Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

Haven't been on here for awhile.

 INR Claims are now over the top, Four INR Claims in the past two days. Seems a New Angle is filing direct through PayPal for unauthorized purchases.

 Clothing is a razor thin profit category & Canadian Sellers just cannot afford the 17.00 tracking expense & feel US Buyers are taking advantage once they see no tracking number submitted.

 Very frustrating as once I refund these four claims I will have refunded 600. cdn with four months left to go in the year.

 **bleep** frustrating.

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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

OP is alleging that slimey USA buyers are taking advantage of the lack of tracking, so they are opening INR even though they presumably received the parcel. So in that case, inputting the tracking numbers and getting a delivery scan will close the INR in your favour. (at least it did for me last year, now that was a good feeling)
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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

@travis7s 

inputting the tracking numbers and getting a delivery scan will close the INR in your favour.

 

Absolutely.

But.

A 100gr envelope can travel by LetterPost for $3.19.

A 100gr envelope can travel by Small Packet for $7.54.

A 100gr envelope can travel by Tracked Packet for $14.42.

 

How do you ship a 100gr /2cm thick item that you sold for $9.99? For $29.99?  For 129.99?

 

And again, here we are with Cookie Jar Insurance, which is just putting a few pennies  in a virtual Cookie Jar as a self-insurance premium against problems.

(And some of those problems are our errors, not the responsibility of the buyer at all.)

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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?


@esclyons wrote:

not true, proof of delivery is the ultimate  proof,   to win, not proof of shipping.. i have had proof of shipping, and still had buyers say they didn't receive it,, but proof of delivery did..  you can take that to the bank, because i have had to, a couple of times..


Recped's post is correct.  For a claim of Unauthorized Transaction, proof of shipping is all that is required as long as that proof meets PayPal's requirements.

https://www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full?locale.x=en_CA#proof-delivery

Item Not Received claims are a different kettle of fish, however.

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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

Certainly it does seem like we're having IRNs "every day" (in fact I did have one today!).

 

However, looking at my own stats, of the "COVID" related losses:

 

I've had 12 COVID related INRs in which I've refunded so far

7 of them later repaid when the item showed up (benefits of selling to stamp folks!)

1 of them was for sure a "crime"

 

I don't have easy access to my number of transactions, but in terms of % of overall sales it is 0.0027% so less than 1 quarter of a percent of sales in terms of $$$ is lost due to INRs. Note that this is overall results across all sites.

 

If I look at Ebay only results it is 0.0044% so just under half a %. For those that follow my annual cookie jar insurance reports, this as a % of sales is better than average which is usually around 0.004 (just under half a percent).

 

So at least for me, in the end it is all the extra time and accounting around the communication, refunds, repayment that are costing me.....

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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

Today I refunded a buyer for the twenty fifth time this year, I still have one more INR to refund by the ninth & two unauthorized purchases through PayPal.

 My average sales per month are twenty five items so one month has already been wiped out.  Seems to be an ongoing issue as three clothing sellers I contacted are having the same issues with US buyers. Bottom Line, track it or refund it.

 Contacted eBay CS, they mentioned they could still receive the item & contact you regarding repayment. Laughable as not one single buyer, in all the years selling on eBay, has ever contacted me regarding a repayment for a refunded item.

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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

My bad, today was my twenty fourth refund, I'd rather be honest.

 Item was sold July 12th & had never heard from the buyer until he launched an INR.

 In addition, my eBay account is now considered Low Standard due to the amount of INR claims which has never occurred in all my years selling.

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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

Uggh that's a pain.

 

Certainly if this is a consistent problem in your category you're going to have to figure out a way to "adapt" to make it worthwhile.

 

Things I've done in my world are bundling etc but I don't know what makes sense in yours!

 

I hope things turn around, I certainly understand the frustration, it's gotta be a lot worse with a 0% repayment scenario!

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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

I have refunded more payments this year, thus far, than the last three years combined.

 Pretty well impossible to make a go of it with clothing for Canadian Sellers. One of our vintage clothing godfathers had grown tired of refunds & increased his shipping costs to include tracking, however he starting receiving a series of NFB in regards to his shipping costs.

 Word is out, reminds me of the YouTube videos a few years back on how to receive free merchandise on eBay, same thing sans the video.

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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

Perhaps the way to go is to move to Free Shipping.

DON'T PANIC!

The idea is that the asking price includes a flat rate for shipping.

Which is cheaper"

 A $40 shirt with $22.85 Tracked Packing?

 A $62.85 shirt with Free Shipping?

For that matter-  A $64.99 shirt with Free Shipping?

It needs playing with and massaging to find the right Flat Rate.

I do this for most of my items, but finding the sweet spot so that I can offer "free" shipping to both Canada and the USA took a lot of thought.

 

And before you worry about your prices being too high, keep in mind that

  • most of your customers were willing to cover your bottom line when you had separate shipping.
  • buyers love anything "free"
  • and there are those who believe that if it costs more it is better . This is called "aspirational buying" and I'm sure you are aware of it among any sneakerheads of your acquaintance.

Maybe things will get better if the Americans elect an honest government in the fall. The mindset of the current one, I am convinced, spills over into the behaviour of the public.

 

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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

I have noticed that folks seem grumpier than usual last couple weeks or so. Not sure what's causing that, there's too many possible options to pick one these days!!! 

 

That doesn't help either......

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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

Free shipping is usually better marketing wise.

The only time free shipping isn't better, is when a large amount of the same item can be shipped at a very similar price, and there is very likely to be a lot of cross over in appeal. The best example I can think of this in action would be low end sports cards.

If someone has a card worth $5, they can sell it for $5.00, or something like 2.81+2.19 shipping. Because lettermail shipping goes by weight, a seller can ship multiple cards at no extra cost. A buyer will be more motivated to buy multiple cards of the same player/team/collection because with the 2.19 shipping being a sunk cost, because a seller is charging for combined shipping (and not using "free" shipping) the buyer now has the opportunity to get multiple additional $5.00 cards for only 2.81 each. Meaning, combined shipping is opening up the opportunity to cross sell a buyer, and the opportunity might be successful because the buyer is getting a 44 percent discount at no extra cost to the seller. But if a seller prices their items at $5.00 w/ free shipping, they don't benefit from this kind of marketing opportunity. It becomes really inefficient because as a seller, you're inflating the price of the 2nd, 3rd, etc items by 44 percent, which lowers the chance of those 2nd, 3rd, etc items getting sold in the same transaction. The only upside is that if a buyer is going to buy multiple cards anywas, you will make an additional 44 percent on each item. I would guess that upside wouldn't be justified by the downside of losing out on multiple sales.

On the actual topic of INR claims, it is just the cost of doing business. People can dress things up with "cookie jar insurance", but at the end of the day it is a very simple equation. Do I lose more by opening myself up to be scammed x amount of times a year than I make by opening myself up to make additional sales by not using tracking (which lowers my prices and makes me more competitive). That's what each seller has to weigh. Depending on the category, the answer might be different. Cookie jar insurance is only a way to stabilize income if eBay is something a person relies on where without cookie jar insurance, they might have a hard time covering the cost of an INR claim. If you look at things over an entire quarter, or a year, cookie jar insurance doesn't actually make up for the loss.

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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

I think that the term cookie jar insurance and the related concept is a way to help folks visualize the cost of loss and the related addition to the cost of selling.

 

Losses due to INRs, SNADs etc are just another cost of selling (part of cost of goods sold). I think in some cases sellers don't really understand all the portions of cost of goods sold.

 

Understanding the amount of loss per year or per # of sales or sales $ is important. Visualizing a few cents on each order is simply another way of saying the cost of "loss"  is a few cents against a certain sized order.

 

In my case, and I happen to live in a much safer world, my "cookie jar" cost ends up being 9c on each $20 order. 

 

BB's world is much less safe, so the "cookie jar" cost is going to be a lot higher than 9c on a $20 order.

 

I know mine by observation. If I were to start selling today, I would not know what my % loss would be, the closest I could get would be to observe what other folks selling my category(s) are experiencing if they are sharing it in places like this.

 

Because I have enough sales, I of course don't set aside $$$ to cover losses each year, I monitor the actual losses to make sure the loss percentage rate is acceptable. When it rises to a point where it is too high, I take steps to try to reduce the risk/cost of it.

 

It is very hard NOT to track an item worth $100 from a worries perspective, but given 99.5% or more of them arrive ok, it is much much more cost effective to bear the risk (in my world) and send untracked, assuming one sends enough shipments to spread the risk over enough items to make it economical.

 

If one is just starting out, a $100 loss early on can be somewhat $$$ traumatic so if one is just starting, it probably does make sense to have some $$$ set aside for possible claims. (In my early days on eBay I always kept enough in PAYPAL to cover the largest sale of the month incase it failed for any reason).

 

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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

Another possibility may be to subsidize your shipping rate with the cost of your item and go with flat shipping rates, if your bookkeeping and sanity can handle different selling prices for the same item depending on where the item is going.
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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

As I just refunded my twenty fifth item, in 2019 I refunded three items, I have just come to the realization that I & many other Canadian Sellers are dealing with a majority of dishonest buyers in the clothing category.

 As I posted previously, Word is out, no tracking equals free items & I expect the INR claims to continue which has already left my account below standard.

 Clothing is a very competitive & over saturated category & have tried being creative, including fixed price shipping, the last three years when the bottom stated falling out. 

 This is not eBay's fault, however I often wonder how many INR claims they are allowed to launch before suspension. After suspension one can easily turn to a friend or family member & state " Hey, this is how we can obtain free merchandise on eBay especially from Canadian Sellers "

 Thanks for letting me kvetch.

 

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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

A few years ago I had a lot of problems with buyers from China buying PRC stamps which were very hot at the time and an extremely high loss rate with untracked packages going there.

 

They were even changing names and addresses when I blocked them (I was able to catch them because they were still using folks in the same "area code").

 

Anyway to fix that I had to add tracking to everything going to China. That stopped the problem but it also much reduced sales, for the next year or two buyers bulked together purchases to make the shipping worthwhile, but sales of any kind to China anymore are rare. (Usually the items are $15 to $25 so a $20 minimum shipping cost eliminates one item orders). The reduction is also likely due to the fact that the demand has fallen a lot and there is a lot of reproduced and or fake stuff being offered.

 

Anyway, I hope you can figure out something that works out, certainly you're in an extremely frustrating situation right now!!!

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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

This thread jinxed it for me. I have not had any Canadian INR requests in three months. That's 100's of transactions. Now I've had 2 INR cases in 2 days. Both from near the end of July (23rd, and 25th).

Canada Post has this weird thing with delays, where it seems like certain batches of mail get delayed, and then items sent after aren't delayed. So I've sent a bunch of packages last week that arrive in 2-3 days, but I've got at least 2 orders from July that still presumably haven't arrived. I have enough reason to believe the buyers are being honest.
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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

Had the same problem and just switched all my shipping to tracked. People have to either pay up or get nothing now; I've had to refund too many people for it. 

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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

Lettermail in Canada (especially anything that goes through Mississauga) has been incredibly slow for the past few months. I have two buyers that have been waiting a month.

Also agree that people have seemed grumpier in the past couple of weeks. Maybe because Covid cases are going back up just as kids had off to school? Who knows!

All I know is my cookie jar is being emptied, fast!
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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

As far as I know, INR claims are unlimited. I reported an obvious scammer buyer (who had many remarks about INR refunds in followup feedback alone) and nothing's happened to him. He continues to target Canadian sellers who appear to use lettermail service. It's plain as day, yet ebay does nothing. Very frustrating!
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Re: Anyone Else Experiencing A Ridiculous Amount Of INR Claims ?

Just received this message when I arrived home, an item sold July 9th.

 " Hi, still haven't had this delivered. Could you please check with your post office please. Just noticed NO TRACKING INFO. Thanks. "

 Another refund I guess, this will be number twenty six with two PayPal charge backs still pending.

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