eBay

esclyons · ‎07-31-2021

A seller can do everything right and still be wrong.. And i don't want to hear don't sell anything you can't afford to lose..

so a buyer buys an item, and tracking shows they have received the item, then 5 days the buyer later opens a dispute saying transaction not recognized , then ebay asks you to input tracking number.. well ebay already has that information..

So you have 2 choices ...enter your tracking number again + 20$, or don't challenge it, and refund in whole..

I am not the payment provider so i can't see if the name on the credit card is the same as the person buying the item.

ebay is going to say it is up to the financial provider to determine if i win or lose.. I have no say in it other than a tracking number.. they don't ask to see the messages i have exchanged with the buyer, nor do they care..

ebay needs to have adyen be more like Paypal,, paypal had our back on chargebacks..

Also with a charge back, the buyer isn't disputing that they received the item, they are disputing that they don't recognize the charge..

So why aren't they required to return the item before the dispute is found in their favor.

and why do i have to pay ebay 20$ for them to do their job, when i lose the dispute, even though i did everything right..

marnotom! · ‎07-31-2021

@esclyons wrote:

Also with a charge back, the buyer isn't disputing that they received the item, they are disputing that they don't recognize the charge..

So why aren't they required to return the item before the dispute is found in their favor.

You answered your own question earlier. In the case of a "unrecognized charge" dispute, the person filing the charge may not be the person on record as purchasing the item. Somebody else, somewhere else may have used the card to purchase your item.

Where does the twenty dollar charge come in for providing the tracking number? Am I misunderstanding your post?

esclyons · ‎07-31-2021

by re entering the tracking number i am disputing the dispute. so if i lose i will be charged a 20$ fee..

There is no where to enter the messages that the buyer has received the item and is very happy with it..

and as i said there is no way for a seller to confirm, that the name on the card, is the same as the address we ship to.. so this needs to fall back on the payment provider..

marnotom! · ‎07-31-2021

I've never had to deal with an "unrecognized charge" dispute, but my understanding is that PayPal wouldn't be able to use communication from the buyer as any sort of useful evidence to present to the card issuer in question. They may accept it to make the seller feel better, but if the address for the transaction doesn't match the one that the item was shipped to, the seller is not going to prevail in the case.

From what I can see, the conditions for protection that a seller has in the event of an UC dispute made through Managed Payments is no different than PayPal's. The difference seems to be in the execution of the dispute, where with MP the seller is left to wait for the credit card issuer's ruling while with PayPal, if the seller ticks off all the right boxes in the conditions for protection, PayPal will continue to process the dispute with the card issuer "behind the scenes" after PayPal reassures the seller that everything's good. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-protections?id=4345#section3

hlmacdon · ‎07-31-2021

I've had zero problems with paypal covering unauthorized charge disputes and have never lost one. Paypal will accept and look at seller provided evidence whereas ebay has stated on the US forums they can't be bothered investing IT resources at the moment to enable sellers to enter more evidence beyond a tracking number. A lot of sellers have reported issues with ebay simply dumping the chargeback on their laps.

The thing here that as sellers we have zero input on the risk management side of what Ayden decides to allow for buyer payments so I can certainly understand why sellers are annoyed with ebay choosing to run this by algorithm and effectively not allow sellers to challenge a chargeback.

esclyons · ‎07-31-2021

this is the point i am trying to make, payment is confirmed, and ebay says ship it..

So i do, and have tracking showing delivery, Yet will lose a dispute everytime, even following ebay's policy..

The one who accepted the payment should be responsible at the end of the day.. And that is not me.

pjcdn2005 · ‎07-31-2021

Have you lost a not recognized dispute before? According to eBay they do protect a seller for a not recognized charge dispute when the seller has tracking showing delivery. It's stated in the link that marnotom posted under 'See more.....'

For some reason ebay doesn't always automatically protect the seller when this happens but I have read about sellers who appealed and won. You shouldn't have to appeal but that's better than an automatic lose.

femmefan1946 · ‎07-31-2021

For those who are nervous of opening links this seems to be the applicable policy.

When a buyer reports that they don't recognize the transaction:

You provided proof of delivery that included the following:
- The tracking number provided by the shipping company uploaded to the site by the date indicated in the payment dispute notification email or resolution center;
- A delivery status of "delivered";
- Date of delivery;
- The recipient's address, showing at least the city/county or postcode (or international equivalent) that matches the address displayed on the Order details page; and
- Proof of signature confirmation, uploaded as an image, if the order has a total cost (including shipping and taxes) of $750 or more.

marnotom! · ‎08-01-2021

@hlmacdon wrote:

I've had zero problems with paypal covering unauthorized charge disputes and have never lost one. Paypal will accept and look at seller provided evidence whereas ebay has stated on the US forums they can't be bothered investing IT resources at the moment to enable sellers to enter more evidence beyond a tracking number. A lot of sellers have reported issues with ebay simply dumping the chargeback on their laps.

Now, is this "seller provided evidence" evidence that that PayPal has requested on behalf of the credit card issuer processing the chargeback, or is this evidence that the seller has taken upon themselves to provide to PayPal? The first scenario makes sense, the second one doesn't. PayPal has a chargeback protection policy and it's up to PayPal to adhere to it when going to bat on the seller's behalf for a chargeback and not have to extract additional information from the seller unnecessarily, just as it should be up to eBay/Adyen to do the same. My guess is that if these sellers are getting chargebacks dumped in their laps even if they've ticked off all the correct boxes for protection against "unrecognized charge" for sales made through Managed Payments, then we're looking at another instance of poorly trained MP reps.

marnotom! · ‎08-01-2021

@esclyons wrote:

So i do, and have tracking showing delivery, Yet will lose a dispute everytime, even following ebay's policy..

I'm not following you to your conclusion that you will "lose a dispute everytime" you have one. Could you clarify your train of thought, please?

Backing up your train a bit, in the event of an "unauthorized charge" dispute, PayPal and eBay/Adyen are not looking so much for "tracking showing delivery" in this sort of dispute so much as they're looking for evidence that the item was shipped to the address on the transaction details page. That's why PayPal is also willing to consider proof of shipment to that address, even though in many cases that's impossible to obtain from online-viewable tracking.

And that's also why an email/eBay message from the buyer stating that they received it likely won't cut the mustard as a defence against the dispute. And why should it matter, really, if you've followed the chargeback protection policy steps? If eBay/Adyen is requesting additional information from you, it's because the credit card issuer wants it from them, but in theory, it shouldn't make any difference to how "protected" you are against the chargeback.

marnotom! · ‎08-01-2021

@marnotom! wrote:

My guess is that if these sellers are getting chargebacks dumped in their laps even if they've ticked off all the correct boxes for protection against "unrecognized charge" for sales made through Managed Payments, then we're looking at another instance of poorly trained MP reps.

Poking around the .com boards, it appears that it's the appeal process that invokes the chargeback protection, as @pjcdn2005 suggested in message 7. Not as user-friendly as PayPal, but just a more cumbersome way of accomplishing the same thing, I suppose. As Managed Payments is a work in progress, let's hope the seller protection process evolves.

mr.special-editions · ‎08-18-2021

My friend the days of PayPal protection are gone.

If you want to sell right now you are at greater risk for various reasons. First off online fraud is at an all time high, it has been since Covid started. Second MP is not ready and eBay's customer service is overwhelmed.

Third all that should matter is that you are profiting, if you are suffering losses so great that your profits are wiped out and you are bleeding cash, take a break or find a way to 'deter' people from doing this to you and make sure you aren't doing anything incorrectly.

PRO TIP: One simple, free and extremely effective deterrent is using Canada Post Snap Ship and selecting 'Card for Pickup' the item goes to the post office, you still qualify for seller protection because you shipped to their address (signature items go to the PO under normal circumstances when someone is not home) all post offices or postal outlets are required by law to have video surveillance, the buyer also needs to show government issued photo ID with an address that matches the parcel, lastly having the item carded usually speeds up transit time. You can argue it's an inconvenience for your buyers. I argue that it is not, honest buyers would rather take the small inconvenience of picking up their item from a safe place rather than not receiving what they purchased and having to file an eBay claim and or dispute. If a buyer complains higher them an uber!

You're welcome!

esclyons · ‎08-18-2021

doesn't matter if they card for pick up or not, if the buyer says they don't recognize the transaction, you are done, they aren't saying they didn't get the item.. Big difference..

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-18-2021

As I said before, you are not 'done' if the buyer doesn't recognize the transaction. ebay bascially has the same protection that Paypal did for what they called unauthorized purchases. The main difference is that while PP required proof of delivery or proof of shipment to the address given with payment, ebay only accepts proof of shipment. If you have that you should win although it may take some time. I believe that ebay waits for the bank to decide and then covers the seller regardless of the bank's decision. If you don't win and you do have delivery confirmation proving delivery, then you should appeal.

https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/selling-policies/payment-dispute-seller-protections?id=5293&st=12&...

mr.special-editions · ‎08-18-2021

@esclyons wrote:
doesn't matter if they card for pick up or not, if the buyer says they don't recognize the transaction, you are done, they aren't saying they didn't get the item.. Big difference..

Correct.

You don't know why the disputes are being filed, some may be legitimate some may be fraud.

Consider these two scenarios.

1) You purchase an item online and it is delivered to your home or left in your community mailbox, apartment box etc.

2) You purchase an item online and it is delivered to a post office or postal outlet. You walk into the location, there's video surveillance. People see you, the postal clerk sees you, you have to show government issued photo ID with an address matching the parcel and possibly sign for it.

In what scenario are you more likely to first remember the transaction and second if you are fraudulently filing payment disputes in what scenario is the far better option for you to get away with it?