defects - my turn

I gather that if a person buys multiple items and leaves low ratings for every one, each will count as a defect. So 3 items, 3 defects instead of 1 defect for the transaction.

 

All it would take is 1 buyer buying a whole slug of stuff and you could be below standard in no time.

 

Any one selling what I sell, check my feedback and you can find out who this was. Has done same to other sellers. Put him on your BBL

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defects - my turn

My understanding is that the max is one defect per transaction.

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defects - my turn

I seem to have spent half my time over the past few months studying the stupid Spring Seller Update and asking questions at the Wed. board hours, so I think I can give you an explanation.  As usual, it isn't quite as simple or straightforward as you think (or as Mr. Elmwood recalls).  It depends on the type of listings involved. 

 

Here's the definition (verbatim) from the SSU: 

 

'What is considered a transaction?

 

A transaction is a purchase from a listing.  If a buyer purchases two or more identical items from the same multi-quantity listing, or purchases the same items in different variations such as color or size from the same multi-variation listing, that is considered one transaction.  If a buyer purchases items from four different listings from the same seller and combines them into one order, that would be considered as four transactions.  Note that the defect rate will not affect your performance rating until you have a transaction with a defect from 8 different buyers (5 different buyers to affect your Top Rated Seller status)." 

 

So, if your buyer purchased items from 3 separate listings, you'll get 3 defects.  However, the total effective defects that buyer will generate in terms of your performance rating will only be 1.  

 

Keep in mind that your Dashboard will display all defects from all buyers, not the net effect on your performance rating.  However, the actual distribution of those defects may be important.  For example, you can only have a maximum of 5% defect rate (2% for TRS) in any given defect category, so let's say you accumulate more neutral and negative FB than low ship time DSRs (or other DSRs), you'll hit that 5% (or 2%) ceiling in that category pretty quickly, and it could affect your seller status.  

 

Nonetheless, since each transaction only counts once toward the defect rate regardless of the number of defects associated with it, I'm still not clear how (or where) eBay places that defect.  If, for instance, a buyer gives you negative FB, low Item as Described DSRs and low ship time DSRs, on which of the three categories does that one defect get chalked up?  Another question for next Wed. I suppose...

 

BTW, I'm sorry to hear about your experience.  It doesn't take much these days to affect a seller, and I think eBay has turned us all into fearful, bean-counting defect-dodgers.  Woman Sad

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defects - my turn


@rose-dee wrote:

I seem to have spent half my time over the past few months studying the stupid Spring Seller Update and asking questions at the Wed. board hours, so I think I can give you an explanation.  As usual, it isn't quite as simple or straightforward as you think (or as Mr. Elmwood recalls).  It depends on the type of listings involved. 

 

Here's the definition (verbatim) from the SSU: 

 

'What is considered a transaction?

 

A transaction is a purchase from a listing.  If a buyer purchases two or more identical items from the same multi-quantity listing, or purchases the same items in different variations such as color or size from the same multi-variation listing, that is considered one transaction.  If a buyer purchases items from four different listings from the same seller and combines them into one order, that would be considered as four transactions.  Note that the defect rate will not affect your performance rating until you have a transaction with a defect from 8 different buyers (5 different buyers to affect your Top Rated Seller status)." 

 

So, if your buyer purchased items from 3 separate listings, you'll get 3 defects.  However, the total effective defects that buyer will generate in terms of your performance rating will only be 1.  

 

Keep in mind that your Dashboard will display all defects from all buyers, not the net effect on your performance rating.  However, the actual distribution of those defects may be important.  For example, you can only have a maximum of 5% defect rate (2% for TRS) in any given defect category, so let's say you accumulate more neutral and negative FB than low ship time DSRs (or other DSRs), you'll hit that 5% (or 2%) ceiling in that category pretty quickly, and it could affect your seller status.  

 

Nonetheless, since each transaction only counts once toward the defect rate regardless of the number of defects associated with it, I'm still not clear how (or where) eBay places that defect.  If, for instance, a buyer gives you negative FB, low Item as Described DSRs and low ship time DSRs, on which of the three categories does that one defect get chalked up?  Another question for next Wed. I suppose...

 

BTW, I'm sorry to hear about your experience.  It doesn't take much these days to affect a seller, and I think eBay has turned us all into fearful, bean-counting defect-dodgers.  Woman Sad


Except that buyers are being steered to email communication instead of defect generating contact. The last five refunds, in a row, were outside the defect system. I got to choose "blame the buyer" and came away with no defects. Got a neg today. Well, that is one defect out of a potential six, out of a recent sales volume of several hundred.

 

Buyer opted to leave a neg for a part that arrived broken. Buyer then wrote me and said that it arrived broken and provided pictures.

 

Good for you.

 

I quoted eBay saying that buyer should try to "work it out with the seller" prior to leaving FB. I apologized for the sale gone bad, and said nothing else. Well, I also said that the neg signaled the end of the transaction.

 

My bad for poor packing, but, that is the first broken part in about 3500 sales. Buyer's bad for not letting me know. I left him with the ball in his court.

 

I have already received my one defect, so, I cannot be hurt any more on this transaction.

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defects - my turn

If they leave positive and ding stars with no communication prior, you can't go outside the defect system. It is too late.

 

I have reported him to Ebay and will see what they will do, but not holding my breath or life may be even shorter

 

You were fortunate you could blame the sellers rightly or wrongly, but not all of us are left with that option

 

 

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defects - my turn

There is no "defect categories" since they went the the current defect scheme.   Getting 2% or the minimum to be affected all in shipping time is the same as 1 defect under each criteria totaling 2% of transactions or the minimum to be affected.

 

5 from the same buyer only count as 1 for very small sellers who can rely on the "5 different buyers to be affected".  A larger seller who exceeds that 5 or 8 minimum would have all 5 count towards the 2% to lose trs or 5% to be below standard and  on the way to suspension

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defects - my turn


mr.elmwood wrote
Buyer opted to leave a neg for a part that arrived broken. Buyer then wrote me and said that it arrived broken and provided pictures.

I quoted eBay saying that buyer should try to "work it out with the seller" prior to leaving FB. I apologized for the sale gone bad, and said nothing else. Well, I also said that the neg signaled the end of the transaction.

My bad for poor packing, but, that is the first broken part in about 3500 sales. Buyer's bad for not letting me know. I left him with the ball in his court.

I have already received my one defect, so, I cannot be hurt any more on this transaction.


It blows me away when a buyer leaves a negative (and to a lesser extent a neutral) without contacting the seller first.  Do they not look at the seller's feedback first, I mean if that seller has virtually perfect feedback you can make the assumption they will work with you to a satisfactory end, but to then expect help in rectifying the disappointing part of the sale...,  I guess they don't  realize they've cut off their nose to spite their face.

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defects - my turn


@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

There is no "defect categories" since they went the the current defect scheme.   Getting 2% or the minimum to be affected all in shipping time is the same as 1 defect under each criteria totaling 2% of transactions or the minimum to be affected.

 

Actually, you misunderstood my point - I think a seller does have to be concerned about the distribution of defects, because some are more likely to repeat in future (and push the seller over the 2%/5% limit) than others.  There are in fact 7 defect categories (i.e. 7 possible areas that can generate a defect), as described by eBay:

 

The defect rate is simply the percentage of a seller's successful transactions that have one or more of the following transaction-related defects, the top predictors that a buyer will leave eBay or buy less:

  • Detailed seller rating of 1, 2 or 3 for item as described
  • Detailed seller rating of 1 for shipping time
  • Negative or neutral feedback
  • Return initiated for a reason that indicates the item was not as described
  • eBay Money Back Guarantee (previously known as eBay Buyer Protection) or PayPal Purchase Protection case opened for an item not received or an item not as described
  • Seller-cancelled transactions 

So, for example, if one buyer purchases 6 separately listed items at once and decides to leave negative FB on one, neutral on another, low as described DSR on one, and low shipping time DSRs on three, the seller will have 6 'defective' transactions, 3 of which will be under the shipping time DSR category.  If "shipping time" is a category or area where that seller has the most difficulty -- let's say he/she is in a rural area or disabled -- then it does matter if the next complaint (from another buyer) comes from that particular category.  In other words, defects tend to find the weakest spots.  And those spots, in my view, tend to be things that small sellers really have trouble doing much about. 

 

Granted, the seller's overall status shouldn't be affected (according to eBay) until he/she has 5 (8) separate buyers causing defects, but I'm not sure eBay has ever explained precisely how the defect rates (2%/5%) impact seller status, i.e. what exactly happens when and at what level.  I doubt they want to make that part of the process public.  It's clear that once you hit the overall 2%/5% ceiling, something will happen, but exactly what is another question completely.

 

"5 from the same buyer only count as 1 for very small sellers who can rely on the "5 different buyers to be affected".  A larger seller who exceeds that 5 or 8 minimum would have all 5 count towards the 2% to lose trs or 5% to be below standard and  on the way to suspension"

While it's true that 5 from the same buyer only count as 1, I disagree that that constitutes any special advantage for small sellers (or any special disadvantage for larger ones).  I think it's far easier for a small volume seller to be affected by defects than a seller with a much higher volume who can rely on a 3-month review cycle to "cleanse" bad history, as opposed to having all the problems dragging like an anchor for 12 months. 

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defects - my turn


@mr.elmwood wrote:

"Except that buyers are being steered to email communication instead of defect generating contact."

_____________________________________________________________________________________

 

You're right there of course.  One small bone that eBay decided to throw us recently -- I recall this autumn that they said the internal messaging "Ask a Seller" process was being revised specifically for that reason.

 

I have a feeling there was so much outrage from U.S. sellers in particular over receiving defects for having contact from buyers that eBay finally had to do something about it.  Squeaky wheel theory? Woman Wink

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defects - my turn

Smallest seller, 100 transactions a year is protected until 5 (would lose TRS).  That is 5% defect rate allowed, or 8% to be in real trouble.  A big seller will lose trs at 2% or be in real trouble at 5%.  The really small time sellers get a higher % defective before negatively affected.  The "minimum 5  or 8 different buyers before affected" is a significant advantage to small volume sellers

 

The defect "categories" show a seller where they are getting defects, but make no difference at all to the punishment.  1 defect in 5 categories=5 defects in one category, or any other combination.  Other then unresolved cases.  The old way punished sellers based on max defects per category.  The new way went to overall defects, thats why many lost trs with the change

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defects - my turn


@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

Smallest seller, 100 transactions a year is protected until 5 (would lose TRS).  That is 5% defect rate allowed, or 8% to be in real trouble.  A big seller will lose trs at 2% or be in real trouble at 5%.  The really small time sellers get a higher % defective before negatively affected.  The "minimum 5  or 8 different buyers before affected" is a significant advantage to small volume sellers

 

Still, larger sellers (400+/mo.) can slough off those defects every 3 months, i.e. 4 times a year, thus escaping the effects if they learn some lessons.  As I'm sure you know, eBay also allows a grace period for longer-term TRS sellers anyway.  That grace period is a much bigger advantage to large volume sellers because TRS volume/dollar requirements are easier to maintain with a bigger turnover.  Lastly, I would say that experienced, high-volume sellers should, by dint of experience, be better able to avoid defects in the first place.  It seems to me the playing field is tilted in favour of the "big guys" when you look at all the parameters. 

 

The defect "categories" show a seller where they are getting defects, but make no difference at all to the punishment.  1 defect in 5 categories=5 defects in one category, or any other combination.  Other then unresolved cases.  The old way punished sellers based on max defects per category.  The new way went to overall defects, thats why many lost trs with the change.

 

It's true that the defect types make no difference to the ultimate punishment, but as I said, there are types of defects that are much easier for small sellers to fall prey to, through no fault of their own.  In addition, don't forget that are now new ways to attract defects that didn't exist previously -- neutral FB, opened cases, etc. So what eBay gave with one hand, they took away with another, as usual. 

 

If you don't believe me about eBay's leaning toward giving advantages and a leg up to its larger sellers, just take a look at the comment that Rodney let slip a few Wed. discussion boards ago.  I think he may have regretted later saying out loud that eBay's changing policies were intended to benefit the biggest sellers, but there it is.

 

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defects - my turn


@decal-fx wrote:

mr.elmwood wrote
Buyer opted to leave a neg for a part that arrived broken. Buyer then wrote me and said that it arrived broken and provided pictures.

I quoted eBay saying that buyer should try to "work it out with the seller" prior to leaving FB. I apologized for the sale gone bad, and said nothing else. Well, I also said that the neg signaled the end of the transaction.

My bad for poor packing, but, that is the first broken part in about 3500 sales. Buyer's bad for not letting me know. I left him with the ball in his court.

I have already received my one defect, so, I cannot be hurt any more on this transaction.


It blows me away when a buyer leaves a negative (and to a lesser extent a neutral) without contacting the seller first.  Do they not look at the seller's feedback first, I mean if that seller has virtually perfect feedback you can make the assumption they will work with you to a satisfactory end, but to then expect help in rectifying the disappointing part of the sale...,  I guess they don't  realize they've cut off their nose to spite their face.


Pretty much what I was thinking.

 

So, now, the buyer has a broken part, has slammed me, and wants what? My cooperation? Hum? I think that ship sailed and sank in the harbour.

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Message 12 of 16
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defects - my turn

He can file an INAD if time permits and you will probably pay return shipping as well. Ebay has said before, feedback means nothing in an INAD case

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defects - my turn

Thank you Mr Cheerful. This guy is not that smart.
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Message 14 of 16
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defects - my turn

If the buyer changes their negative feedback to positive, would that not remove the defect? I'm not sure if they can change their DSRs after they leave them on the assumption they left them in the first place....but I am interested to know if changing the neg to a positive removes the defect - does anyone know?
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defects - my turn

If the buyer revises their feedback the defect stays. If ebay revises or removes it, the defect goes away.

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