Comments about the Global Shipping Program

[kalvin@ebay.com]

Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here. 

A few questions to get the ball rolling:

• What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
• Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
• What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
• How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Please try & keep the comments constructive 🙂

If you have any questions about the program, please post them here.

[marnotom!]

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@lumbercanada wrote:

You looked at all the listing give me a break...I know all about TAXES i am NOT talking about TAXES. IMPORT CHARGES which is an added CHARGE ON TOP OF THE TAX!!

Maybe you should look at the CBSA website and get a clue! GSP IS a Scam and they are charging illegal fees period on exempt goods!

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Or I could look at the GSP terms and conditions for buyers and get a better clue.  From Section 3(b), subsection ii:

"Import charges": this Program Fee consists of charges associated with the customs service described above and is comprised of the following variable amounts: sales, goods and services, and value added taxes, duties, tariffs, excise taxes, and other amounts assessed or levied by any government authority in connection with the importation of goods into the applicable country of importation (but excluding income taxes) ("Commodity taxes"); third party brokerage fees (including advancement and disbursement charges and customs brokers handling and filing fees); penalties (but excluding any customs duties, taxes, surcharges, fines, penalties, or other charges which may be imposed on you by customs or tax officials after a GSP Item has successfully cleared customs and been delivered to, or made available for pickup at, the delivery address that you specify); classification charges associated with the assignment of a Harmonized System ("HS") classification code; charges for export compliance screening and verification and the assignment of an Export Control Classification Number (ECCN); and operational expenses associated with short-term loss recovery and the management of variances between the quoted Import charges and actual costs.

Nowhere on a listing page are "import charges" described as strictly "taxes" and/or "duty," although they may make up a good portion of the total import charges.  There's other stuff thrown in there as well.  You may well question how legitimate those additional charges are, but remember that Pitney Bowes--or whoever is contracted out to process a GSP item on its behalf--isn't a charity; it's a business and has to pay its own way.

For what it's worth, yesterday I bought a Smartphone (on my regular eBay ID which doesn't work on the discussion boards--long story) that had import charges that came to less than the PST and GST I'd pay on it if I bought it for the same price locally.

[pierrelebel]

"Pretty good making a profit on what seems to be about a $5 charge on average."

At first sight, PB margins ($4/$5 on most transactions under $100) seem to be rather small for the service they provide. 

I see two possibilities:

1) they will break even or even lose some money for the first few years of the program to establish it and raise their fees in subsequent years or add a fee for the sellers benefiting from the program

2) they get a percentage (rebate) from the carriers moving parcels from their distribution centre to buyers in addition to the $4/$5 fee charged to buyers.

If you take the time to read this thread from the beginning, it amazes me how many posters come here to rant about some aspect of the program and, when challenged to cite a specific example of their complaint, they do not.  There has been so much confusion about taxes/duty and NAFTA. I wish folks would take the time to learn instead of simply complaining.  The information is there.

As stated so many times before, GSP is a bad program for most purchases by Canadian buyers as currently formulated.  I do not need to repeat the list of all the problems or the solutions that have been offered.

[afantiques]

Is PB not worrying about fake Item Not Recieved claims?

I doubt it. Statistically it would simpler to lump all lost item claims in together and insure agains that loss.

False INR claims are a constant bogeyman under the bed for ebay sellers, yet they can be dealt with cheaply and easily in the same way that all other loss claims are, by calculating the chances of any form of loss and thus working out the risk premium suitable to cover it.

The normal transit insurers rate of about 1% (including their costs and profits) would seem to argue that if this includes all losses, both genuine and fake, fake claims must constitute substantially less than 1% of all items sent, and are therefore no more than a biting tick on the leg of the business elephant, an irritation too small to worry about and one undeserving of the millions of posts devoted to the dread false INR claim.

Therefore the answer is, 'No,  PB are not concerned about false INR claims, in the same way any sensible seller is not troubled by them.'

[i*m-still-here]

People are posting here because they're angry with the GSP.

Most can't even pinpoint why they're upset and so they complain about the first thing that strikes them as "off."

All the logic in the world won't change that.

No one is interested in explanations about why their posts are "incorrect."

In fact, most never bother to read the endless rebuttals telling them why they are "wrong" to be upset with the GSP.

All they know or care about is that the GSP is ruining their eBay shopping experience and no amount of logic is going to change that.

In fact, all it does is create more upset.  Isn't that obvious by now?

[walker0017]

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I*m-still-here wrote:

People are posting here because they're angry with the GSP.

Most can't even pinpoint why they're upset and so they complain about the first thing that strikes them as "off."

All the logic in the world won't change that.

No one is interested in explanations about why their posts are "incorrect."

In fact, most never bother to read the endless rebuttals telling them why they are "wrong" to be upset with the GSP.

All they know or care about is that the GSP is ruining their eBay shopping experience and no amount of logic is going to change that.

In fact, all it does is create more upset.  Isn't that obvious by now?

 _______________________________________________________________________________________________________

I think that people are posting their rants here because they are upset ultimately paying more for an item than what they should be and are describing using some rather colorful metaphors and the numbers of upset buyers are increasing.

The average Canadian has no problem paying taxes or duty on legitimate items when asked by the CBSA as we are use to the various levels of government demanding a piece of our action but we tend to get a bit upset when a third party does it arbitrarily using a very poorly designed program that more often than not overcharges on their version of assessed duty and taxes.

For some who think that this program is illegal, unfortunately it is all too legal, but no matter people should be able to rant at this without worrying about some minor facts. Sooner or later eBay has to get the message that to not make positive changes to this GSP will cost them sales.  🙂

[marnotom!]

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@walker0017 wrote:

The average Canadian has no problem paying taxes or duty on legitimate items when asked by the CBSA as we are use to the various levels of government demanding a piece of our action but we tend to get a bit upset when a third party does it arbitrarily using a very poorly designed program that more often than not overcharges on their version of assessed duty and taxes.

For some who think that this program is illegal, unfortunately it is all too legal, but no matter people should be able to rant at this without worrying about some minor facts. Sooner or later eBay has to get the message that to not make positive changes to this GSP will cost them sales.  🙂

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Arbitrarily?  While there's certainly been more than a few glitches, the GSP seems to mostly calculate taxes and duty based on the information provided by the seller, including the category of the item, with the possible exception of items such as maple syrup.  😉

There does seem to be a formula that is used to calculate duty.  The problem with it is that it's based on the "umbrella" category for the item and not its subcategory, which can be a completely different kettle of fish.  For example, hearing aids are lumped into the same umbrella category as false eyelashes, which means that both are subject to the same formula of taxes and duty even though hearing aids are exempt from these charges.

As for your point about sales, international sales were pretty much a drop in the bucket for most U.S. sellers on eBay prior to the GSP and I doubt that that situation has changed drastically for the better or for the worse since the GSP was introduced.  I think the suits at eBay.com would be more concerned if domestic sales started going on a downward spiral, quite honestly.

[walker0017]

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Marnotom! wrote:

Arbitrarily?  While there's certainly been more than a few glitches, the GSP seems to mostly calculate taxes and duty based on the information provided by the seller, including the category of the item, with the possible exception of items such as maple syrup.  

There does seem to be a formula that is used to calculate duty.  The problem with it is that it's based on the "umbrella" category for the item and not its subcategory, which can be a completely different kettle of fish.  For example, hearing aids are lumped into the same umbrella category as false eyelashes, which means that both are subject to the same formula of taxes and duty even though hearing aids are exempt from these charges.

As for your point about sales, international sales were pretty much a drop in the bucket for most U.S. sellers on eBay prior to the GSP and I doubt that that situation has changed drastically for the better or for the worse since the GSP was introduced.  I think the suits at eBay.com would be more concerned if domestic sales started going on a downward spiral, quite honestly.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

To me arbitrarily means that eBay had decided how the program will run and the fees assessed without really thinking things through or even consulting the sellers either in the US or abroad.

A lot of multinational companies that have international sales do not have these issues with taxes, duties and tariffs being assessed correctly because they know exactly what products they are selling and therefore know to the penny what and or when to charge this which results in an invoice that is correct and very fair and reasonable.

So far eBay instead of doing this properly has dumped it upon the sellers, just looking at how their wording of the GSP T&C as evidence that bears this out .

In my opinion, since eBay created the GSP the responsibility for correctly administering it is their responsibility not the sellers because everything passes through their central warehouse and they are the authors and enforcers of the program and so far they are failing badly.

With all the complaints that have been made it is clear that eBay has not fulfilled this except to point to seller inexperience in describing their merchandise for correct interpretation of assessed duties and tariffs, but even with that there have been incorrect duties and tariffs levied if the various posts are to be believed. 

As a buyer I might not have worded this correctly but I hope you do you understand the point I am trying to make. 🙂

[marnotom!]

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@walker0017 wrote:

To me arbitrarily means that eBay had decided how the program will run and the fees assessed without really thinking things through or even consulting the sellers either in the US or abroad.

A lot of multinational companies that have international sales do not have these issues with taxes, duties and tariffs being assessed correctly because they know exactly what products they are selling and therefore know to the penny what and or when to charge this which results in an invoice that is correct and very fair and reasonable.

So far eBay instead of doing this properly has dumped it upon the sellers, just looking at how their wording of the GSP T&C as evidence that bears this out .

In my opinion, since eBay created the GSP the responsibility for correctly administering it is their responsibility not the sellers because everything passes through their central warehouse and they are the authors and enforcers of the program and so far they are failing badly.

With all the complaints that have been made it is clear that eBay has not fulfilled this except to point to seller inexperience in describing their merchandise for correct interpretation of assessed duties and tariffs, but even with that there have been incorrect duties and tariffs levied if the various posts are to be believed. 

As a buyer I might not have worded this correctly but I hope you do you understand the point I am trying to make. 🙂

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It's a bit nit-picky, but eBay doesn't actually administer the Global Shipping Program.  eBay gives it a home and ultimately bears the brunt of whatever nonsense the program is responsible for, but it's actually the brainchild of Pitney Bowes, Inc. and is adminstered and thoroughly sub-contracted out by PBI.

When you have a business whose traditional business has been postage and give that business a new mandate that has little if nothing to do with its core business, you're not likely going to see it get much right unless they've been wildly successful in the headhunting department.

While I'm sure a GSP fire has been lit under eBay's derriere, it's not a raging inferno by any stretch, largely because eBay has so much less to lose than PBI does in this venture.  Perhaps a bit of customer goodwill, but perhaps somebody sees the program as a way to eliminate some of the less desirable sellers and buyers from the site.

Back to your points about taxes and duty, in all cases that I can recall where I've seen hints of what appears to be duty incorrectly or unnecessarily charged on a NAFTA-manufactured item, there has been no country of manufacture stated in the "item specifics" portion of the listing.  I suspect that if sellers knew that they were enrolled in the GSP in the first place and followed the program rules--which are pretty simply stated in the terms and conditions for sellers--there would be far fewer of these sorts of problems.

[kxeron]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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@lumbercanada wrote:

You looked at all the listing give me a break...I know all about TAXES i am NOT talking about TAXES. IMPORT CHARGES which is an added CHARGE ON TOP OF THE TAX!!

Maybe you should look at the CBSA website and get a clue! GSP IS a Scam and they are charging illegal fees period on exempt goods!

---

Or I could look at the GSP terms and conditions for buyers and get a better clue.  From Section 3(b), subsection ii:

"Import charges": this Program Fee consists of charges associated with the customs service described above and is comprised of the following variable amounts: sales, goods and services, and value added taxes, duties, tariffs, excise taxes, and other amounts assessed or levied by any government authority in connection with the importation of goods into the applicable country of importation (but excluding income taxes) ("Commodity taxes"); third party brokerage fees (including advancement and disbursement charges and customs brokers handling and filing fees); penalties (but excluding any customs duties, taxes, surcharges, fines, penalties, or other charges which may be imposed on you by customs or tax officials after a GSP Item has successfully cleared customs and been delivered to, or made available for pickup at, the delivery address that you specify); classification charges associated with the assignment of a Harmonized System ("HS") classification code; charges for export compliance screening and verification and the assignment of an Export Control Classification Number (ECCN); and operational expenses associated with short-term loss recovery and the management of variances between the quoted Import charges and actual costs.

Nowhere on a listing page are "import charges" described as strictly "taxes" and/or "duty," although they may make up a good portion of the total import charges.  There's other stuff thrown in there as well.  You may well question how legitimate those additional charges are, but remember that Pitney Bowes--or whoever is contracted out to process a GSP item on its behalf--isn't a charity; it's a business and has to pay its own way.

For what it's worth, yesterday I bought a Smartphone (on my regular eBay ID which doesn't work on the discussion boards--long story) that had import charges that came to less than the PST and GST I'd pay on it if I bought it for the same price locally.

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And all the while, the GSP (including its players eBay and PBI) continues to be fully unaccountable to consumers because of blanket terms that have no legal meaning like "Import Charges".

"Import Charges" only has meaning in eBay because eBay's T&C's and website contains the term, but if you ask a CBSA officer what "Import Charges" means and didn't include "eBay" as a context, they'd probably think you're talking about duty and/or the taxes, same with any other government official.

The problem isn't that these fees are being charged, it is the way they're being charged in a manner that has zero transparency that has no mechanisms whatsoever to protect consumers from fradulent charges. There's no way for a consumer to go to a CBSA office to challenge a GSP fee that was unlawfully or incorrectly collected. The T&C's contains that extremely vague term to further distance eBay from the legal frameworks of conventional commerce that is recognized by governments, coming up with terms like "Import Charges" that allows eBay or PBI to charge whatever fees they see fit and there is no confirmation whatsoever that any money actually made it to the Canadian government for imports under $20.

I don't mind paying CBSA, because I know money is going into Canadian pockets at the least, but I have no affirmation or legal mechanisms to hold PBI directly accountable because of the fact the eBay T&C's make eBay and all of its affiliates deities over a monopoly of individual-to-individual Internet commerce.

I would respectfully, sir, ask you to wake yourself up, eBay is not its own universe, there's a world outside of eBay that is questioning the integrity of the programme and there is no pointing at the T&C's or FAQs or other "eBay universe" stuff that will change that. It will only be when there is a full, qualified legal analysis on this programme from a Canadian standpoint (Not an American standpoint that eBay would prefer — in the US contracts are largely immutable) will many people be satisfied. Perhaps this analysis will require the intervention of Industry Canada, or perhaps it will require a court room.

But you sir, until you can post legal qualifications (including any accreditation numbers) are not capable of determining this issue authoritatively as you have been posturing again and again. While this programme may be valid in the US in its current form, in Canada it may be a fully different story. Look at how Facebook (a huge corporation like eBay) was corrected by the Canadian government for its lack of privacy mechanisms that are fully acceptable practice in the US. Facebook kept referring again and again to their ToS to their users saying "You can't do anything about our marketing programmes because you agreed to this". The Canadian Privacy Commissioner took exception to that and effectively nullified those terms for Canadians by way of Canadian law until Facebook demonstrated it had improved its privacy and security measures.

I think it is time for the GSP to be challenged in Canadian light as well. Not the hallowed American light that the eBay T&C's were developed under. Perhaps then we'll get full transparency of this programme's operation under consumer protection law.

[i*m-still-here]

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@walker0017 wrote:

______________________________________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________________________________

I think that people are posting their rants here because they are upset ultimately paying more for an item than what they should be and are describing using some rather colorful metaphors and the numbers of upset buyers are increasing.

The average Canadian has no problem paying taxes or duty on legitimate items when asked by the CBSA as we are use to the various levels of government demanding a piece of our action but we tend to get a bit upset when a third party does it arbitrarily using a very poorly designed program that more often than not overcharges on their version of assessed duty and taxes.

For some who think that this program is illegal, unfortunately it is all too legal, but no matter people should be able to rant at this without worrying about some minor facts. Sooner or later eBay has to get the message that to not make positive changes to this GSP will cost them sales.  🙂

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Exactly.  A few posters continue to argue that buyers are somehow "wrong" to be upset and then back that up with lengthy explanations.  They call that self-serving right fighting 'help."

They don't care that the one on the receiving end of these posts is only getting increasingly upset over the issues originally posted about.

I no longer believe that the GSP is going away.

The complaints were there from there from day 1 but ebay.com only pushes it harder.

It's in more listings every day.

[arlene_v]

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@pierrelebel wrote:

"how things work on Ebay,"

Is that blog referring to eBay specifically?

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Not sure about the blog itself, but the text and illustrations refer specifically to Ebay.

I totally agree with your observations in the rest of your post ...Pierre. 

Now I see that the issue of duty has come up again.

In the categories I am interested in I have seen countless examples of items attracting duty on top of HST (at least I assume that to be the case, because the "import charges" are never spelled out so one has to play detective!) and have mentioned it here. I am surprised more folks have not caught on to this issue and it has been largely dismissed when it is in fact a very big deal. 

If you check some of my earlier posts to this thread and the "questions" thread I have furnished quite a few examples. I could produce hundreds of examples daily but here is just one.

A vintage Trifari brooch, made in the USA that is attracting duty (my location is Ontario) on top of 13% HST. How do I know this is made in the USA ....because I study vintage and antique jewelry and Trifari is one of the "big names". 

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/VTG-Trifari-Pave-Rhinestone-Flower-Fur-Clip-Brooch-STUNNING-/221259984189?pt=...

According to the CBSA website the following holds true for duty on items for personal use ... "No duty is payable on goods imported for personal use, if it is marked as “made in Canada, the USA, or Mexico”, or if there is no marking or labelling indicating that it was made somewhere other than Canada, the USA, or Mexico."

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/ifcrc-rpcrc-eng.html

In this regard the GSP has dealt Canadians a particularly harsh blow with its onerous tax and duty calculating BOT that relies so heavily on the seller .... many of whom are unaware of this fact. 

[i*m-still-here]

I'm buying more on ebay than ever in spite of the GSP.

My items are getting shipped the normal way, but every piece takes more time and additional work and effort for everyone involved.

Me (the buyer), the seller, and also CS as the buyers often feel they have to call CS to make sure they are breaking no rules when they bill via paypal.

I think we should petition eBay to put that link back which allowed buyers to email sellers directly for the total so that sellers can send a shipping cost without the GSP.

That wouldn't solve all the problems with the GSP, but it would be a huge step in the right direction and........... so simple.

[chiboukiqc]

The GSP is terrible for canadiansI

I've stopped buying from sellers who use the GSP....

....

[walker0017]

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Kxeron wrote:

I think it is time for the GSP to be challenged in Canadian light as well. Not the hallowed American light that the eBay T&C's were developed under. Perhaps then we'll get full transparency of this programme's operation under consumer protection law.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

People have posted here that they have already brought this issue up to their MP's or in some cases MMP/MLA's with no results so far. While yes Canadian consumer law is a lot more consumer friendly than American consumer law this program has been around for how long now and nothing has been done to correct this in any meaningful way.

I guess another alternative would be for someone with deep pockets to launch a lawsuit against either eBay Canada or PBI or both and have the court bump it to a class action suit but I think that would be a stretch.

I do not see any quick or long term fix to this if either eBay or PBI does not want to fix it especially if they are pulling in millions of dollars profit for little to no work on their part and all that leaves us with is that all Canadian buyers can boycott any US seller that uses the GSP and as other posters have stated numerous times, educate those US sellers on the program about the extra costs the GSP is charging Canadian buyers as they do not see that charge.

[arlene_v]

The GSP is bad, and it has a lot to do with sellers having no clue about how vital the info is that they bring to the equation .... no thanks to PB ... as they say so cheerily on their blog selling internationally is as easy as 1-2-3! 

Right. Well let's use these two examples to illustrate this.

Check out the significant difference in shipping and import charges for the same BIN price between two sellers of vintage Pyrex dishes:

So in the first example the seller has listed the item in such a way that these dishes are attracting duty, even though they are made in the USA ...and also the shipping is way higher.

In the second example the seller has input data correctly and therefore only HST is charged (my location being Ontario =  13% plus other fees) ...  the free US shipping gets it to the depot in Kentucky gratis for the buyer resulting in lower shipping costs.

So the reason folks are so annoyed with the GSP is because similar listings are all over the place .... there is nothing predictable about it.

[mallet1665]

Any seller that uses this for moderately priced goods to Canada is losing business.  USPS is the only way to go.  Sellers from USA to Canada should check the listings - a 20$ item costs 35$ to ship?  Get real Ebay.  Check your head.  FedEx, Ups, etc are all cross border rip offs.

[i*m-still-here]

As far as I can tell, the GSP is about 1.5 years old.

That's aged by eBay standards and plenty of time to get it right, and so that must mean that ebay feels that they've hit on something good.

Ebay is trying to force those of us on the receiving end (mainly Canadian buyers) to pay for a process that makes our buying experience unpleasant and stressful.

In other words:  Not only does the GSP fail to deliver anything for our money, It actually makes the process much more difficult than ever before.

In other words, it seems that we're viewed as a nation of fools who will pay for a service that makes our shopping experience unpleasant.

Canada!!!!   Come On!!!  What's wrong with this picture?

[pjcdn2005]

Part of the problem is that in all 3 cases,(the brooch and the 2 pyrex listings)  the item specifics do not state that the items were made in the U.S. so there is no way for the gsp to know that they are duty free, especially if they are in certain categories. Ebay really should have it set up so that if the item is being sent with the gsp, they can't post the listing unless it has that info in the item specifics.

For those listing with duty, it would be interesting to see how/if that would change if the seller filled out in the item specifics that the country/region of manufacturer is the United States.

[deacondavid]

It is possible that I shall have to cease making purchases on E-Bay, if you persist in charging customs duty and brokerage on items for which no customs duty is due.

One shipper in particular was involved in this poor practice, but it seesm that you have now standardized a poor policy, and expect us all to pay. A Canadian $59.05 purchase carried $21.92 of shipping charges, and then an additional $18.26 of 'import charges': for a total of $99.23.

In the past, UPS tried to collect this on one purchase which I had to refuse: no item shipped by USPS has generated such a charge, unless there was duty payable, which was assessed and payable at the post office.

DRM+

[flyingquacker]

Ok so lately every time i find something worth while it is in the USA and the seller thinks they are doing a world of good by offering this global shipping option. When i look at the costs its a make eBay rich pyramid scheme. Its a financial joke. I should start to add up the dollar amounts I have walked away from because of this rip off. 

americans a piece of advise offer to ship usps and dont use glovbal shipping your are limiting your buyer market by doing so