eBay

takatakaman77 · ‎08-04-2022

Hi guys,

I sold a game console in December 2021. I uploaded the tracking, order was delivered in December, everything was good.

In February, a buyer opened a dispute saying he didn't receive the console. I was away for work and I missed the dispute notice and by the time I saw it, it was too late to respond to the dispute. Since I didn't respond, ebay said it went to the buyer's financial institution and he was refunded.

-Why did I need to respond when all the info was there -including tracking and delivery info. ebay says that a response with tracking would have ruled in my favor, but the info was already all there. It makes no sense.

-ebay responded to the buyer's financial institution and they provided all the info. I don't think they really fought for me.

-ebay doesn't even want to refund the seller fees, or give any credits at all. They told me it's the "cost of doing business"

-I was told to physically write to ebay for an official response. After 2 months, they said they lost the first letter, so I had to send in another one. They then responded via email but I was initially told they don't have an email address that I could write to.

-Lastly, the buyer had a new account with 0 feedback. My account has over 400 review and it's more than 15 years old. They didn't take that into consideration at all.

My understanding is that my duties as a seller were fulfilled when the product was delivered to the address on file. Am I wrong here?

Does anybody have any success taking ebay to small claims court?

mrdutch1001 · ‎08-04-2022

8 months after the fact so there is little that any of us can offer for advice...

as to small claims court...that is anyone's guess...

we here in the community rarely see any follow-ups to such actions or any "success" stories regarding resolution by that means...

reallynicestamps · ‎08-04-2022

Small Claims Court where?
In Canada? EBay does have an office in Toronto.

In the USA? EBay is in Seattle WA, I believe.

Some of their financial stuff is run out of Switzerland.

And Managed Payments is run by Ayden which is in the Netherlands.

You might win. You might get a judgement.

How would you collect?

That being said, it's my understanding that when we signed on as members, we agreed that eBay would be the final arbitrar of promblems like this.

I hope the loss was not a lot of money.

marnotom! · ‎08-05-2022

@takatakaman77 wrote:

My understanding is that my duties as a seller were fulfilled when the product was delivered to the address on file. Am I wrong here?

No and yes. If the item arrived damaged, you would be responsible for giving the buyer a refund if they opened a case, claim or dispute for an "item not as described."

(You'd be then responsible for pursuing an insurance claim with the carrier you chose.)

@takatakaman77 wrote:

Does anybody have any success taking ebay to small claims court?

On what grounds would you be filing? From what you're posting, it sounds as though a credit card chargeback was filed against you. eBay is the "merchant of record" and the party the credit card issuer is pursuing on the buyer's behalf. It sounds as though eBay followed its procedures to the letter.

takatakaman77 · ‎08-05-2022

My main issues are as follows:

-Why did ebay allow the dispute to proceed? they claimed that had I responded the dispute would have been rejected by ebay . They said they needed me to state that it was shipped and delivered. Was that not evident with the tracking info uploaded on my account? Why didn't they reject the dispute? Since I missed the window to respond, my understanding is that ebay should be stepping in to review, all the facts, yet they still allowed it to proceed to the buyer's financial instution. We pay seller fees for a reason.

-If they looked at all the facts it was quite obvious this was a scam. Why would someone open a non delivery case TWO months after it was shown as being delivered. Doesn't that look off? They didn't even bother to message me before opening the dispute. Again, on top of it, it was a brand spanking new account purchasing an expensive item.

-What also irritates me is that the ebay won't even refund the seller fees for the item. They collected every cent from the transaction. The exact words I got were "It is the cost of doing business."

-They advised me to write to ebay to see if it can be solved by upper management. It took 2 letters and 4 months. They claimed that they lost the first letter after 8 weeks. I sent another one and I got a an email response after another 8 weeks. Why couldn't they provide this email in the first palce?

marnotom! · ‎08-05-2022

@takatakaman77 wrote:

My main issues are as follows:

I wasn't asking about your issues. I was asking about the legal grounds on which you feel a case in small claims court would be standing. Bear in mind that I'm no lawyer, but my understanding of a case like this is that you should be able to prove that the chargeback defence procedures, which you essentially agreed to when you accepted the eBay User Agreement, caused your loss.

Sure, the timing of the claim looks suspicious, and the fact that you didn't get the letter you were promised is irksome, but I don't think that those factors would be considered as contributing to your loss.

As for why eBay asked for the tracking number at the start of the dispute when you'd provided that information in the course of the transaction, I don't know, but as this is how all disputes are handled, I guess there has to be some consistency in how the process is handled to ensure its validity. It may be a bit like having to re-enter a new password when you provide one to make sure that the information is correct. Keep in mind that eBay is behind the eight ball here. It's trying to provide information that the credit card issuer wants and the outcome of the dispute is dependent on the information provided.

mrdutch1001 · ‎08-05-2022

Just what exactly do you think the eBay community can do for you ? We cannot undo what has been done. We do not know what or why eBay does what it does in these situations. We cannot offer what we don't know...

Although we may understand your grievance, there is nothing to suggest to you that will change the situation or make it better. This is a matter between you,eBay,the buyer and whomever else you choose to involve to get whatever resolution/satisfactory result that YOU want...

Yes it is irritating, yes it is frustrating, and yes we all know the incompetence of eBay support and no this has not been a good outcome for you, but if you feel you must pursue this further, perhaps you need to engage in an attorney to see if the matter is worth the $ to invest in deciding what to do going forward.

Sometimes we just have to suck it up, chalk it up to a life lesson learned...

life does not always give us what we want...

C'est la vie! Que sera sera...

msau4301 · ‎08-05-2022

This is awful that it has happened to you and while I can't address the Small Claims issue (others have addressed this here) another thing to consider is that order history and tracking doesn't stay indefinitately.

Several years back I had a buyer contact me (he hadn't opened a claim, this was a message to me) about an item he said he never received from a few months prior. I immediately tried to look up the order information and it was no longer there (eBay only has it accessible to us for 90 days, back then I believe it was only 60 days). I contacted him to say I wish he had told me earlier since I had no access to the order and related tracking after this amount of time - he never responded back.

I'm not sure if you used Canada Post or another service or how long they keep tracking information but hopefully you have a print out (or screen shot of the confirmation).

Although it doesn't happen often, even though items show delivered there is an occassional time where it was sent to the wrong address, someone nabbed it from the porch etc. It is possibly for this reason eBay wants the seller to do the leg work of trying to research with the carrier more precise details. After this amount of time I don't think they would even have access to the order details with the corresponding tracking.

Good luck to you though!

takatakaman77 · ‎08-05-2022

As I was digging through the forums, it seems to be a new issue with the managped payments program.

Proof of delivery would have been enough to for the seller protection to kick in.

https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/Hidden-Secret-about-Ebay-Managed-Payment/td-p/457425/pag...

The delivery/tracking was all there. I guess they didn't even bothere clicking in to the tracking number to cheeck that it had been delivered.

Anyways, thanks for all your input. If it was a $50 item, I probably would have given up but it's a $650 item so it's not chump change.

msau4301 · ‎08-05-2022

That is a lot of money, I feel your pain, especially since you thought all was well than had to travel for work assuming all was well. Mine was before Managed Payments so things would have been different (though the silence from my buyer spoke volumes and saved me in the end). The amount of time an order stays available to view/refer to I think is still fairly short (90 days). As you say I guess we can never assume they "bother clicking to check" and it is put back on us to respond and/or check ourselves. Always a lesson to be learned!

marnotom! · ‎08-05-2022

@takatakaman77 wrote:

As I was digging through the forums, it seems to be a new issue with the managped payments program.

Proof of delivery would have been enough to for the seller protection to kick in.
https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/Hidden-Secret-about-Ebay-Managed-Payment/td-p/457425/pag...
The delivery/tracking was all there. I guess they didn't even bothere clicking in to the tracking number to cheeck that it had been delivered.

Maybe my brain is heat-addled, but I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Are you sure you posted a link to the correct thread?

The two situations discussed in that thread are different than yours. One of those disputes is for a "transaction not recognized" and the other is for an "item not as described." The second situation doesn't require tracking information, and in the first situation, the seller does mention that they uploaded tracking information.

The main issue in your case is that you didn't indicate that you wanted to challenge the dispute. Providing the tracking number is an indication that you are challenging the dispute.

flipistics · ‎08-05-2022

It's too late now, but in the future, assuming you sent it insured (and electronics may or may not be covered), you may be able to recover the cost there. The bank has basically certified that the buyer never received it (even though they probably did). That might be enough evidence to trigger the insurance.

If you were going to sue anybody, it seems like the buyer would be the one to go after.

One thing I might suggest is to file a police report (you did record the serial number, right?). You can send that to eBay, and it might be enough to get reimbursed. It might also cause the device to stop working for the buyer, which is ... perfect! A lawsuit against the buyer might also allow you to obtain the name of the person who now has the console from Microsoft or Sony, etc since they probably have created an account. If it matches the buyer, you have a slam dunk case.

femmefan1946 · ‎08-06-2022

they claimed that had I responded the dispute would have been rejected by ebay . They said they needed me to state that it was shipped and delivered. Was that not evident with the tracking info uploaded on my account?

No.

EBay wants to be assured that the seller is still actively engaged with the account.

There are "take the money and run" scam sellers

It is possibly for this reason eBay wants the seller to do the leg work of trying to research with the carrier more precise details.

EBay does purge their records after 90 days.

Which is why I print out all my invoices. And have seven years worth at the bottom of the cupboard.

As for why eBay asked for the tracking number at the start of the dispute when you'd provided that information in the course of the transaction, I don't know, but as this is how all disputes are handled,

Again a mixture of purged records and confirming seller engagement?

Since I missed the window to respond, my understanding is that ebay should be stepping in to review, all the facts, yet they still allowed it to proceed to the buyer's financial instution. We pay seller fees for a reason.

We pay seller fees for the opportunity to list on a world wide classified ad site and the ability to receive payments without having to qualify for a merchant credit card account, and to some extent for discounts on shipping costs.

marnotom! · ‎08-06-2022

@femmefan1946 wrote:

We pay seller fees for the opportunity to list on a world wide classified ad site and the ability to receive payments without having to qualify for a merchant credit card account, and to some extent for discounts on shipping costs.

Great post. A lot of sellers tend to conveniently forget the infrastructure (as buggy as it can be sometimes) that their fees go toward. My only quibble is that calling eBay a "classified ad site" is a bit inaccurate precisely because this infrastructure means that eBay is much more involved in the sale than what I'd call a "classified ad site," e.g. Kijiji, the 'List, the 'Book.

zee-chan · ‎08-09-2022

@flipistics wrote:

One thing I might suggest is to file a police report (you did record the serial number, right?). You can send that to eBay, and it might be enough to get reimbursed. It might also cause the device to stop working for the buyer, which is ... perfect! A lawsuit against the buyer might also allow you to obtain the name of the person who now has the console from Microsoft or Sony, etc since they probably have created an account. If it matches the buyer, you have a slam dunk case.

I think contacting the console's maker with the serial number is a good start, they might be able to verify whether or not that console is actively being used (assuming whoever playing it has an online account for the games).