Standard promoted fee, things that make you go hmmmm

[ricarmic]

I've noticed a couple things over the last few weeks.

As others have identified my promoted impressions rate is lower than it used to be, not as dramatic or as of a certain day as others have seen.

I've noticed that the "suggested" promoted rate has risen about 50%, so for example, stuff that used to suggest 6.2% is now suggesting 10.1%.

I'm interested to know if others are noticing this incremental change in the suggested rate.

Theoretically this tells me the average promoted rate people are willing to pay is increasing in my categories.

Since mine hasn't changed if that is true it would explain why my impressions is lower now.

Looks like I'll have to try some top secret experiments.

[rocketscollectibles]

Probably comes from the dynamic rate add-on a few weeks ago. If a lot use it, then i guess the suggested rate will increase as everyone is always at the suggested rate. Creating a sort of automated bidding. I took a look and actually most of my items are suggested at 9-14%, which is totally crazy. I don't think it was like this before too. Pretty sure they used to be 3-6%. 

[femmefan1946]

Went to the Times Colonist Annual Book Sale on Saturday, and have been listing ever since.

The suggested PL is up to 9% on Books.

That's on top of a 15% FVF for the category.

[recped]

There are a number of sellers that seem to be willing to pay very high PL rates, on the US boards I read sellers who claim that anything less that 12 or 15% is pointless so they actual use those high rates which of course will increase the suggested rate.

Personally I only use PL on my unsalable junk (what I list on this ID) and I only use the lowest rate. I get a lot of promoted impressions but they have been falling, hard to tell if it's because all impressions are falling or because 2% is too low to get much action anymore. Also could be that on this id I now only have the garbage of the garbage listed!

Of course there are probably major differences between Categories.

[femmefan1946]

I look at PL as a loss leader.

It's been my observation that while I get more Views with PL than without, and while my sales have increased since I started using PL (at the minimum), what sells is not the PL listings, but  a spectrum.

I've said it before, PL seems to bring the boys to the yard, but they are buying banana splits not milkshakes.

Which may be why eBay now offers a version of PL which pays eBay immediately, instead of the seller -friendly original version that only pays them when the item actually sells.

[38e_avenue]

I use other method: all my listings are at 7%, because this is the highest additional cost (makes around 10% with the shipping) I'm able to accept emotionally without regret .....  🙄

[canada-treasure]

I clicked "revise" on Listing A, saw "suggested promoting rate 15%".  I ignored it, did not revise.

Then clicked "revise" on Listing B, saw "suggested promoting rate 12%".  I ignored it, did not revise.

Then clicked "revise" on Listing C, saw "suggested promoting rate 10%".  I ignore it, did not revise.

Then clicked "revise" on Listing D, saw "suggested promoting rate 8%".  I ignored it, did not revise.

Same category listings.

Try it, and you'll see the "Wonder".

[ricarmic]

I'll have to pay attention to that, I have noticed significant differences between subcategories, which makes sense, I haven't noticed a difference in them when I've got multiple items within the same category.

It is interesting that it "gradually" reduced the rate each time.

I don't actually know how it figures out the recommended rate, whether it is "category" specific or "item specific", from your results it looks to me like it is item specific, and it might be comparing the title to other "promoted" titles that would achieve similar results in a search to determine what the specific promoted suggested rate should be.

But if thats the case it is pretty remotely ironic that by chance each title was needing gradually less promoting the way that happened in your scenario.

I'll keep a closer eye out when I'm doing mine now when I have a chance and see what happens in my categories.

I've always ignored the suggested rates anyway, which looks like it is a good thing!

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@ricarmic wrote:

I'll have to pay attention to that, I have noticed significant differences between subcategories, which makes sense, I haven't noticed a difference in them when I've got multiple items within the same category.

It is interesting that it "gradually" reduced the rate each time.

I don't actually know how it figures out the recommended rate, whether it is "category" specific or "item specific", from your results it looks to me like it is item specific, and it might be comparing the title to other "promoted" titles that would achieve similar results in a search to determine what the specific promoted suggested rate should be.

But if thats the case it is pretty remotely ironic that by chance each title was needing gradually less promoting the way that happened in your scenario.

I'll keep a closer eye out when I'm doing mine now when I have a chance and see what happens in my categories.

I've always ignored the suggested rates anyway, which looks like it is a good thing!

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@ricarmic 

2 observations regarding suggested rates.

1. Dreamworld from a majority of sellers perspective
2. Best case scenario from eBay's perspective.

-Lotz

[ricarmic]

Tonight I "sell similared" 5 items all into the same category (from the same category they were auctions that did not sell and I SS's them into BINs), all 5 had the same suggested rate of 10.5% 

So at least if one is sell similaring to the same category, it appears that the suggested rate stays consistent.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@ricarmic wrote:

Tonight I "sell similared" 5 items all into the same category (from the same category they were auctions that did not sell and I SS's them into BINs), all 5 had the same suggested rate of 10.5% 

So at least if one is sell similaring to the same category, it appears that the suggested rate stays consistent.

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@ricarmic 

I've tried a number of tests since promoting became a thing. When I have selected a category (Books, CD's/DVDs, Electronics/Vintage items) to promote and start choosing, on every occasion similar items suggest rates all over the map. To my eye those rates are entirely random (whimsical). They have never been rates I would personally consider. I have tested with higher rates a few time and I've yet to see an uptick in sales.

As for end/sell similar that does not seem to have the same affect as it used. On average, majority of sales are for new listings. Older listings are just getting buried deeper and deeper.

-Lotz

[femmefan1946]

Do you ever put older listings onto your Unsold List for a week or more then use Sell Similar (with or without changes) to relist them, hoping they will qualify as new listings for that tiny bump?

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

Do you ever put older listings onto your Unsold List for a week or more then use Sell Similar (with or without changes) to relist them, hoping they will qualify as new listings for that tiny bump?

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@femmefan1946 

I've tried both ways. Immediately and delayed. No noticeable difference. As of late hasn't seemed to help 1 iota. 

Mostly currently concerned with the mega list of categories that were tinkered with noted in another currently running discussion. I did a random test on a collectable coffee tin I that is of a German brand. The item has been switched to a different category or sub-category (by ebay) with the only choice "Baileys" in the drop down. I would never identify something by an incorrect brand. I was unable to manually enter the correct brand.

How many other listings is eBay corrupting behind the scenes for sellers in similar situations? I found this one only by pure luck. With 1500 + listings it is next to impossible to proof these listings from memory. (As I noted in the other discussion, my listings were accurate when they were created originally.)

Would be interesting to confirm when eBay modifies a listing(by their internal changes) if that could cause it to have a spike in traffic? 

-Lotz

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@ricarmic wrote:

I've noticed a couple things over the last few weeks.

As others have identified my promoted impressions rate is lower than it used to be, not as dramatic or as of a certain day as others have seen.

I've noticed that the "suggested" promoted rate has risen about 50%, so for example, stuff that used to suggest 6.2% is now suggesting 10.1%.

I'm interested to know if others are noticing this incremental change in the suggested rate.

Theoretically this tells me the average promoted rate people are willing to pay is increasing in my categories.

Since mine hasn't changed if that is true it would explain why my impressions is lower now.

Looks like I'll have to try some top secret experiments.

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@ricarmic  Are you still in a state of neverending testing to get an idea what works or doesn't?

Went to create a promotion today and this little blurb appeared.

It even "infers" using 9 % to get to the next level for visibility. I routinely see 12 to 14 suggested. Promoting low (Didn't 1 get bumped to 2) used to get additional traffic and the occasional sale. Just concerned that above noted 5 will turn to 10 which will prosper and multiply up to 15. All in the sake of some sort of consistent sales with only real benefit(to eBay) increased fees. 

-Lotz

[ricarmic]

@lotzofuniquegoodies 

Personally I think they're just saying what we already know, that if your rate isn't high enough then it won't be seen above others.

I haven't changed my rating schedule for some time, I'm trying different experiments at the moment, I only recently realized that standard promoted was available for auctions as well so I'm running experiments there.

I haven't seen my promoted view "curve" change much in the last few weeks. My ability to see how much promted is selling is difficult at the moment given the auction experiments.

I am noticing views are increased in the auctions when using standard promoted, but don't know yet if it increases things enough to make them sell more, better yet. (remember my experiments with the advanced or whatever promoted for auctions didn't yeild significant results).

At lease your world is "cheaper" than mine, all my recommendations are between 9.5 and 10%. I'm also confounded because there are others selling generally different stuff from me that must be using high promoted standard %, as they're always coming up front. Their stuff has high margins but they must be conceding a decent amount of them to the promoted rate.

Anyway I'm not much help. Personally I avoid the "marketing" they provide it is better to pick your rate, run some experiments to see where your stuff falls, I think that will be a better bellweather....but that's just me.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@ricarmic wrote:

@lotzofuniquegoodies 

Personally I think they're just saying what we already know, that if your rate isn't high enough then it won't be seen above others.

I haven't changed my rating schedule for some time, I'm trying different experiments at the moment, I only recently realized that standard promoted was available for auctions as well so I'm running experiments there.

I haven't seen my promoted view "curve" change much in the last few weeks. My ability to see how much promted is selling is difficult at the moment given the auction experiments.

I am noticing views are increased in the auctions when using standard promoted, but don't know yet if it increases things enough to make them sell more, better yet. (remember my experiments with the advanced or whatever promoted for auctions didn't yeild significant results).

At lease your world is "cheaper" than mine, all my recommendations are between 9.5 and 10%. I'm also confounded because there are others selling generally different stuff from me that must be using high promoted standard %, as they're always coming up front. Their stuff has high margins but they must be conceding a decent amount of them to the promoted rate.

Anyway I'm not much help. Personally I avoid the "marketing" they provide it is better to pick your rate, run some experiments to see where your stuff falls, I think that will be a better bellweather....but that's just me.

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Long story short...My impression, because listing consistently seems to be the only tool in the tool box to generate sales, its caused ebay to be over run with listings. Just too much of everything, making for a needle in a haystack situation. It would be nice if a seller could have ALL their available listings show up first but that is next to impossible. With so many similar titles everyone can't be first. The only possible way to be up there all the time is to be a high status seller with the margins to get away with the higher promotion fees. 

Also doesn't help when you get a buyer to your listing and the first thing they see is something promoted that's cheaper. Becomes a case of off to that choice vs hanging around and doing a deep dive on your items. This may not be the case in every situation, but maybe in a good number of them. (or those cases where a seller concentrates on 1 specific category.)

-Lotz

[ricarmic]

I took a longer look at my impressions "curve" this morning and I'm missing the "weekend bump" that I usually see, my curve is more like a "line" now on both sites, but more pronounced on .COM.

Not sure what would cause that, unless others are doing targeted promoted campaigns on the weekend only and across both sites, which seems unlikely.

I'll watch for a couple weeks to see if it persists.

PS I was going to add some items to one of the campaigns and while doing so I noticed it's regularly recommending 16 to 20% now....

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@ricarmic wrote:

I took a longer look at my impressions "curve" this morning and I'm missing the "weekend bump" that I usually see, my curve is more like a "line" now on both sites, but more pronounced on .COM.

Not sure what would cause that, unless others are doing targeted promoted campaigns on the weekend only and across both sites, which seems unlikely.

I'll watch for a couple weeks to see if it persists.

PS I was going to add some items to one of the campaigns and while doing so I noticed it's regularly recommending 16 to 20% now....

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Basically if you promote low you have a limited chance at getting seen. This is causing promo rates to be on a steady increase. (eBay's version of one up personship.) This has become a no win situation, especially for smaller sellers unless they are selling 1 of a kind type items. It's the 15th of the month. Up to grand total of 3 sales. All 3 sales were the very limited one of a kind type items. In looking at my woohoo 10 sales for last month very similar results. 

-Lotz

[triber]

Yes, I do that femmefan, most of my listing are low cost and not worth putting high promotion fees.

[ricarmic]

My first auction standard promotion experiments have completed, I took the lazy way out and just used the recommended percentages which were all in the 9 to 10% range.

I have to give credit that the impression counts were dramatically higher. Items had been running very low counts in the often ZERO or 1 range, with the standard promotion the views were sometimes as high as 4 or 5 but some remained 0 or 1 although to be fair those may suffer from the "too similar" item specifics and therefore punished low visibility as we heard about some time ago in a blog in a different thread.

Aside from the incrased impressions, sales were ZERO so the jury remains out. Good news is that the cost was zero.

I'll run the experiment for a while and see if anything remarkable happens longer term.