Comments about the Global Shipping Program

Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here. 

 

A few questions to get the ball rolling:

 

  • What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
  • Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
  • What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
  • How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Please try & keep the comments constructive 🙂

 

If you have any questions about the program, please post them here.

~Kalvin
eBay.ca Community Manager

kalvin@ebay.com

Message 1 of 6,171
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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

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I*m-still-here wrote:

Yes, and note how marmo jumps from my post pointing put that media attention might have side effects to shouting out his point of view on paying taxes?

 

Looking for a pat on the head are we?

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Actually it looks like every time marnotom! posts anything you are right there to criticise him without reading the post at all. The way I read the thread he was commenting on was yours about taxes and had nothing to do with the media.

Message 2061 of 6,171
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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

Ya think?

Message 2062 of 6,171
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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

Last I checked, this thread was a collection of comments about the Global Shipping Program, which go beyond a campaign to take it to the media.

 

I'm still wondering how the possibility of media attention leading to all items with declared values of above $20 being assessed and charged appropriate taxes and duties is so earth-shatteringly terrible.

 

Care to blow away that smokescreen you threw up, i*m?

Message 2063 of 6,171
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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

Hey everyone,

 

We're getting off the topic of GSP here and venturing into territory that's against the guidelines - hostile comments and interpersonal disputes.

 

Let's keep the boards a welcoming place for everyone.

 

Thank you for your help!

-----------------------------------------
Help us keep the community friendly and fun for everyone, check out the Guidelines
Message 2064 of 6,171
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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program


@marnotom! wrote:

Last I checked, this thread was a collection of comments about the Global Shipping Program, which go beyond a campaign to take it to the media.


 

Comments that are at best being converted into numbers of "who's unhappy" and "who's happy" for statistical purposes to be used at meaningless meetings, where any suggestions listed in this thread to improve the programme are ignored by PBI's management (while hiding behind eBay). The only alternative I see is to seek assistance through other means to get questions not speculated upon or sprinkled with feel-good PR boilerplate of "we take your concerns very seriously", but authoritatively and clearly answered.

 

You, I, and practically everyone on these forums can only speculate about the programme's full administration and operation beyond the advertising, FAQs and T&C's littered around, we can also only speculate on whether this is healthy for Canadian consumers or not from our own personal experiences and viewpoints.

 

Even the eBay employees that go through these forums have to constantly talk to the "GSP Team" who seems to not be interested in coming to these forums themselves to answer questions and clear the record for once and for all and accept the input from the userbase as not statistics, but fact that consumers are indeed dissatisfied and accept the reasons that have been repeated for more than 2000 posts now and hundreds, potentially thousands on other forums across the Internet.

 

It is time to cut to the chase.

 


I'm still wondering how the possibility of media attention leading to all items with declared values of above $20 being assessed and charged appropriate taxes and duties is so earth-shatteringly terrible.


 

It's not terrible and I'd pay if requested by our (the Canadian) government, though paying through a foreign company who has no accountability to our government whatsoever and would hang me out to dry at the drop of a hat is however is "earth-shatteringly" terrible. Why?

 

The reason I say this is that eBay and PBI both have measures in their agreements that absolve them of any disputes AND that the "Import Charges" is a meaningless term to the average consumer and I have no legal proof to submit to customs (duty) or the CRA (tax) in the event they fail to get paid to their satisfaction by PBI.

 

Why should I have to make money leave the Canadian economy to an unaccountable party to pay Canadian taxes? It doesn't make sense.

 

The programme on the side of the consumer is too complex and bureaucratic to be healthy when laid on top of existing legal structures that have existed for centuries before the parents of the founders of eBay and PBI were even born. I'm not one to cart around tradition, however the principle remains — people know how to pay traditionally for duty and tax, the processes are laid out and well known (pay on delivery or go to the customs office). There are mechanisms to dispute incorrect assessments (which the GSP lacks).

 

How about we keep this simple and not add more layers of abstraction onto logistics that confuse and disorient consumers? Logistics is already impossibly complex with millions of packages flying though hundreds of interoperating systems per day, one cog in the logistics chain breaks and a package may go missing or become damaged. PBI is inserting more cogs that may and have failed into that system and try to "keep the problem on eBay" through those reimbursements so that consumers won't truly hold them to account.

 

The more hands a package goes through the higher the chance it will get damaged, destroyed or lost and the higher chance some paperwork won't get properly done.

 

The GSP is hostile to simplicity for consumers despite how simple it seems it may make selling. Why? In combination with the above, the legal onus if anything goes wrong is always upon the importer, eBay, PBI and the sellers can walk away without a scratch from any GSP issue.

Message 2065 of 6,171
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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

 International online shopping/reshipping is only going to increase, and these are the formative years  that will set the precedents for what citizens of countries are going to accept being done by corporations and government on their behalf. We do need to make ourselves heard.This is not just one program on Ebay but something quite a bit bigger... how corporations in one country are legally permitted to act with regards to citizens of other countries. 

 

Some scrutiny is needed ...

 

I say bring it on!

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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

marmo:  

 

I simply pointed out that media attention could have side effects and those toying with these ideas should be careful what they wish for.

They might not care for the outcome.

 

YOU are the one who suggested that tax collection could be "earth-shatteringly" terrible.

 

Not Me!

 

 

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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program


@i*m-still-here wrote:

marmo:  

(snip)

YOU are the one who suggested that tax collection could be "earth-shatteringly" terrible.

(snip)


And I would like to outline briefly in conjunction with my prior post that neither eBay nor PBI at any point collects tax or duty, but rather an "import charge".

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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program


@kxeron wrote:

@i*m-still-here wrote:

marmo:  

(snip)

YOU are the one who suggested that tax collection could be "earth-shatteringly" terrible.

(snip)


And I would like to outline briefly in conjunction with my prior post that neither eBay nor PBI at any point collects tax or duty, but rather an "import charge".


Thats like saying the Government of Canada Dont collect Tax, they collect HST.., your just playing with words.

Message 2069 of 6,171
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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

I can no longer recall who it was, but someone posted that the GSP will go down in the history books about how NOT to do a Global shipping program.

 

The GSP won't last.  It's too flawed. What's amazing is that after almost 2 years it's no better than it ever was.

Either it's not possible to do a good program of this type when dealing with thousands and thousands of individual sellers or P-B can't do it.

 

However, if a good solid program were somehow put into place, and if all Americans subscribed to it the way ebay seems to prefer, then what would that mean for Canadian buyers and sellers?

 

All other ebay sellers would still ship the normal way and US buyers could still buy without pre-paying taxes.

 

I'm not sure what the outcome would be, but it's food for thought.

 

Message 2070 of 6,171
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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program


@rick31797 wrote:

@marnotom! wrote:

@i*m-still-here wrote:

 

The more you bring that to the attention of the media, the more likely there will be a push to collect on all items over $20.

 

That won't make the GSP any more or less abrasive because actual GSP shipping costs will still be too high, but it could mean that buying from outside of Canada will become more expensive as they could just opt to tax all items over $20.

 


OK.  So what's so earth-shatteringly terrible about paying taxes due on a postal import that would be payable on a similar item purchased within Canada?


when it comes to living in Canada and paying taxes we don't get many breaks, so no, i don't feel guilty, buying an item for 50.00 from the USA and not paying any tax, maybe you do.


I don't see anyone pointing out that we should feel guilty. But I think that marno's point is that the media is not going to report that ebay has set up a system to charge tax for international items when we would pay tax here for the same item. In other words, it isn't illegal so why would the media 'jump on it' Obviously the system is not set up as well as it could be but it is not illegal.

Message 2071 of 6,171
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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program


@i*m-still-here wrote:

I can no longer recall who it was, but someone posted that the GSP will go down in the history books about how NOT to do a Global shipping program.

 

The GSP won't last.  It's too flawed. What's amazing is that after almost 2 years it's no better than it ever was.

Either it's not possible to do a good program of this type when dealing with thousands and thousands of individual sellers or P-B can't do it.

 

However, if a good solid program were somehow put into place, and if all Americans subscribed to it the way ebay seems to prefer, then what would that mean for Canadian buyers and sellers?

 

All other ebay sellers would still ship the normal way and US buyers could still buy without pre-paying taxes.

 

I'm not sure what the outcome would be, but it's food for thought.

 


Yes the GSP is flawed but the actually prepaying of taxes is done by many many U.S. companies and the premise is not going to go away.

 

You said..Either it's not possible to do a good program of this type when dealing with thousands and thousands of individual sellers or P-B can't do it.

 

I think that regardless of how 'good' the program was, Canadian buyers would still not like it. I'm sure that most here would much rather take their chances of having or not having to pay taxes when the package is delivered rather having to prepay taxes. That is totally understandable and ultimately, I would prefer no gsp program at all. However, I really don't see that happening. I think that more and more businesses will start having similar programs..

Message 2072 of 6,171
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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program


@pjcdn2005 wrote:

@rick31797 wrote:

@marnotom! wrote:

@i*m-still-here wrote:

 

The more you bring that to the attention of the media, the more likely there will be a push to collect on all items over $20.

 

That won't make the GSP any more or less abrasive because actual GSP shipping costs will still be too high, but it could mean that buying from outside of Canada will become more expensive as they could just opt to tax all items over $20.

 


OK.  So what's so earth-shatteringly terrible about paying taxes due on a postal import that would be payable on a similar item purchased within Canada?


when it comes to living in Canada and paying taxes we don't get many breaks, so no, i don't feel guilty, buying an item for 50.00 from the USA and not paying any tax, maybe you do.


I don't see anyone pointing out that we should feel guilty. But I think that marno's point is that the media is not going to report that ebay has set up a system to charge tax for international items when we would pay tax here for the same item. In other words, it isn't illegal so why would the media 'jump on it' Obviously the system is not set up as well as it could be but it is not illegal.


it doesn't have to be illegal for the media to do a report on it. it just has to be an interesting story... it was market place or W-5 that did a story on the Q-ray.. nothing illegal about what the founder was doing, he was not forcing anybody to buy his product, but it was interesting what the program found out when they tested the product...

Thats all you need is a story that people would be interested in seeing, and they may dig up a few things, we could never find out.

Message 2073 of 6,171
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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

I am Canadian and have been on ebay since 1998 and because of the rediculous increased shipping fees (anywhere from $10 - $30 for a single DVD) and the border fees, I no longer find ebay a viable source for products anymore. They have priced themselves out of reality and I now go to other sources many of who give free shipping. I enjoyed ebay in the past but now has gone down the toilet in my opinion so I agree with yiou 100%

Message 2074 of 6,171
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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

If a show like W-5 opted to do a program on the GSP, the point that would stick with everyone is that Canadians are not paying taxes on items over $20 even though we are legally obligated to do so.

 

That would certainly come out in a show like that and is that really what you want to bring to everyone's attention?

 

If enough viewers became upset with that, there might be a push to remedy that "problem."

 

In fact, most Canadians really don't care about the GSP as most don't buy items from the States via ebay and if they do it's an item here and there.

 

However, they might care very much that Canadians are not paying taxes on items over $20 even though the law states that they should be.

 

 

 

Also, while it's true that many companies have systems with pre-paid taxes, it might not be possible to do that well with a venue such as ebay where items are varied and there are thousands of sellers.

Not just that, but it also makes very little sense to have that system in place for American sellers only.

Look at the result so far

Not So Good!

 

Message 2075 of 6,171
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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program


@pjcdn2005 wrote:

I think that regardless of how 'good' the program was, Canadian buyers would still not like it. I'm sure that most here would much rather take their chances of having or not having to pay taxes when the package is delivered rather having to prepay taxes. That is totally understandable and ultimately, I would prefer no gsp program at all. However, I really don't see that happening. I think that more and more businesses will start having similar programs.


I'm sure you're right that nothing would make Canadian buyers like this program. And I'm sure you're also right that they prefer taking their chances that their purchases will go through untaxed (I know I do!) But I think there is more than just the tax issue contributing to the dislike of the program. For starters, there's the double shipping charge (from the seller to Kentucky and from Kentucky to the buyer). There's the tracking number that doesn't seem to do much, if any, tracking. There's the fact that any overpayment by the buyer remains the property of PB rather than being refunded to the buyer. And there's the fact that almost two years into the program, PB still refuses to provide itemized statements to the buyers.

 

Yes, other etailers have similar programs. But their programs don't have a double shipping charge. And I'm assuming that they refund overcharges and also provide itemized statements. And that their tracking actually works. I wonder why eBay and PB aren't fixing what can be fixed instead of forever giving us the "we're looking into it" line.

Message 2076 of 6,171
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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

Exactly.

 

At heart here is what what companies can do and  what is going to be considered to be "ok" in future.

 

Is it "ok" that a company doesn't give a break down of duty and taxes. nor does it provide a refund in the case of erroneous duties paid on non-dutiable items?

 

Is it "ok"that sellers are allowed to continue to list items where scant info results in incorrect charges,never spelled out and not subject to scrutiny?

 

Is it "ok" that we have asked repeatedly for a breakdown of HST/GST/PST and any applicable duty to be provided up front,  and still wait, more than a year after this was first requested? 

 

Is this the acceptable "face" of online commerce? Is this a precedent we are all willing to live with? 

 

This is what I want to see scrutinized.

 

 

Message 2077 of 6,171
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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

I forgot one of the issues Canadian (and presumably other non-US) buyers have with the GSP: no combined shipping!

 

Let's say I want to buy five $2.99 postcards (or other similar small light-weight items) from a single GSP seller. And let's say the GSP shipping charge to Canada is $15, which is pretty much what I've seen on small light-weight items. A non-GSP seller would have put all five cards into a single package. With GSP, each $2.99 purchase turns into a $17.99 purchase = a grand total of $89.95! Ridiculous! Insane! Who in their right mind would go for this? Let a member of the GSP team come here and tell me either that this makes perfect sense or else that they're going to fix it in a user-friendly manner.  I say user-friendly because most of the "fixes" that have been made to GSP so far seem to be just about as obvious to the users as a black cat on a moonless night during a power outage.

Message 2078 of 6,171
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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

I agree- as a long time ebay buyer in Canada- I completely avoid any US seller using Global. Even if it was the only item I ever wanted on this earth-I will not bid, ask fo special shipping -nothing-they lose my purchase. This has been a matter of principle to me- ever since I first posted on this months ago - Global Services is hurting US sellers. Since it has been allowed to exist for so long now I can only assume US sellers enrolled don't care if they lose our purchases. So be it.
Message 2079 of 6,171
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Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

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Arlene_V wrote:

Is it "ok" that a company doesn't give a break down of duty and taxes. nor does it provide a refund in the case of erroneous duties paid on non-dutiable items?

Is it "ok" that sellers are allowed to continue to list items where scant info results in incorrect charges, never spelled out and not subject to scrutiny?

Is it "ok" that we have asked repeatedly for a breakdown of HST/GST/PST and any applicable duty to be provided up front,  and still wait, more than a year after this was first requested? 

Is this the acceptable "face" of online commerce? Is this a precedent we are all willing to live with? 

This is what I want to see scrutinized.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I remember back around 2008 or 09 I think when the Harper government said in the news that they had directed CBSA not to really push the taxes on items less than $100 declared value to save Canadian consumers money and cut down on the backlog of items waiting for assessment. All I know for sure is that 1 day I was having to pay GST/PST/Canada Post fees on items coming from the US and then I didn't and it was great.  Any investigation would clearly show that while two government agencies are still following that directive from the government, eBay and PBI have decided to not only ignore that but keep any and all overcharges with no clear breakdown of fees and taxes. Yes Canadian hate to pay taxes but we also hate international companies who collect a tax that our own government stopped doing with no breakdown of cost.

This has nothing to do with me paying taxes on assessed items, I had an item I bought from an e-commerce vender recently that was assessed $13.50 in sales taxes by the CBSA for collectable cards from the US but no Canada Post fee and I had no problem with it, I paid it and was still further ahead than if I had have bought it thru eBay using the GSP.

I have made other numerous of purchases on other e-commerce sites such as Amazon without any issues what so ever and I knew what I was paying and where and if I had over paid I was refunded the extra money within a day or so of getting it home without having to ask. So if these professional e-commerce sties can do it properly why can't eBay, they want to be a big fish as a professional e-commerce company with easy shipping worldwide but they don't want any of the responsibility, liability or transparency that comes with it as shown the way they have written their GSP T&C.  

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