eBay

wonsxela · ‎01-29-2019

So among other things, I tried to send a standard envelope (below 30 g, containing Pokemon cards) today. I had 90 cents worth of stamps on it, using old stamps I'd bought from here on Ebay. But the manager of the Sobeys post office I usually go to insisted that the postage rate for standard letter mail within Canada is $1.05 regardless of which stamps are used. I'm certain that she's wrong, because I've mailed several of these since the rate change and they haven't returned to me. I took the envelope back and dropped it in the mailbox outside instead. Has this been happening to anyone else?

kawartha-ephemera · ‎01-29-2019

@wonsxela wrote:
So among other things, I tried to send a standard envelope (below 30 g, containing Pokemon cards) today. I had 90 cents worth of stamps on it, using old stamps I'd bought from here on Ebay. But the manager of the Sobeys post office I usually go to insisted that the postage rate for standard letter mail within Canada is $1.05 regardless of which stamps are used. I'm certain that she's wrong, because I've mailed several of these since the rate change and they haven't returned to me. I took the envelope back and dropped it in the mailbox outside instead. Has this been happening to anyone else?

This scenario confuses a LOT of people.

The clerk was absolutely correct to state your letter was short postage. Yes a 30g or less regular letter can be correctly posted within Canada for 90 cents BUT to receive that lower rate we MUST purchase P stamps in rolls of 100 or better. Rolls of 100 P stamps cost $90 plus GST/HST.

Any P stamp will send a 30g letter across Canada and the 90 cent rate can be had if purchased in rolls. Otherwise whether purchased singly or in books of 10 the P stamps will cost 1.05 plus Tax.

Any combination ( of non P ) stamps must equal the standard rate of 1.05 as the clerck correctly stated.

Where this dual rate model becomes even more confusing is the situation where P stamps are used tp post items other than standard 30g lettermail. Due to the fact that the Ps are available at the .90 cent rate this is the face value attached to Ps when used outside their intended use, 30g lettermail. Place a P stamp on a piece of oversize lettermail it's value is .90 cents even if it was purchased singly at 1.05. Canada Post has no choice but to value Ps this way. Otherwise us thrifty Canadians would be purchasing rolls of Ps at the discounted rate (intended for 30g mail) and using them to post all sorts of non standard mail.

This dual P stamp pricing is the root cause of much confusion.

A 30g letter sent with short postage of anything less than 1.05 may well find it's way through the postal system if dropped in a red box simply due to the fact no human examined it for correct postage.

Long story short ... non P stamps used to post 30g lettermail need to total 1.05 not the discount P rate of .90 cents.

momcqueen · ‎01-30-2019

This is what I thought but you and I are in the minority here.

momcqueen · ‎01-30-2019

Or, if not in the minority, what I believed aligns with what you (and a few others) have stated except our resident stamp-sellers say otherwise.

I’ve got packages to post tomorrow; I can ask at the counter. Someone else should probably call the 1-800-number. It should NOT be this difficult or confusing of a question to answer.

kawartha-ephemera · ‎01-30-2019

When this new pricing was first introduced with the big price hike in I think it was 2014 I thought the same as many here still do but I was way off base.

Our local postmaster lady set me straight but the nature of the rate system is difficult to come to grips with. The CP site makes no real effort to clearly describe the difference in rates between discounted Ps purchased in volume and old fashioned stamps carrying a printed face value. Maybe they do so on purpose and rely on their retail staff to educate the public.

Unfortunately, many of those using old unused stamps do not seem to realize 1.05 is required on domestic 30g mail and that the only way to obtain the discounted. 90 cent rate is to buy and use Ps in rolls.

MQ... if you do visit a post office today would you please inquire what volume of P stamp purchases are required to obtain the. 90 cent rate?

I always purchase the rolls of 100 which are discounted but I have lost track of the threshold for the discount. For instance are the rolls of 50 and larger book quantities discounted too? I don't believe they are but like I said I've lost track.

Just to clarify once again for others who may be reading this thread.

The discounted P stamp rates apply to only one class of mail that being domestic 30g or less standard size lettermail. The moment the Ps are placed on heavier or oversized mail or on International mail the value is still only 90 cents.
In fact discounted Ps are never (unless rates go higher) really worth more than .90 cents, CP merely allows us a rate reduction on 30g mail if we purchase the Ps in a high enough volume.

Further, CP does not extend the rate reduction to any other class of mail except regular domestic 30g so purchasing Ps in rolls earns no discount on other types of mail or parcels.

The discounted 30 g rate can not be obtained by any other means other than purchasing a sufficiently large enough volume of P stamps. Certainly not by using any stamps new or old with a face value printed on them. This sort of postage requires the standard 1.05 rate be paid. Confusing, but this is just the way of CP rates.

meowmix14 · ‎01-30-2019

That is not correct. I asked this question to my very knowledgeable postmaster this morning: "What dollar amount of postage is required to send one 30 gram or less number 10 envelope as lettermail within Canada?"
Their answer was 90¢. The $1.05 only applies at the counter when purchasing postage as singles, think of it as a 15¢ service charge/convenience fee.
The "P" on a stamp stands for permanent. That stamp is good for one piece of standard sized lettermail to be sent whatever the price might go to in 20 years from now. Right before Canada Post raised the price from 63¢ to 85¢ I cleaned out a retailer as Canada Post was asking merchants to pull rolls off the shelves until the price increase. Huge dollar impact when you sell in volume like I do.
Last year the P stamps were worth 85¢, this year it's 90¢, next year ??

ricarmic · ‎01-30-2019

I mentioned our conundrum here to my postmaster as well. She just chuckled. (All that is needed is 90c of stamps if one puts them on oneself as I said earlier).

The sad fact is if your local PO thinks regular stamps put on by you need to add up to $1.05 you'll have to put them in the mailbox or take them to another place, or just pay the extra 15c each time.

Over the years I've had problems with the PO folks in HO especially not knowing the rules, and I've had to quote the "scriptures" (the BIG PO manual) to them. My favourite situation was when I had a claim and the CSR and their Manager when I escalated told me stamps could not be insured (despite the fact in the "scriptures" it says stamps are covered but only to a maximum of $500 (who knows why)). After I pointed out the section in the manual, the manager replied back that that was only there to cover the post office if they mailed stamps to customers??????! Fortunately by this point, the CSR took pity on me and covered the claim anyway......

pjcdn2005 · ‎01-30-2019

@kawartha-ephemera wrote:

Any P stamp will send a 30g letter across Canada and the 90 cent rate can be had if purchased in rolls. Otherwise whether purchased singly or in books of 10 the P stamps will cost 1.05 plus Tax.

Perhaps the clerk should look at the Canada Post page which states that P stamps purchased in booklets/coils/panes are .90.
https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/prices/lm_pricesheet-e.pdf

And on this page you can purchase booklets of 10 P stamps for $9
https://www.canadapost.ca/shop/stamps/canada.jsf

Any combination ( of non P ) stamps must equal the standard rate of 1.05 as the clerck correctly stated.

Sorry but I don't believe that is the case. Any combination of stamps that total .90 can be used to mail a letter 30 grams or less.

wonsxela · ‎01-30-2019

I actually went to the main post office (actually run by Canada Post instead of Sobeys) and asked one of the senior workers there, and even she wasn't sure, but said she would call customer service and ask. I pointed out to her that if the postage rate is $1.05 regardless of the type of stamps used, why did they bother posting the 90 cent rate at all?

ypdc_dennis · ‎01-30-2019

@kawartha-ephemera wrote:
Any P stamp will send a 30g letter across Canada and the 90 cent rate can be had if purchased in rolls. Otherwise whether purchased singly or in books of 10 the P stamps will cost 1.05 plus Tax.

INCORRECT

A book of "P" stamps DOES NOT cost $1.05 each

Book of 10 is $9.00 + tax

https://www.canadapost.ca/shop/shop.jsf

Single purchase is $1.05 -- all booklets and rolls of "P" stamps are 90 cents a stamp.

kawartha-ephemera · ‎01-30-2019

@meowmix14 wrote:
That is not correct. I asked this question to my very knowledgeable postmaster this morning: "What dollar amount of postage is required to send one 30 gram or less number 10 envelope as lettermail within Canada?"
Their answer was 90¢. The $1.05 only applies at the counter when purchasing postage as singles, think of it as a 15¢ service charge/convenience fee.
The "P" on a stamp stands for permanent. That stamp is good for one piece of standard sized lettermail to be sent whatever the price might go to in 20 years from now. Right before Canada Post raised the price from 63¢ to 85¢ I cleaned out a retailer as Canada Post was asking merchants to pull rolls off the shelves until the price increase. Huge dollar impact when you sell in volume like I do.
Last year the P stamps were worth 85¢, this year it's 90¢, next year ??

I agree with most of what you have stated here.

The real problem is the persons asking tthe questions phrase them poorly (I'm often guilty of this) or the respondent just does not understand whag info the questioner is after and provides an answer to a different question altogether.

Re: the .90 vs 1.05 debate

A any customer stepping up to a Canada Post retail counter with for example 5 pieces of regular 30g lettermail that wishes to purchase postage will be quoted 5 x 1.05 plus tax, this is fact. Now, a helpful clerk should mention to the customer that if they were to purchase a book of 10 domestic permanent stamps their cost could be reduced to .90 per piece. At that point the customer chooses to either spend only the minum required that day (1.05 x 5 = 5.25) or they can choose to purchase 5 more stamps than they need that day being 10 x .90 = 9.00.

I cannot guess what percentage of customers would choose to spend 5.25 rather than 9.00 on any given day but I imagine a significant portion of infrequent customers would decline the offer of discounted postage.

There are many many thousands, who knows how many pieces paying the 1.05 rate.

Would I or any other user of this forum choose to pay the 1.05? Heck no, not in a million years.

Personally it is my habit to purchase several rolls of domestic Ps throughout the year and for obvious reasons it does not bother me to have a stash in the drawer. Thus I do not think I have ever purchased Ps in books of 10. Checking with the CP online store I see the books also sell @ .90 per stamp, having no interest in books I was not sure what the minimum quantity available at that price was until just now.

kawartha-ephemera · ‎01-30-2019

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
@kawartha-ephemera wrote:

Any P stamp will send a 30g letter across Canada and the 90 cent rate can be had if purchased in rolls. Otherwise whether purchased singly or in books of 10 the P stamps will cost 1.05 plus Tax.

Perhaps the clerk should look at the Canada Post page which states that P stamps purchased in booklets/coils/panes are .90.
https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/prices/lm_pricesheet-e.pdf

And on this page you can purchase booklets of 10 P stamps for $9
https://www.canadapost.ca/shop/stamps/canada.jsf

Any combination ( of non P ) stamps must equal the standard rate of 1.05 as the clerck correctly stated.

Sorry but I don't believe that is the case. Any combination of stamps that total .90 can be used to mail a letter 30 grams or less.

PJ and ricarmic are correct in that any combination of old or new staps carrying a face value of .90 cents are carrying the correct postage. You are correct, I have either received bad information from clerks or mkre likely we misunderstood each other. I took the time to phone a different sleepy rural post office and clearly posed the question regarding the proper use of unused but vintage stamps. The clerk without hesitation stated as long as the face value equalled at least .90 they were fine for domestic 30g lettermail. Does not matter new or old .90 face value is correct.

Apparently Ive been misinformed in this regard. My apologies to the vintage stamp seller group.

momcqueen · ‎01-30-2019

I was just told at my postal counter that if you mail a letter using any combination of numbered-value stamps on a letter, you need $1.05 in postage. And that if it’s an oversized letter, that a P stamp is worth 90 cents only.

Discounted postage starts with books of ten. If you needed to buy nine stamps only? You’d pay $1.05 plus tax each.

I’m getting information from a postal manager of 24 years that contradicts what has been asserted here. I’ll call the 1-800-number tomorrow.

ricarmic · ‎01-30-2019

I am not surprised the PMs are struggling, no different than us. Their documentation is not always present, well understood and from what I've seen from my post office their help line is just like most help lines, a lot depends on who you get, I know my PMs over the years have had awesome support and awful support depending on what CSR picked up their call.

If they sell the individual stamps off the wee roll by their terminal, yep they are all $1.05 stamps. The $1.05 are the ONLY ones they can sell individually to cover the 30g rate. They can only sell the "P" stamps in the booklets, coil rolls etc - you can't (aka shouldn't be able) buy a single "P" stamp from a post office....that is probably also what is confusing them*

I also think if you call the 1-800 number more than once, you will probably get "both" answers depending on what CSR you get.

Looks like you** are stuck with the alternate options of paying the extra 15c for a stamped letter, or putting it in the box outside the outlet or going to a different outlet.

*Interesting change causing them some troubles now, the rules have changed that now allow them to sell the $2.65 etc stamps individually off the coil rolls. Previously they could only sell the entire roll of 50 or 100 to you. Now they can sell them individually, however if you buy a roll, they have to remember to scan it and multiply it by 50 or 100. I suspect the rules will change back again depending on how many rolls they sell for $2.65 or $1.27 or $1.90 by forgetting to multiply them!!!

**You're not an "older" stamps on the letter kinda person anyway right??

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎01-30-2019

Who would have thought a 90 cent stamp vs a 1.05 stamp would cause such a kerfuffle?

-Lotz

kawartha-ephemera · ‎01-30-2019

@momcqueen wrote:
I was just told at my postal counter that if you mail a letter using any combination of numbered-value stamps on a letter, you need $1.05 in postage. And that if it’s an oversized letter, that a P stamp is worth 90 cents only.

Discounted postage starts with books of ten. If you needed to buy nine stamps only? You’d pay $1.05 plus tax each.

I’m getting information from a postal manager of 24 years that contradicts what has been asserted here. I’ll call the 1-800-number tomorrow.

Wow just wow ... good luck with your call tomorrow.

The above is the interpretation I had been labouring under until today. This info wass also received from an extremely competent and long tenured postmistress. Whom are we to believe?

Here is a hypothetical scenario for you;

I set 5 pieces of regular 30g lettermail on the postal counter and proceed to attach .90 cents face value of stamps (ie: 9 x .10 cent stamps on each) to each of the 5 letters. Should I expect that .90 cents should be sufficient postage? What if I went so far as to purchase 45 ten cent stamps from the clerk and then pasted them on the 5 letters, would that still be sufficient postage?

Keeping in mind the scenario described above how would the next customer in line behind me feel when they also present 5 pieces of identical lettermail only they have no stamps on their person and need to buy postage only to be asked to pay 1.05 for each?

This does not make any sense whatsoever. What exactly did the first customer do differently to deserve a discount? They certainly did not purchase discounted Permanent stamps.

In order for each customer to receive equal and fair treatment shouldn't the first customer be required to pay 1.05 too?

To be honest I don't buy into the "service charge" explanation.

meowmix14 · ‎01-30-2019

That is incorrect. Costs only went up a nickle.

From Canada Post:

"Canada Post proposes new postage rates for 2019 Price of a domestic stamp would increase to 90 centsPosted on June 21, 2018 by Canada Post in News Releases

OTTAWA – Canada Post is proposing to increase postage rates in 2019. The postage rate for domestic LettermailTM items weighing 30 grams or less when purchased in a booklet, coil or pane would increase to $0.90 from the current rate of $0.85. The price of a single domestic stamp would increase to $1.05 from the current rate of $1.00. The rate change would take effect on January 14, 2019."

From Wikipedia (probably not the best source):

"The lettermail service allows the transmission of virtually any paper document. The 2015 to 2018 rate was 85 cents for a standard letter (30 g or less) and $1.20 for a letter between 30 g and 50 g. Proposed change for 2019 is 90 cents and $1.27 for these rates. Rates usually increase in mid-January of each year; for ordinary letters (30 g or less).The rate was regulated by a price-cap formula, linked to the inflation rate. The Corporation now has a "permanent" stamp that is valued at the domestic rate forever, eliminating the need to buy 1 cent stamps after a rate increase. "

From 2014 when the huge jump in lettermail occurred, key point highlighted in red.

Posted on March 19, 2014 by CPO in News Releases

OTTAWA (Ont.) – As announced in December, Canada Post is introducing a new tiered pricing structure for domestic and international letters. The regulatory process has concluded and documents will soon be published in the Canada Gazette Part II.

On March 31, the price of Permanent (or “P”) stamps bought in booklets, coils and panes will be $0.85 per stamp, up from $0.63 today. “P” stamps are valid on standard letters 0-30 g mailed within Canada. A $0.22 stamp will be available as make-up postage for 0-30 g letters for those customers who wish to use previously purchased $0.63 stamps.

With the same reasoning, I should have been using $1.00 of postage instead of 85 cents the past 5 years and over 25,000 envelopes mailed. Postage costs for lettermail did not jump 20 cents overnight, otherwise my torches and pitchforks would be listed for the angry mobs and I would be making a killing.

Yes, I have received envelopes back last couple of years that had insufficient postage, but only on the ones where I had forgotten the 5 cent stamp (20 cent x4 + 5 cent x1).

Anyways, need to drop off another 15 envelopes shortly at my alternate post office, which also has a postmaster that's on the 90 cent side.

zee-chan · ‎01-31-2019

Same here. I never had any letter that I put 85 cents worth of stamps on returned to me.

momcqueen · ‎02-01-2019

I'm on hold with Canada Post right now.

While I wait, there's this:

momcqueen · ‎02-01-2019

The first answer I get is $1.05.

This is the second rep with which I've spoken and now I'm back on hold while she clarifies and confirms. I gave everyone the whole spiel.

No, you can mail it for 90 cents. If you bring all the postage from home, you only need 90 cents.

There we have it.

Everything the Canada Post website says is based on the premise that I am walking up to the counter and asking for a single stamp, she says.

Clear as mud.

For the record, I did not doubt the integrity of our postage-stamps people, but rather felt compelled to require Canada Post to explain themselves.

Also, this reasserts my position that P stamps are dumb. One rate to buy one at a time, scoff. Discount postage from your favourite ebay stamps dealer makes even more sense than ever.

meowmix14 · ‎02-01-2019

That is correct. $1.05 at the counter for single stamps, 90¢ if you use your own postage.
P stamps are very clever actually. The need to purchase 1¢, 2¢, etc stamps to compliment your postage every year the rates went up disappeared. You buy a booklet of P stamps and you are good for life, no need to worry every year if great grandma's birthday card has enough postage.