eBay

tch_ca · ‎08-17-2017

It has become abundantly clear that Canada Post has started to purposely throttle inbound shipments that are shipped using "registered" method from other countries. CPC also recently removed the ability to track these shipments on the CPC website, and while tracking is still available on the originating sites, it is very limited. I'm not sure what the CPCs beef is with other postal services, but registered shipping is the most common method of shipping internationally in many countries and by far the cheapest way to ship with tracking. Although CPC does not allow foreign bound registered shipping to contain anything other than paper, other countries (eg;UK and most of Europe) do not put such limitations on the contents of registered shipment. The delays are atrocious (in a few cases over 60 days) and are clearly done by CPC in Canada and are only specific to anything sent "registered". It is borderline criminal that CPC is holding recipients hostage to force other Postal Services to encourage their clients to ship using products other than "registered".

marnotom! · ‎08-23-2017

@tch_ca wrote:

We are not going to agree on this. The removal of tracking on registered products INBOUND is recent.

It's irrelevant when this change occurred. Canada Post, as per International Postal Union conventions, is not obligated to treat inbound international registered mail any differently than regular international letter post. You've simply been fortunate to have online viewable tracking of inbound international registered items in the past. Someone at CPC probably figured this out when the corp was looking for cost-saving measures.

@tch_ca wrote:

If a seller provides a valid tracking number (irrelevant of the product they use), that uses delivery confirmation (which registered mail does) and the product does not deliver, Paypal refunds and the sellers gets to keep the money. It's not complicated.

PayPal may occasionally do "courtesy refunds" but what you describe is not their usual policy. The official policy is that if the tracking shows the item is not delivered to the address on the transaction details page, PayPal will not defend the seller against a claim of non-delivery. The seller will refund through PayPal and then make an insurance claim with the shipment's carrier to recoup funds lost.

You may be thinking of instances where the Global Shipping Program is used where the seller is protected against refunds for shipments that go AWOL on the legs of the item's journey where delivery is the responsibility of Pitney Bowes.

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-23-2017

@tch_ca wrote:
We are not going to agree on this. The removal of tracking on registered products INBOUND is recent. The statement relating to outbound is. Also wrong on the second point. You can argue the technical merit of tracking, If a seller provides a valid tracking number (irrelevant of the product they use), that uses delivery confirmation (which registered mail does) and the product does not deliver, Paypal refunds and the sellers gets to keep the money. It's not complicated.

Are there specific countries that you order from? Perhaps there was registered mail from specific countries that Canada did scan and they hav recently stopped? Just a guess as I tend to hear more about outgoing rather than incoming mail.

The only time that a seller can win an item not received claim on PayPal is if their is online delivery confirmation showing that the item was delivered to the address the buyer gave at the time of payment. If the tracking does not show the item as being delivered the seller has to refund the buyer. PP does not refund the buyer. The only exception to that is if a buyer has filed an unauthorized chargeback with their credit card company. In those cases, PP requires proof of shipping OR delivery.

The following is from the PayPal user agreement -seller protection. https://www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#11

Item not received requirements

For Chargebacks, the payment must be marked “eligible” or “partially eligible” for PayPal Seller protection on the Transaction Details Page.
You must provide Proof of Delivery as described below in Section 11.4.

The info I am referring to is from the US and Canadian PayPal user agreements. It's possible that some other countries have different requirements but I believe that most if not all have similar rules for item not received cases.

afantiques · ‎08-25-2017

the product does not deliver, Paypal refunds and the sellers gets to keep the money. It's not complicated.

The only way a seller keeps the money for a lost item is if the GSP is used. Normal practice is that the seller loses if the item is lost, PP may send the refund but it is deducted from the seller's funds.

The only way a seller can protect themselves from financial loss is by some form of insurance.

femmefan1946 · ‎08-25-2017

Not Latin,Greek.

I'm with Shakespeare on my knowledge of ancient languages, but my English pedantry knows no bounds.

The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.-- James Nicoll

dutchman48 · ‎08-26-2017

@tch_ca wrote:
Lack of clarity on my part typing on a phone. So here it goes again. No one disputes the inability to track outbound registered mail on the CPC site and frankly I don't care since never use the product. However the inability to see on the CPC site where an incoming shipment is within Canada is recent. I've exchanged numerous emails through my MPP to CPC on the topic. CPC acknowledges the change (We no longer, blah, blah, blah...)...One thing they will not tell you is "why" and more so they refuse to explain the huge recent delays.

As others of said, you need to get your facts straight.

I have been getting registered mail for years and none of it was tracked within Canada. It will show delivered, but nothing on line that will keep Ebay or Paypal happy.

You can argue all you want, but what I and others are telling you is the way it is and has been for yers longer than 3 months..

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-27-2017

There is online delivery confirmation for registered mail if it is from and to a Canadian address ...but not for international...correct?

amcdc79 · ‎08-30-2017

I can't blame other sellers from other countries not names China for being upset at the delays. Most of them pay good money to ship here, and being tarred with the same feather as China, is not right.

Could customs also be part of the problem(drugs)?

Is CPC still losing money delivering their parcels, letter-post, etc, we know they do, on the items from China?

Or is it a Union tactic, ahead of negotiations due next year? Good grief, I hope not, as I just back in the game, with a few sales this year. Last year my items were on and off where I sell like a Yo-yo, DO NOT want to go through that again!

reallynicestamps · ‎09-01-2017

The drug problem is centred on fentanyl, which has killed over 500 Canadians in 2017.

But China , where it was originating, is apparently cooperating to stamp out the trade. And they Chinese have heavy boots,

It's likely that what is still arriving is 'legacy'.

The losses, to ALL western postal systems, is from China Post using a loophole in the Universal Postal Union agreements. We see occasional references to the problem on the dotCOM boards too.

As far as I've heard, the union doesn't have anything to do with the slowdown. The drugs problem is at CBSA where the first search takes place. The underpayment is a management decision.

The union may be happier with Deepak Chopra retiring. He refused to quit when the new Liberal government came in and the union hates him anyway. He came to Canada Post from Pitney Bowes, the bunch who brought us the Global Shipping Program.

The union seems to be focussed on changes in work and duties as lettermail disappears and package delivery becomes more and more important.

dutchman48 · ‎09-01-2017

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
There is online delivery confirmation for registered mail if it is from and to a Canadian address ...but not for international...correct?

That I can't answer for sure. I haven't used registered in Canada for years.

As far as international, some I have to sign for and some I don't. Whether it is my postal outlet or the way it is mailed, I am not sure. It is really starting to worry me about the lack of consistency. I will check the last registered I received for a signature.

I will also be calling my contact at CP next week to see if I can get some accurate information about registered mail.

dutchman48 · ‎09-01-2017

I just checked the last registered I received from overseas.

Here is what it says at CP on line tracking:

We were not able to find any results

Tracking is not available for international registered mail items sent to Canada.

This was an order for over $300.00 so as far as I am concerned, was a waste of money to pay for registered unless they get a great deal.

splattii · ‎09-05-2017

I'm facing this problem right now. 5 Packages, all registered, all sent between July 28th and August 5th and nothing has shown up. I was starting to wonder **bleep** was going on, this makes sense. Something needs to be done, we can't conduct small business like this. One of the parcels has material I need for work and it's gone MIA. Canada Post told me stuff can be held for 4-6 weeks in Customs now. I don't know, Canada Post keeps getting worse and worse

splattii · ‎09-05-2017

Yes the removal was recent. I've tracked RR packages this year. It usually told me when it was released from customs and when it was out for delivery. That's it. I've found evidence on google that it was taken down a long time ago, but from personal experience I know that's not the case.

marnotom! · ‎09-05-2017

@splattii wrote:

Yes the removal was recent. I've tracked RR packages this year. It usually told me when it was released from customs and when it was out for delivery. That's it. I've found evidence on google that it was taken down a long time ago, but from personal experience I know that's not the case.

I get the impression that there are regional variations in how international packages are handled.

For example, I remember a discussion on this board a few years back where it became apparent that Priority parcels from the United States were entered into the system as "Xpresspost" in some parts of the country when they reached Canada, but slapped with "Expedited" labels in others.

femmefan1946 · ‎09-05-2017

5 Packages, all registered, all sent between July 28th and August 5th and nothing has shown up.

Are you the buyer or the seller?

If you are the Buyer, open Item Not Recieved disputes for each parcel.

If the Seller cannot prove delivery (not shipping, delivery) you will be refunded.

If you are the Seller, you just got five Life Lessons.

Registered Mail is overpriced for what you get, not electronically trackable, and is a magnet for mail thieves.

You can start insurance claims with the Post Office (don't bother the clerks at the postal outlet) for each of these. Registration carries $50 insurance.

And in future, use one of the internationally trackable services Canada Post offers.

https://www.canadapost.ca/cpotools/apps/far/business/findARate?execution=e1s1

splattii · ‎09-06-2017

Not interested in using tracking with Canada Post, cost is too high. I've never lost a package....ever. I ship to places like Zambia and Mongolia. No issues. If these two are lost, no worries, I'll send a refund. The amount of money I've saved customers over the years has done much more for my reputation than an occasional loss would hurt me. Retail outlets see an annual loss of 15% due to theft, so as long as I keep my loses under 15%, I'm ahead. High shipping prices kill sales more than anything else. I know I won't order items from dealers that us the Global Shipping Program, I've setup an American Postal Box to avoid import taxes. A friend goes every 2 weeks and forwards me the boxes as opposed to paying duties ahead, and in the US most shipments cost me $4 to ship to my drop location, which is less than the tax and charges added by GSP. Anyhow, your advice is sound, and I thank you for it, but unfortunately the right thing isn't always the best thing, and this is one of those cases where forcing customers to add tracking will kill my business.

As for the packages coming in, all 5 are mia, but I can't open 5 claims at once. I should let common sense prevail here as the odds of all 5 going missing, (outside of my postal delivery person stealing them) is highly unlikely. I will wait at least 8-12 weeks before opening a claim. We have 180 days, no reason to jump to conclusions yet

pocomocomputing · ‎09-06-2017

@splattii wrote:
Not interested in using tracking with Canada Post, cost is too high. I've never lost a package....ever. I ship to places like Zambia and Mongolia. No issues. If these two are lost, no worries, I'll send a refund. The amount of money I've saved customers over the years has done much more for my reputation than an occasional loss would hurt me. Retail outlets see an annual loss of 15% due to theft, so as long as I keep my loses under 15%, I'm ahead. High shipping prices kill sales more than anything else. I know I won't order items from dealers that us the Global Shipping Program, I've setup an American Postal Box to avoid import taxes. A friend goes every 2 weeks and forwards me the boxes as opposed to paying duties ahead, and in the US most shipments cost me $4 to ship to my drop location, which is less than the tax and charges added by GSP. Anyhow, your advice is sound, and I thank you for it, but unfortunately the right thing isn't always the best thing, and this is one of those cases where forcing customers to add tracking will kill my business.

As for the packages coming in, all 5 are mia, but I can't open 5 claims at once. I should let common sense prevail here as the odds of all 5 going missing, (outside of my postal delivery person stealing them) is highly unlikely. I will wait at least 8-12 weeks before opening a claim. We have 180 days, no reason to jump to conclusions yet.

15% ??? It is 1.44% according to this article, even less since it includes other reasons for loss other than theft.

http://time.com/money/4829684/shoplifting-fraud-retail-survey/

The National Retail Security Survey, conducted annually by the National Retail Federation trade group, found that the average inventory shrink rate increased to 1.44% in 2016. That figure — which measures missing inventory — includes items that go missing because of shoplifting, theft by employees, administrative errors, vendor fraud and other unknown loss.