eBay

barnfindparts · ‎03-22-2019

Hello perhaps some more experienced ebayers could help out. Im am a top rated seller I recently sold some 1978 Oldsmobile Cutlass tailights to a buyer with zero feedback. I described the items as used with some damage with pictures. I was very up front about it. None of my ads offer returns but include free shipping.

Anyways i spent $50 CAD to ship the parts. New buyer with zero feedback request a return SNAD, claims there was damage not described. I disagreed, requested pictures of the damage, buyer does not respond. A few days pass the buyer calls into escalate files a case against me. Ebay sides with the new buyer. Now i have 4 days to provide the buyer with a shipping label or funds for shipping. My top rate seller status with 100% positive feedback means nothing to a buyer with zero feedback who alledges damage without so much as even providing pictures.

To ad insult to injury on top of already being out shipping to send it they want me to pay him to ship it back to me. If i don’t ill receive a defect.

pjcdn2005 · ‎03-22-2019

You are already going to get a defect because Bay was asked to step in and they decided in favor of the buyer. The best thing to do in those situations is to agree to the return before eBay gets involved as eBay rarely looks at the information when a not as described case is involved and they do not require a buyer to send pictures. When they do have to step in, they usually agree to let the buyer make the return. It is a he said/she said situation as they don't know what was sent or in what condition it was received in.

Your choice is to send a return label and refund upon return or just refund without a return. If you don't, eBay will debit your account anyway.

barnfindparts · ‎03-22-2019

Im under the impression i havent received a defect yet. As per ebay:

eBay Customer Support has placed the case on hold until Mar. 27 to allow time to provide additional documentation.
If you issue a refund now, the case will be closed, and you won't be held at fault.
We have asked for more information from your customer to confirm the condition of the item received. If any additional information is needed from you we will request it through an email.

pjcdn2005 · ‎03-22-2019

It does sound like there hasn't been a decision given yet so you're probably right, there has been no defect given yet. In your original post you said that ebay sided with the buyer so I thought that the case was decided and now closed but going by what you just wrote, they actually haven't decided with the buyer yet. I should have realized that when you mentioned you had 4 days to decide what to do.

reallynicestamps · ‎03-22-2019

Now i have 4 days to provide the buyer with a shipping label or funds for shipping.

If the buyer is in the USA you can buy a USPS return shipping label through Shippo.

Canada Post labels can also be purchased through Shippo or through SnapShip.

Then you send the label as a pdf to the buyer.

If the buyer does not use the label, you win the case, do not get a Defect and eventually the cost of the label will be refunded.

If he does use the label, you refund him when you get the parts back, put him on your Blocked Bidder List, and relist the parts.

If you don't provide the label, you lose the case, the buyer is refunded in full, the buyer keeps the parts, you get a Defect, and the buyer can leave appropriate feedback.

It's a maxim of eBay (and all online sales sites, really) that Buyers Don't Read.* (New buyers, like your 0 FB dimwit, are even more likely to buy first and read later, if ever.)

A Defect can mean a rise in your selling costs, restrictions on the number and value of your listings, and if there are "too many" defects the closing of your selling account.

If your problem transactions are less than one percent of your sales, that's normal in online retail.

* and a corollary that Sellers Don't Read either, notice how many sellers are Shocked, Shocked to learn that they cannot leave negative FB for buyers, a policy that has been in place since 2008.

barnfindparts · ‎03-25-2019

Wow, just floored this is the stuff ebay expects sellers to swallow on top of the thousands in fees paid to them. Going to step back and reconsider if this racket is worth pursuing further.

barnfindparts · ‎03-25-2019

I guess this kinda chat is frowned upon by ebay seeing as they they took the liberty to censor my last post

ichopshop · ‎03-25-2019

Have you investigated with the buyer if they'll take a partial refund and keep the item?

When I run into these kinds of issues, I quickly determine if the sale can be saved, if so, I'll try that first. If I don't think the sale can be saved, I approve the return (assuming eBay hasn't already done that for me) and/or issue a refund on the spot (depending on circumstances, having the item returned often isn't worth it).

Ian

tryubik-useonlyasdirected · ‎03-25-2019

Never offer partial refunds. Its a window to scammers. If the issue is legitimate then and only then. "Discounts" are usually the aim of this type of scam. In my humble experience anyhow.

After being burned by eBay in a similar case years ago I've learnt to never offer Free Shipping. (If someone files a case like this then you have to pay for shipping out of your own pocket both ways, it can be pricey.) If postage is cheap then you may be comfortable with the risk.

The current method used is accept the return. Send a USPS / FedEx return label immediately. Request it returned ASAP, packed as sent in original packaging. Stress the value of the item and the legitimacy of the transaction.

Also using a unique tamper proof "holographic" stickers with unique numbers. Take a photo of the item with the sticker when packing. Send an email when posted confirming the terms of sale. State in the listing & email "returns must have the unique sticker present and untampered."

Nobody should be aiding and abetting scammers. With today's tech it should be fairly straight forward to provide a better claims process.

ichopshop · ‎03-25-2019

I just noticed that you don't accept returns. You probably want to reconsider this policy. It's an expensive lesson that most eBay sellers learn at some point.

No Returns means you don't accept Returns, not that the customer can't get a full refund.

I'm actually surprised that eBay hasn't already issued a refund to the customer and let them keep the product (as per your policy).

Ian

tryubik-useonlyasdirected · ‎03-25-2019

@ichopshop brings up a good point.

Allowing returns within conditions fairs better than no returns.

Offering allows you more discretion. You want to control the situation as much as possible; the less direct eBay involvement the better.

It's surprising how responsive buyers can be when presented with facts & diplomacy.

ichopshop · ‎03-25-2019

Nobody should be aiding and abetting scammers. With today's tech it should be fairly straight forward to provide a better claims process.

Where does this Cynicism come from? I've been selling on eBay for 20 years and spent as much time in retail management. I can't remember a time that I thought a customer was trying to "scam" me with a return/refund. I've had relatively few issues with the items I've sold over the year, some caused by my errors, some caused by the customers. When I was in traditional retail and now that I sell online, I've always operated from the premise that a customer's concern is legitimate and it's my job to resolve that concern.

I don't think I could sell online if I thought there was a scammer hiding around every corner.

Ian

tryubik-useonlyasdirected · ‎03-25-2019

No cynicism. eBay is full of scammers and fantastic friendly buyers (thankfully it tips to the better). To deny one is to ask for trouble. As you say, always operate under legitimacy.

The partial refund scam is a popular one, perhaps we sell different things or have different gravity. FB given to sellers often shows patterns of abuse.

Buyers remorse is not a not as described. Photographs can provide proof of damage. Postal claims are postal claims. Vintage is not new in box. 3 parts is 3 parts. Returns are returns. If you make an error, do good on it, this is typically where partial refunds come in handy (thankfully infrequently).

reallynicestamps · ‎03-25-2019

While buyer remorse is not an accepted reason for the seller to pay return shipping, none of the ploys described are considered by eBay (or Paypal) in deciding who pays for return shipping.

Because the buyer is going to get his refund. The only questions are who pays for return shipping and will the seller have anything saleable (at any price) in the end.

An unhappy buyer is not going to want to go through an unfamiliar process (packing up an unwanted item and taking it to the PO) and also pay for the privilege.

Add to that, he may well be mad at himself for ordering the unwanted item and pushing that annoyance over to the seller.

I blame Timothy Eaton myself. "Satisfaction Guaranteed or Your Money Refunded". Terrible idea. It only took him 130 years to go broke with that foolish policy.

barnfindparts · ‎03-25-2019

How does ebay expect me to provide a return shipping label from a different country?

pjcdn2005 · ‎03-25-2019

@ichopshop wrote:
I just noticed that you don't accept returns. You probably want to reconsider this policy. It's an expensive lesson that most eBay sellers learn at some point.

No Returns means you don't accept Returns, not that the customer can't get a full refund.

I'm actually surprised that eBay hasn't already issued a refund to the customer and let them keep the product (as per your policy).

Ian

Even if the seller has a no return policy, ebay does not automatically issue a refund to a the buyer without requiring a return unless the seller will not cooperate with accepting a return..providing a label etc.

pjcdn2005 · ‎03-25-2019

If the buyer is in the US and you used Shippo to print the label, you should be able to provide a return label through Shippo. If they are elsewhere you will have either figure out yourself what the return cost will be or ask them to let you know the cost and then send the money for the label through Paypal. Don't send it through friends and family, send it as a payment for a service.

ricarmic · ‎03-25-2019

@ichopshop wrote:

Nobody should be aiding and abetting scammers. With today's tech it should be fairly straight forward to provide a better claims process.
Where does this Cynicism come from? I've been selling on eBay for 20 years and spent as much time in retail management. I can't remember a time that I thought a customer was trying to "scam" me with a return/refund. I've had relatively few issues with the items I've sold over the year, some caused by my errors, some caused by the customers. When I was in traditional retail and now that I sell online, I've always operated from the premise that a customer's concern is legitimate and it's my job to resolve that concern.

I don't think I could sell online if I thought there was a scammer hiding around every corner.

Ian

I agree. Even though we as the seller may feel very differently, for whatever reason the buyer feels there is a problem.

When I am faced with this situation there is more too it than just the principle, there is the aspect of how much time and money does it cost me to resolve/fix it. At least in my (stamp) world, my standard process is to try to quickly arrive at a reasonable partial refund to resolve the situation. This is almost always the quicker, and much less expensive way for me to resolve the issue.

If perchance my spider senses are tingling, I'll block the buyer afterward, but I must also mention that much much more frequently, someone who I've granted a partial refund to returns as a happy repeat buyer many times over.....so clearly they were not a scammer!

femmefan1946 · ‎03-25-2019

@barnfindparts

a return shipping label from a different country?

If the buyer is in the US, go to your Shippo account.

You can buy a USPS shipping label there.

You may be able to buy US /UPS etc labels too. And possibly other countries.

I've only had to do this once, and when the ~~scammer~~ buyer did not use the label to return the item, I won the Dispute and eventually the label cost was refunded.

maximus7001 · ‎03-26-2019

"If the buyer is in the US, go to your Shippo account.

You can buy a USPS shipping label there.

You may be able to buy US /UPS etc labels too. And possibly other countries.

I've only had to do this once, and when the scammer buyer did not use the label to return the item, I won the Dispute and eventually the label cost was refunded."

This is your answer. Do it right now before ebay refunds the idiot.