INR case prior est. delivery date!?

[rocketscollectibles]

Shipped lettermail and buyer jumped to claim money back. 6 days prior estimated delivery date.

How this is even possible? 

[mrdutch1001]

Oh yes indeed it is possible... and buyers do it....Today's buyers are very impatient...Today's buyers want that item NOW....in fact they want it yesterday!

Perhaps this buyer was expecting a very speedy delivery - like on that first available delivery date of Nov. 22nd which has now passed...(not all buyers understand that those dates are "estimates" and that there is a timeframe there that extends to December 5th).

[pjcdn2005]

It isn't supposed to be possible. I have heard of it happening once or twice but I don't know why it happens.  You might want to contact customer service and ask them to put a hold on the claim.

[pjcdn2005]

https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?...

Actions & time frames when the buyer doesn't receive an item

Action	Time frame
The buyer reports that the item hasn't arrived or was not available for collection	Earliest: Once the estimated or actual delivery/collection date has passed Latest: 30 calendar days after the estimated or actual delivery/collection date has passe

[ricarmic]

I have also had them opened before the END delivery date.

I surmise that they can open them anytime after the FIRST delivery date, at least that is my experience, so in your case they could open anytime after November 22....

[rocketscollectibles]

So i contacted support after seeing the policies and they brainless only ask about tracking. Saying case would close after it shows as delivered. So they allow buyers to open cases prior dates. They do not respect their own policies. Huge disrespect to lettermail as you cannot do anything while it's clearly against policies. Support was saying i did not ship and all (no tracking effect). Same thing hapenned about a buyer leaving a negative prior first date est. delivery recently. It's like i'm talking to united states support. They talk like they have no idea about lettermail. I'm speechless. I almost insulted the support i closed the chat. 

[rocketscollectibles]

I surmise that they can open them anytime after the FIRST delivery date

Looks like this is the case. 

It's total non-sense as policies very clearly states that earliest timeframe is the first day past delivery date. There's something broken there. It goes against what it's written in policies. 

[rocketscollectibles]

Can someone tag the support member in charge of the community now? To have explanation about the policies screenshot shared where a buyer is in rules not allowed prior estimated delivery is past to open a case. But then still can. And because it's lettermail, we're fked. This case should not have been allowed to be open before december 5th, and now, i must refund before december 5th. Just a help to false claims. 

[ricarmic]

devon@ebay 

Devon, in my case the case was opened the day after the FIRST predicted delivery date. Interestingly now that it has been delivered it doesn't let me see anymore what the predicted delivery dates were whilst it was in transit.

This is the request number: 5327304168

[edubb101]

Hey everyone,

Just a guess but what if the customer iniated the INR through their credit card company? Could this be what happened? 

All the best

[ricarmic]

Mine was via ebay, the customer opened it because there was messaging in the ebay "tracking" that showed that the item was damaged in transit (there was no messaging like this in USPS or Canada Post, that's been dicussed in a different thread).

[brettjet38]

Estimated and actual delivery dates

Under eBay Money Back Guarantee, time frames to report an issue or request a return may be based on:

• The estimated delivery date (the latest date in the estimated delivery range that was provided to the buyer at checkout), or
• The actual delivery date (the date that tracking confirms the item was delivered, or the date that an item was collected)

The table below sets out which of these applies when determining the latest date to report an issue or request a return.

When tracking shows the item was delivered/collected before the estimated delivery date	Actual delivery/collection date
When tracking shows the item was delivered/collected after the estimated delivery date	Estimated delivery date
When no tracking information is available	Estimated delivery date

Buyers can find estimated delivery information in their Purchase history. Sellers can find the estimated delivery information that was provided to the buyer at the top of their Order details page.

https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?...

[marmesza_0]

To talk to Ebay about this is like talking to a new born and expecting the baby to answer, Ebay does this all the time, once a buyer opened INR on me just after  5 days paid for  comic on Thursday and opened INR on Tuesday (3 working days?) and I am located in Canada ,buyer from USA. called Ebay those people who answeres the calls suppose to be like "Ebay staff" all they do is say the same fricken thing like they have this little book they read it from---"Oh I see you are a member since blah blah blah ....then they very politely ask your problem, after 45 minutes telling you this and that (I understand your frustration  etc..)---they say oh I will connect you to an other department...arghhhh..so I never call Ebay I do not waste my time, with "Ebay staff" I figured it out, I know more about Ebay then they do, they probably only know they work for Ebay because it is written down on that piece of paper, they read the instructions from, also I do admire when I talk with them and I hear kids laughing in the background, or hear them doing dishes or something,that tells me they are hired to work from home --------WITH NO EXPERIENCE WHAT SO EVER..they are only here to calm you down and talk nonsense ,,they listen to your problem and have no clue how to solve them, or help you out ,they are like a 3rd party for Ebay so they don't have to deal with minor problems.. do not waste your time calling Ebay...just saying 

[rocketscollectibles]

It was already posted and literally just pointing that there is contradiction in policies and what is truly allowed. 

Time frames to report an issue or request a return may be based on

The estimated delivery date

When no tracking information is available - Estimated delivery date

Estimated delivery date is december 5th, as shown, and buyer was allowed to open a INR november 29th. 

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

Most CSR's are not from Canada. They also don't have experience selling on eBay.ca. You have to go into a conversation with them and assume that they don't understand the norms of sellers on Canada sending lower-priced orders untracked. If you're discussing something related to lettermail shipments, you have to very clearly and carefully explain the context to them.

For example, if you're reporting a buyer who has abused untracked shipping and left feedback for all their transactions over a very short period of time that state the item didn't arrive. A CSR from a different country won't understand that it is mathematically impossible for a buyer to have 10 different orders from 10 different Canadian sellers not arrive in the same month. So you have to explain how untracked shipping is normal in Canada, why it's normal, and how 99+ percent of orders arrive safely.  

Most CSRs go off a script. So what they heard when you contacted them was "Why do I not have seller protection", even if you didn't say that - they answered with "You must send the item tracked. We do not have a record of a tracking code. Please provide one to resolve the case."

With that said, there is nothing you can do anyways, if the customer wants a refund for an untracked INR, they will get it.

I usually will reply with a form letter that states the address it was sent to. Apologizes for the delay with Canada Post, and promises to resolve the case with a refund by the deadline. I instruct the customer to close the case if the item has arrived. Or to refuse the package/message me for repayment if it arrives after the refund.

What likely happened was they contacted customer support, who opened it early for them because there was no tracking. It sucks, but on the grand scale of things it's not a huge deal. Things go wrong sometimes with online sales. If you choose to look at it on a per transaction basis, you're going to lose your mind everytime something goes poorly. I just look at it like, yeah this one transaction something went wrong, but the other 199 transactions before it went fine. 

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

CSRs can open INR cases manually.

It is possible that the buyer contacted eBay, and the CSR saw there wasn't tracking after x amount of weeks so they assumed the OP never sent it, and opened a case.

The above would be annoying, because lettermail can take 3-4 weeks this time of year, which is why people use that shipping estimate. With that said, there is nothing the OP can reasonably do other than handling the INR professionally as they would with any other INR.

Even if spending hours on the phone with CSRs might get them to one CSR who understands the nuances of the problem and somehow is able to extend the window for the INR case to be resolved, it would be a waste of time because there is no guarantee the item will arrive before the window and there is no guarantee the customer will close the case.

[rocketscollectibles]

It is possible that the buyer contacted eBay, and the CSR saw there wasn't tracking after x amount of weeks so they assumed the OP never sent it, and opened a case.

It may be the case. The support guy told me that i was passed my handling time like i did not ship. While i shipped same day and it was also marked as shipped same day. It was weird. Not normal that a buyer was able to claim refund 5 days prior stated ebay rules. 

[reallynicestamps]

Well, technically....  cue up ongoing arguement about using LetterMail for small low value shipments to the USA.... I won't participate in that.

We can use LetterMail to ship within Canada, no problem.

And we can use Registered Mail to track those shipments for less than Regular Parcel/Expedited.

But without tracking, we will lose every single Claim for non-delivery.

We can't even prove shipment, never mind delivery.

So there's that.

For the rest, there is Cookie Jar Insurance.

Which is putting a few pennies into a virtual Cookie Jar from every sale, and adding the even more virtual loonies we save by not using tracked services, to cover our costs for the occasional loss.

Losses will be higher in some high fraud categories, because of the customer demographic.

It's like i'm talking to united states support. They talk like they have no idea about lettermail. I'm speechless. I almost insulted the support i closed the chat.

This was Chat and not the phones.?

devon@ebay

[rocketscollectibles]

I just verified orders i had as buyer. We're december 8th, this order past the first est. delivery date december 7th, and the button to claim an item not received is not available. So how my buyer got allowed to do so on my sale? He contacted ebay and they broke their own policies by opening a case manually? I'm still lost on how this was possible and allowed. 

 

[brettjet38]

Was this a letter-mail item shipped within Canada which is legally allowed for under 20mm thick items?

or

Was this item shipped using Letterpost to the USA which is illegal for shipping goods and merchandise?

I do not seem to see the confirmation by you in this post as to where this item was shipped, you have not stated that "factoid" details do matter. And will influence the responses you get.

As we all know there would be no tracking if the Customs rules were circumvented to ship for cheap using Letterpost to the USA, eBay knows that and is doing this kind of refund when they know the shipper did not use a legit shipping method, cheap Tracked Packet to the USA  is to encourage going the legal route, but for those that refuse, the new UPU rules going into place next year will put an end to that...

And if you shipped it to the USA using LETTERPOST then you already know why the claim was opened/processed early, if you got asked for tracking and did not put one, they will process these claims early if a Buyer calls them and is in the USA.

The rules eBay operates by vary between countries and even provinces here in Canada, eBay has to operate by a whole set of different rules here in Quebec because we use the French civil law.

Quebec law is unique in Canada because Quebec is the only province in Canada to have a juridical legal system under which civil matters are regulated by French-heritage civil law. Public law, criminal law and federal law operate according to Canadian common law.