Canada Post RTS

[regs43]

Today I got a letter sent back to me which had discount postage on it (2 x $0.46) for the letter rate of $0.92. It had this sticker on it (see attached photo)

So I asked the lady working the counter why my letter was sent back (she is newer) and she went to ask a more senior lady who said to her understanding its becasue you need to have $1.07 on. Which I said to her "why the heck would anyone pay more then $0.92 when thats the rate." She didn't have an answer to that per say.

It wasnt my post office that sent my letter back, it made it to Ottawa and then got sent back with the attached yellow sticker. I guess some employees are unaware/miss trained that you can use stamps with denomination to make up the "P" rate and the $1.07 rate is only when you buy a single stamp.

I reached out on facebook messanger to my old Postmaster who moved offices in the summer and her reply was to indicate I was correct.  "92 cents is the rate for postage. But the 1.07 is the rate you pay at the counter because you didn’t purchase the stamps in a booklet. There is no reason that should have been returned as insufficient postage. I’d have "the clerk" date stamp over the two 46 cent stamps and have her send it out again."

Anyone else have one of these situations using the denominated stamps? I send thousands of things out a year and never seen this one! lol

Just thought to share my experience in case others have a similar issue at some point. I do live in a very small town and know all the post workers well, so no hard feelings to my great staff here in my town.

[kawartha-ephemera]

Sure, have run into this exact problem on one occasion this year. I don't believe that using discount postage was the issue, it was that someone, somewhere held the 1.07 belief (not my local PO) and slapped on a yellow return to sender sticker. Ended up resending it with a P the second time. 

[femmefan1946]

I  just strip off the label and drop it back in the mailbox.

If there is an actual problem, I will add another stamp (my scale is sometimes optimistic about weight), or repackage.

[dinomitesales]

Just an improperly trained Canada Post employee wasting your time. Remove the sticker and drop it back in the mailbox.

[zee-chan]

Had this happen before but it was for a value higher (like 100g letter). I wrote the addition math on the envelope and dropped it back into the mailbox. It didn't come back and I started writing the math for all my future discount postage letters since then, and haven't had another one returned. 

[fh991586]

The letter rate is indeed $1.07 OR a Permanent stamp.

You can buy discounted Permanent stamps that costed less than $1.07 in booklets only, but the amount visible in stamps MUST BE $1.07 minimum.  I've had the same discussion with some clerks at my local Post Office (the old breed, not new hired), and they showed me the explanation on an official Canada Post document.

If sometimes old stamps go through, it's only because of luck and limitation of surveillance; not because it's the good thing to do.

Check this page for clarification:
https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/personal/sending/letters-mail/postage-rates.page

"How to use old postage

You can still use older domestic stamps that display values instead of the letter P that PERMANENT stamps display. If the added value of your stamps is equal to or greater than the current stamp rate, you can use them to send your mail."

The current stamp rate is officially $1.07...

[fh991586]

Moreover, if you use Permanent stamps to add up for a bigger amount, those P stamps are presently worth $0.92 each, not $1.07!  Good to know, if you plan to use them for something else than a regular letter...

[marnotom!]

I agree with @fh991586.  There's no discounted letter mail rate.  It's the postage itself that's discounted, which is why you may find mail that's gone through a postage meter with amounts less than $1.07.  An item with two 46 cent stamps on it is one where the postage was purchased at face value.  There's nothing to indicate (i.e. a P stamp, a franking stamp, etc.) that the postage was purchased as part of a discount program

Clear as mud, right?

[ricarmic]

The reason that a single stamp that the PM puts on the envelope costs $1.07 is because we're paying for the postmasters time to put the stamp on the letter for us. (if we remember back to when they started charging us more for the posties to put the stamps on for us).

The current letter rate for a letter is 92c, which is the price one pays if one buys the stamps themselves in a booklet and puts them on themselves (the PMs can't sell a single stamp from a booklet, they can only sell single stamps as the $1.07 version).

Definitely the verbiage on the CP documentation is confusing, no wonder various folks have various opinions of what it is supposed to be.

The easiest way to translate the verbiage is that one is putting two "booklet stamps" on the envelope by themselves....now of course if you make your PM stick the stamps on the envelope then you'll need to have $1.07 😉

[marnotom!]

That's what I originally thought, too, @ricarmic, but when I went to the "find a rate for business" section of the Canada Post website, this is what came up for me for a standard letter:

The way I read the results and the fine print, $1.07 isn't a "premium" rate one pays for posting a single letter.  That's the standard lettermail rate.  Anything below that rate is considered a "discount" off that $1.07 amount.  (I hope the fine print in that screenshot is readable.)

[femmefan1946]

A "P" stamp is worth 92c.

The rate for a letter under 30g is 92c.

If you buy a single "P" stamp  the PO charges you taxes on the 92c.

If you buy a booklet the PO charges you taxes.

The Dominion of Canada has never demonetized a stamp. (Pre-Confederation stamps that are not in decimal currency are not accepted.)

You can also use those stamps of the Colony of Newfoundland which were sold in decimal currency on letters and parcels as part of the agree ment that brought Newfoundland and Labrador into Confederation in 1949.

Only Parliament can raise the price of a 30gram letter.

If Canada Post has raised the 92c rate, they did it without consulting Parliament and the rate is unenforceable.

[marnotom!]

I think the problem is that all references I've found to a standard piece of lettermail refer to "the cost of the stamp" rather than the charge for sending the item through the mail, if that makes any sense.

[ricarmic]

@marnotom! 

The "learn more" probably takes one to the other confusing page.

It really is no wonder one gets so many confusing and different answers when asking CP staff about stuff like this.

I am lucky because anytime I mail anything 30g sized within Canada, because I'm sending to stamp collectors, I am putting current "P" stamps on anyway as a matter of customer service, so I don't have this problem.

[fh991586]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong on this one.  Please consult this official Canada Gazette anouncement:

https://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2020/2020-01-08/html/sor-dors5-eng.html

It is not possible to buy a single stamp at 92c , because no P stamps are sold as one; it's a discounted price for booklets, coils or panes.

The regular rate for a stamp is really $1.07!

[marnotom!]

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@ricarmic wrote:

@marnotom! 

The "learn more" probably takes one to the other confusing page.

---

This is the page to which the "learn more" link leads:

https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/business/postal-services/stamps-meters.page

Though there's nothing explicitly stated, there's a suggestion that a roll of stamps is considered discount postage compared to the single stamp postage rate.

And just to make things really interesting, it appears that in 2020, Canada Post issued a collectors' set of stamps that actually had $1.07 as the face value:

https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/shop-magasin/p-401415118.jsf

[ricarmic]

@marnotom! 

The "collectors set" is simply a coil strip of 4 off the coil rolls the postmasters use to dispense their $1.07 stamps. (Collectors have traditionally collected coil stamps in strips of 4). So these are the same stamps that would be used if one purchased them at the counter and the PM put them on the letter.

CP is just using the opportunity to sell $4.28 of "collector stamps" in a way that reduces the likelihood they'll ever be used for postage, or by the time they are, it will cost $5.97 to send a first class letter.

[marnotom!]

Has Canada Post issued other stamps that bear face values of $1.07?

My point is that Canada Post probably wouldn’t issue stamps with a weird face value like that unless it was an official stamp price as opposed to a 15 cent surcharge on the “true” standard stamp price.

Then again, I haven’t had any luck finding stamps with 92 cent face values.

[dinomitesales]

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@marnotom! wrote:
Has Canada Post issued other stamps that bear face values of $1.07?

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Yes, you will find them at every post office in the country. It's what you're given if you go to the post office and want to purchase a single stamp. Or if you want a stamp with a value of $1.07 to make up postage.

You won't find a stamp that has 92 cents on it because that's the rate of a Permanent 'P' stamp. The 'P' (currently) equals 92 cents. Canada Post developed permanent stamps so they didn't have to keep re-issuing new stamps whenever the Lettermail rate went up, much like 'Forever' stamps in the U.S.

[meowmix14]

 

OMG!! I received the exact same sticker with the EXACT same handrwriting the other day! Could it be that it's only one rougue employee that doesn't know what's what? I love how they did the math in the corner.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@meowmix14 wrote:

 

OMG!! I received the exact same sticker with the EXACT same handrwriting the other day! Could it be that it's only one rougue employee that doesn't know what's what? I love how they did the math in the corner.

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@meowmix14 

@dinomitesales 

@femmefan1946 

Was the postage due 15 cents? Wasn't able to tell from photo. 

Wouldn't it be a  whole other can of worms if a letter comes back with the stamps cancelled. Then the full amount has to be repaid unless it is a situation of at clerks discretion??? Dropping it in box with added stamps & cancellation would most likely just cause another return to sender.

Whatever CP department that is causing this confusion/kefuffle should be dropped in a vat of tender vittles!!!

-Lotz