CP 30g Lettermail Rate, What is it 1.07 or 0.92? The "P" Debate That Never Ends. (Part 2)

[fh991586]

This thread is a follow-up to the following:

CP 30g Lettermail Rate, What is it 1.07 or 0.92? The "P" Debate That Never Ends.

https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/CP-30g-Lettermail-Rate-What-is-it-1-07-or-0-92-The-quot-...

The thread was closed by a mod because it was too old, as per eBay policy, even though the subject is still relevant.

When you check the official price sheet for business or consumers, it clearly states that if you don't use a P stamps for lettermail up to 30gr, you must use $1.07 worth of stamps (for today's rate, which may change in the future).

https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/doc/en/support/prices/business-prices.pdf (p.14)

https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/doc/en/support/prices/consumer-prices.pdf (p.12)

[fh991586]

If you put $0.92 worth of loose stamps on the letter, it might work.  But consider this at your risk.  Same thing for the advice to use 2 P stamps (worth $1.84) instead of $1.94 for the 100gr rate...

There were 2 files showing different informations on the previous thread, but no provenance was clearly stated, nor if public had access to it.  I can say that when I asked questions about this to my local post master, they used the public information to answer me, which I could confirm by myself on the website.  If they had another book to look from, they did not mention it, so its use as an official document is not confirmed.

I really wish it was simple and the same for everyone, but remember it's Canada Post we are talking about! 😉

[recped]

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@fh991586 wrote:

When you check the official price sheet for business or consumers, it clearly states that if you don't use a P stamps for lettermail up to 30gr, you must use $1.07 worth of stamps (for today's rate, which may change in the future).

https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/doc/en/support/prices/business-prices.pdf (p.14)

https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/doc/en/support/prices/consumer-prices.pdf (p.12)

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"Clearly"????? The only thing clear to me is that the postage value for a standard letter is 92 cents.

[snoopwiz]

  Same thing for the advice to use 2 P stamps (worth $1.84) instead of $1.94 for the 100gr rate...

Aparently it is written in the Canada Post employee handbook that they are to allow through any package or parcel that is 10 cents or less than what it should be.  In theory then, using 2 "P" stamps for a 0-100 gram large envelope should be ok.  Assuming all C.P employees are aware of that. Now there is an assumption. 

[ricarmic]

To my mind an important thing to consider is the risk of return by PO folks that are disbelievers.

Late shipments don't take long to cause grief here, for that reason I wouldn't be testing the waters on that myself. We've seen others getting stuff back so it is happening to some.

As I've mentioned in the other thread(s) on the topic I've got it easier because I only use "P" stamps on 30g anyway, and I get my bits and pieces postage for 50% face, so the extra 10c on a $1.94 is only 5c for me, which isn't worth the risk either. (although my PO folks would be on my bum anyway according to their understanding of the "rules" in the PO Manual on the topic).

[marnotom!]

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@fh991586 wrote:

When you check the official price sheet for business or consumers, it clearly states that if you don't use a P stamps for lettermail up to 30gr, you must use $1.07 worth of stamps (for today's rate, which may change in the future).

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Did you post links to the correct pages?  What I see on those pages is information to the effect that the purchase of a single stamp for a domestic lettermail item under 30 grams is $1.07.  Single.  Stamp.

[fh991586]

Have you simply read the 2 links, or checked the enclosed screenshot with highlights?

Stamps from a booklet or a coil are P, which cost $0.92 each when bought as a bundle.  Individual stamp(s) are $1.07, because you can't buy a P individually.

[fh991586]

This handbook doesn't seem to have been circulated evenly through all outlets, or isn't known to every employees.  So it's best to follow the information posted on the Canada Post website, because you can back your point easily with this.

[kawartha-ephemera]

Earlier this year I received a letter sent to me by one of the larger arms of the federal government, I thought of the P debate the moment I noticed that the stated postage paid was 0.92
The true cost would have been much lower than even that of course but I thought it was interesting that the rate shown was 0.92

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@kawartha-ephemera wrote:
Earlier this year I received a letter sent to me by one of the larger arms of the federal government, I thought of the P debate the moment I noticed that the stated postage paid was 0.92
The true cost would have been much lower than even that of course but I thought it was interesting that the rate shown was 0.92

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@kawartha-ephemera 

Most likely due to volume they access discounted postage (meter) rates. I worked for a national company in Wpg a number of years back and that's how it worked.

https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/business/postal-services/mailing/letter-discounts.page

In theory that is what should be happening with eBay labels. Considering mail is being processed under the Ebay banner under a master account vs a sellers small business account and in most cases the run of the mill level 1 discount.

-Lotz

[flipistics]

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@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

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In theory that is what should be happening with eBay labels. Considering mail is being processed under the Ebay banner under a master account vs a sellers small business account and in most cases the run of the mill level 1 discount.

-Lotz

Unfortunately that would likely only be possible if we had something like "fulfilled by ebay". Since everyone is shipping items from a different location, what banner it's under is probably meaningless. There ARE lots of things eBay could be doing to help us with shipping though.

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[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@flipistics wrote:

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@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

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In theory that is what should be happening with eBay labels. Considering mail is being processed under the Ebay banner under a master account vs a sellers small business account and in most cases the run of the mill level 1 discount.

-Lotz

Unfortunately that would likely only be possible if we had something like "fulfilled by ebay". Since everyone is shipping items from a different location, what banner it's under is probably meaningless. There ARE lots of things eBay could be doing to help us with shipping though.

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@flipistics 

The company I worked for had branch offices in every province. All under 1 account number. It's called a volume discount. We had the option of doing that with Puro, Loomis, Fedex and UPS. Or we could negotiate locally.

With Shippo there is no problem linking your CP small business account and believe that was possible with PayPal but not positive. When it was asked by several Canadian sellers when eBay labels was rolled out there was no answer or explanation given. Adds to the hmmm factor!! Shouldn't sellers buying postage have the opportunity to increase that discount if they sell in high volumes? 

-Lotz

[pjcdn2005]

From the last link in your original post.

"The PermanentTM stamp is a non-denominated stamp with a postage value of $0.92"

It seems quite clear that a P stamp is worth .92 cents which means the lettermail rate for up to 30 gr is .92.   There were a number of posts on the last thread that confirmed that. I'm not sure why you disagree but imo the debate should end.

[flipistics]

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@flipistics 

The company I worked for had branch offices in every province. All under 1 account number. It's called a volume discount. We had the option of doing that with Puro, Loomis, Fedex and UPS. Or we could negotiate locally.

With Shippo there is no problem linking your CP small business account and believe that was possible with PayPal but not positive. When it was asked by several Canadian sellers when eBay labels was rolled out there was no answer or explanation given. Adds to the hmmm factor!! Shouldn't sellers buying postage have the opportunity to increase that discount if they sell in high volumes? 

-Lotz

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Yeah, but it's still out of a very small number of locations presumably. This is actually one of the areas where I think eBay could really, really improve things (having local collection points), because then they COULD negotiate better rates in theory.  As for eBay labels and linking our accounts, yeah, that's a problem and is the main reason why I don't use eBay labels.

[reallynicestamps]

The rate is 92cents.

If you buy a single stamp you will be charged GST plus a service charge which raises the cost to $1.07.

I really don't understand why people who every day buy things in shops where the price marked is lower than the price paid, due to sales taxes addes at the cash register, can't get this through their heads.

If you buy a booklet of stamps, say 10 for $9.20, there will still be GST charged but no service charge, so you will pay $9.66. 

But the rate is still 92c.

[reallynicestamps]

The rate is 92cents.

If you buy a single stamp you will be charged GST plus a service charge which raises the cost to $1.07.

I really don't understand why people who every day buy things in shops where the price marked is lower than the price paid, due to sales taxes addes at the cash register, can't get this through their heads.

If you buy a booklet of stamps, say 10 for $9.20, there will still be GST charged but no service charge, so you will pay $9.66. 

But the rate is still 92c.

You can use two 46c stamps to pay the rate.

You can use two 45c stamps and a 2c stamp to pay the rate.

You can use three 25 cent stamps and a 17c stamp to pay the rate.

You can even use Newfoundland stamps to pay the rate, but you'd need a lot of them since NF stopped printed their own stamps when they joined Confederation in 1949.

The Dominion of Canada has never demonetized any stamps. So you can use stamps with the image of Queen Victoria, King Edward VII, King George V, King George VI as well as current stamps.

[kawartha-ephemera]

Large organizations with CP contracts have access to regular first class lettermail at very attractive rates. According to info published on the CP website those able to guarantee substantial annual volumes of lettermail pay only 0.75 per letter. Seems to me there may be room there for ebay to work with CP towards developing something similar as what ebay did with USPS to come up with their quasi tracked lettermail offering. What do they call that in ebay shipping, Select Letter? Wouldn't it be nice to have something similar to that offered here in Canada even if it were for Canadian addresses only.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@kawartha-ephemera wrote:

Large organizations with CP contracts have access to regular first class lettermail at very attractive rates. According to info published on the CP website those able to guarantee substantial annual volumes of lettermail pay only 0.75 per letter. Seems to me there may be room there for ebay to work with CP towards developing something similar as what ebay did with USPS to come up with their quasi tracked lettermail offering. What do they call that in ebay shipping, Select Letter? Wouldn't it be nice to have something similar to that offered here in Canada even if it were for Canadian addresses only.

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eBay has stated on numerous occasions that they have wanted to "level the playing field". Unfortunately this is never how it works out for Canadian sellers and/or buyers in many cases. Between how eBay punishes us with the FVF's on expedited shipping (for parcels, it's pretty much the only option in Canada) and how CP punished us with removal of Light Packet Air and constantly increasing fuel surcharge  it is making very difficult for many Canadian sellers to sell and ship anything and still remain competitive.

Something like that for letter in Canada would be awesome for the sellers it would help, but doesn't appear to be on anyone's radar to happen. On the parcel side even if they could decrease the required amount to something lower, (2000.00 vs the current 2500.00) level 2 would be a nice carrot.

-Lotz

[fh991586]

I'm sorry, but you are totally wrong.  The rate is not 92c, but you can benefit from a rebate if you purchase a booklet or a coil.

If you buy stamps outside from a coil or booklet, you will pay $1.07 PLUS taxes.  The prices in the guide I put in my starting post are listed before taxe(s).

I have no idea where you get that "service charge" over the GST, because it doesn't exist in Canada.  You may have to pay a provincial taxe on top of the GST if it applies to your area.

[fh991586]

The debate isn't over because people still thinks (and claim erroneously) that the rate is 92c, while the information in the public guides I put up in the first thread clearly states $1.07!  You benefit from a rebate on this rate ONLY if you buy in bulk (booklet, coil) or have a postage machine.

Even in the latest news from Canada Post regarding the 2023 rates, it's still listed as $1.07 for stamp(s) that didn't come from a booklet or coil...

https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/doc/en/support/LM-e.pdf