Help with Managed Payment Listing Fees

[supersavingsstore]

Hi everyone,

I want to clarify how Managed Payments fees will work. (I have already read the various help articles).

Putting insertion fees aside, is the fee for typical categories (ex. Cell Accessories) 12.35% of the final sale + $0.30CAD?

I am just wondering of whether this will actually result in savings for me like eBay says. I don't think it will, so if anyone could let me know if my below example makes sense, please do.

I sell mostly inexpensive items (less than $8.00), so I have a PayPal Micropayments account, which charges a 5% final value fee plus $0.05 per transaction.

Let's say I sell an item for $5.95 (my typical price). In the current system, I would pay $5.95 * 0.10 for eBay fees + ($5.95 * 0.05) + $0.05 for PayPal fees. The total fees I pay for this transaction is $0.94.

With MP, I would pay ($5.95 * 0.1235) + $0.30. That's $1.03 of fees.

I know that's not a very significant difference, but it's not giving me any savings like I thought it would. That will add up, eventually. Are my calculations correct and will this system not benefit those who sell lower priced items?

Thanks,

Adam

[recped]

Yes MP has the same three groups, Domestic, International (USA) and International (rest of the world).

The US rate will be 2.39% + 30 cents

The International Rate will be same as Domestic plus an extra 1.65% (total 4%)

These are all lower than PayPal but complicated because the old 10% fvf that is now combined with the payment fees will be applied to Sales Tax as well. This is something brand new never before seen as traditionally eBay never charged Final Value Fees on taxes (no matter if collected by the seller or by eBay).

[cumos55]

The following was found in a discussion on eBay.com.......

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We charge one final value fee when your item sells.

This fee is calculated as a percentage of the total amount of the sale, plus $0.30 per order.

 The total amount of the sale is the entire amount the buyer pays, including any handling charges, the shipping service the buyer selects, sales tax, and any other applicable fees

[cumos55]

This statement was in an eBay document.....  from a copy of that document transferred into the discussion.

The question is... Who placed the sales tax in the transaction?

Was it the seller or someone else?

[recped]

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@cumos55 wrote:

This statement was in an eBay document.....  from a copy of that document transferred into the discussion.

The question is... Who placed the sales tax in the transaction?

Was it the seller or someone else?

---

Who? Doesn't matter, it's either the seller or eBay! The important thing is that FVF's in either case were never applied to the amount of Sales Tax (I'm speaking of the "old" item value FVF)

[cumos55]

For Canada ….. It took a while to confirm this information

For all Canadian sellers…For purchases by Canadian buyers.

Final value fees are calculated as a percentage of the total amount the buyer pays, including shipping and handling. Sales tax is not  included.

This applies to Canadian sellers with a store and without a store.

-----

The following has been the reality for purchases by US Buyers.

An Internet Sales Tax is the new situation for all US Buyers. 

eBay adds an Internet Sales Tax to all sales, as required for a state.  Paypal then calculates a fee before eBay takes control of the amount for the Internet Sales Tax.

The question now is….. Will there be a FVF charged  on the Internet Sales Tax by Managed Payments on eBay Canada.

With eBay Canada the next step is to calculate GST/HST on the all fees….  This total for fees will include the fee on the Internet Sales Tax.

eBay Canada then sends the total for GST/HST collected to the Canada Revenue Agency…

If this is the situation with Managed Payments on eBay Canada, then a Canadian seller will be paying GST/HST on fees relating to a US Internet Sales Tax.  The Internet Sales Tax is not the responsibility of the Canadian seller paying the GST/HST amount…

OR…. Will eBay Canada  not charge FVF on the Internet Sales tax, the same as that currently done with the sales tax on all purchases by Canadian buyers.

This situation would apply only to eBay Canada.

[recped]

@cumos55 

Final value fees are calculated as a percentage of the total amount the buyer pays, including shipping and handling. Sales tax is not included.

Thanks for posting that, any chance you could cut and paste that specific bit about fees not being charged on GST.

I know I should register for MP and see for myself, I intend to do so but I going to be away for a couple of weeks and will do so when I get back.

If true that is good news for Canadian sellers who charge buyers GST/HST and will mean that overall I WILL save money using MP and therefore happy to get on board asap.

[cumos55]

Selling fees..... Final value fees... for Canadian sellers.... No FVF on Sales Tax  with Canadian sales.... when a sales tax is  charged by the seller

https://www.ebay.ca/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/selling-fees?id=4364&st=3&pos=1&query=Selling...

The link to selling fees for stores  ... Store Selling Fees ... is at the top of this page of information

This is selling fees ... FVF ... for today..... and should continue with Canadian sales and  Managed Payments.

eBay then calculates GST/HST on all fees and sends this amount to the Canada Revenue Agency

------

However .... The situation for sales to US buyers is different, as indicated...  It may change with Managed Payments.... compared to what happens with Paypal

This relates to how a FVF on the Internet Sales Tax  might cause a problem for eBay-Managed Payments, and in relation to the  calculation  of GST/HST on this FVF that is associated with the Internet Sales Tax, and  is then sent to Canada Revenue Agency.

[recped]

This is selling fees ... FVF ... for today..... and should continue with Canadian sales and Managed Payments.

I know what they are TODAY, don't care about that.

In the US under the "simplified system" eBay seems to have done away for the "no fees on taxes" on BOTH the payment processing AND the traditional fvf system.

This is what I want to know...will the new 12.35% rate be applied as it is going to be in the US for US sellers to the total of item+shipping+tax.

If it is, sales to Ontario will get hit with an extra 1.3% fee!

[cumos55]

Selling Fees for Managed Payments     

https://www.ebay.ca/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/selling-fees?id=4822

From that page.....

We charge one final value fee when your item sells, and you don't have to worry about third-party payment processing fees. This fee is calculated as a percentage of the total amount of the sale, plus $0.30 per order.

The total amount of the sale is the entire amount the buyer pays, including any handling charges, the shipping service the buyer selects, sales tax, and any other applicable fees. If you offer 1-day or international shipping as well as a cheaper or free option (like domestic shipping), the total amount of the sale is calculated based on the cheapest domestic option you offer. If you only offer 1-day or international shipping but no cheaper option like domestic shipping, the total amount of the sale is calculated based on the service the buyer chooses.

A New reality with Managed Payments.....

[cumos55]

I sell books... and I am registered to collect GST/HST on my sales.

Books are exempt from  provincial tax and to the  provincial component of HST.....Then for books ...   GST = HST = 5 %

There is no way for me to invoice a sale of a book to a buyer in Ontario  with an HST of 5% for the book and 13 % for shipping.  The same applies to an HST of 15 % for shipping to the four Atlantic provinces.

Therefore  I must add the tax amount ... GST/HST... to the price of the book and to the cost of shipping.  For me, eBay has always charged a FVF on the GST/HST  included in the price of the book and the cost of shipping

[recped]

I'm not sure you are getting it at all!

Right now you charge 13% HST to Ontario buyers on the total (item+shipping)

You pay a FVF of 10%* on the item+shipping and you pay PayPay their fee on the item+shipping+tax

Under the simplified plan you will pay 10% + 2.35% on the total including the taxes you charge

So that means an extra 1.3% fee on your sales to Ontario (10% of taxes charged by sellers)

What I am talking about has NOTHING to do with how a seller charges buyers taxes it has everything to do with how eBay may be planning to levy fees on SELLERS.

By the way, others have told you, the links you post for Managed Payments info are NOT viewable for anyone who has not yet signed up which is why I asked for the cut & paste.

If what you posted is an actual cut & paste it at least answers my other question about fees on shipping, looks like they will retain the calculation based on your lowest domestic amount regardless if the buyer pays more (except certain circumstances).

* just using the non-store rates for simplicity

[cumos55]

The information about FVF came from the Managed Payments page....

I have been working at home with a store on Vacation since March 16..

For me it has been a lot of new listings.....  I have collected a lot of new inventory

Then it has been COVID-19....  and everything else  that can make me focus on something other than eBay...

I have successfully registered for Managed Payments.....  and can see everything possible about Managed Payments.  I have learned a lot,  and must continue to learn more..... read more... learn more.

Evidently if someone wants to find out about Managed Payment they must register for Managed Payments..     In order to see and learn what I know, they will have to register for Managed Payments..

[recped]

Yes I plan to register when I get back in a couple of weeks.

One thing you said that is absolutely true, MP is the new reality good or bad and the bottom line for me is that if fees go up by a point or two it's not the end of the world or even unexpected. What selling costs haven't gone up?

Unlike some people apparently I have zero allegiance to PayPal, they have done nothing for me that couldn't be done by any other payment processor. I don't hate them either and will continue to use them for non-eBay sales.

It's about time I raised prices anyway, so far I've been doing it selectively with no negative effects so after I calculate the exact costs under the new system I'll do across the board increases.

[westcoastart2]

The biggest problem I see for Canadian sellers, is those who choose to list in US$ on .com

As most Canadian sellers may realize, if you list the same item in a Can$ auction on .ca and a US$ auction in .com, you will get a much higher price on the .com auction.

Generally any item that will be bought by a Canadian, should be listed in Canadian funds on .ca.     However as most items on ebay, sell in larger markets, like the US, then listing in Canadian funds, is a big mistake, that results in a  lower price.

As ebay is right now, a Canadian seller registered on ebay.ca can make an informed decision about whether to list their item in C$ or in US$ (if the latter, it goes on .com).

With the former you get paid in C$, and the latter US$.    

Presently these amount show up in your paypal account (C$ balance and US$ balance).

To transfer funds to your Canadian bank account, you have to convert the US$ in your paypal account to C$ in your paypal account - then transfer the C$ from paypal to your Canadian Bank account.

In most (if not all) Canadian banks, you can have a C$ account and/or a US$ account.

Paypal will only transfer Canadian Dollars to Canadian banks (regardless if you have a US$ account at your Canadian Bank).    I believe this is a legal matter, and something ebay will have to do too.

The problem arises with refunds.    If you sell an item in US$ that requires a refund, then it must be refunded in US$.   With paypal that's easy.   If you have a US$ balance in your paypal account, you refund the US$.     If you don't have US$ in your paypal account for the refund because you have already converted them to C$, then you have to convert C$ to US$ for the refund.    This means a refund that should be cost less fee wise - now comes with two exchange fees (or about 6-7%).    That's a big deal.

It sounds like Ebay is automatically going to pay sellers bank accounts after a sale with Managed Payments.    So in this case, if you sell a US$ item, ebay will convert the funds to C$ and send to your C$ bank account     If you later have to process a refund, ebay will take C$ from your bank account, convert back to US$ to make the refund.   And just like that, ebay has charged your two exchange fees that would not otherwise have occurred, and you are out 6-7%.

ie a $1000 refund, just cost you 60-70$ (every time) - even if all your selling fees are reversed.

Given eBay's requirement that buyers can return an item for a full refund for any reason they want, this is going to effectively block Canadain sellers from selling in US$ on ebay.com

That means Canadian sellers will loose an important  option as to which currency to use (USD or CAD), and will be effectively required to sell less items for less money (by being confined to C$ only).

This is great for competing US sellers, who no longer have to worry about Canadian competition, but it is very bad news for Canadian sellers who make a living selling on ebay.

Once again, ebay takes a working model and wrecks it.

Not sure how I'm going to adapt (this is not my only ebay site), but I suspect its going to force me to look for alternatives.

[brettjet38]

Shopify

GoDaddy

and a whole host of others, I will "control" by business, not feeBay.

I want ALL the info about MP - Beforehand, I am NOT a

[brettjet38]

yeah, what a F mess that was, finding out pictures were missing from listings!

Or missing descriptions,

broken links,

shopping cart issues,

combined shipping issues, 

vanishing listings issues,

checkout issues,

and the list I am sure goes on and on,

...and how many of those issues still exist years later!

And, eBay wonders why Sellers have no interest in MP.

[brettjet38]

Shopify

GoDaddy

That is what I am doing...

...and reducing my store on feeBay to a Basic plan and transfer the better quality items to my own store where I can market it as I wish, without the hand of feeBay stick in its little dirty fingers...

[ypdc_dennis]

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@westcoastart2 wrote:

... The problem arises with refunds.    If you sell an item in US$ that requires a refund, then it must be refunded in US$.   With paypal that's easy.   If you have a US$ balance in your paypal account, you refund the US$.     If you don't have US$ in your paypal account for the refund because you have already converted them to C$, then you have to convert C$ to US$ for the refund.    This means a refund that should be cost less fee wise - now comes with two exchange fees (or about 6-7%).    That's a big deal.

It sounds like Ebay is automatically going to pay sellers bank accounts after a sale with Managed Payments.    So in this case, if you sell a US$ item, ebay will convert the funds to C$ and send to your C$ bank account  

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Managed Payments deposits to your bank will be made either daily or weekly, not separately for each sale.

But your point about refunds is a big one because although PayPal now keeps their 3.7% fee, double currency conversion would do more damage. 

eBay could easily fix this issue by converting the refund back using the same original value.

In other words $70us >> $100cdn >> $70us

-..-

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

@ypdc_dennis 

This is already a problem with PayPal and refunds. I recently made a purchase with a US seller who after a week decided they weren't able to ship. By the time my refund was processed and due to "fluctuating" exchange rates my refund was almost $10.00 difference. It should be always based on the exchange rate at time of the original payment.

-Lotz

[femmefan1946]

@cumos55 

There is no GST/PST/HST due on exports from Canada.

That is a tax paid by the Canadian buyer.

There is no Internet Sales Tax due on imports to Canada.

The Internet Sales Tax is paid by the US buyer.