Comments about the Global Shipping Program

[kalvin@ebay.com]

Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here. 

A few questions to get the ball rolling:

• What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
• Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
• What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
• How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Please try & keep the comments constructive 🙂

If you have any questions about the program, please post them here.

[pjcdn2005]

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@walker0017 wrote:

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I think I understand what ragsn_old_iron is getting at, if a buyer selects a more expensive shipping method that involves say tracking and a signature required and the GSP is involved on top of that and the seller ships the item out with those conditions then eBay/PBI logically should  be legally obligated to get it to you under the same conditions since you paid for that. To substitute a cheaper method of delivery or calling it a freight forwarding service without the conditions that you as the buyer paid for it could be argued that eBay/PBI are defrauding you of the difference in shipping costs.

Lets not forget the shipping costs showing before the GSP cost is calculated from the sellers location to the buyers location even though the buyer only sends it to Kentucky for processing. Unfortunately because of the wording of the GSP T&C eBay/PBI in their narrow view think they can "legally " defraud buyers of this higher premium in the US, but I am willing to bet that it would not stand up in any court here in Canada under the consumer protection act. This is why all the real professional e-commerce sites like Amazon will ship the item exactly as you paid for with no funny word games.

I know it sounds like I am accusing them of fraud but really all I am doing is stating the obvious.

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On GSP listings, there is no shipping option other than the one that the GSP provides so the buyer can not select a more expensive one. If they want a more expensive option with a signature, the seller will have to agree to send the item outside of the gsp program.

Also, a seller with a gsp listing can not list any international shipping prices at all as that is all done by the GSP.If the seller charges for shipping within the U.S. then the gsp buyer will pay the domestic rate to Kentucky.

[pjcdn2005]

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@kxeron wrote:

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@marnotom! wrote:

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@walker0017 wrote:

I think I understand what ragsn_old_iron is getting at, if a buyer selects a more expensive shipping method that involves say tracking and a signature required and the GSP is involved on top of that and the seller ships the item out with those conditions then eBay/PBI logically should  be legally obligated to get it to you under the same conditions since you paid for that. To substitute a cheaper method of delivery or calling it a freight forwarding service without the conditions that you as the buyer paid for it could be argued that eBay/PBI are defrauding you of the difference in shipping costs.

Lets not forget the shipping costs showing before the GSP cost is calculated from the sellers location to the buyers location even though the buyer only sends it to Kentucky for processing. Unfortunately because of the wording of the GSP T&C eBay/PBI in their narrow view think they can "legally " defraud buyers of this higher premium in the US, but I am willing to bet that it would not stand up in any court here in Canada under the consumer protection act. This is why all the real professional e-commerce sites like Amazon will ship the item exactly as you paid for with no funny word games.

I know it sounds like I am accusing them of fraud but really all I am doing is stating the obvious.

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I don't see anything in the Global Shipping Program terms and conditions for buyers that states or implies that the buyer is getting any sort of premium service.  (I don't see any mention of signature confirmation, either.)

International shipping and tracking service. Pitney Bowes will arrange for the international shipment of your order from the U.S. Shipping Center by a third party shipping carrier (or carriers) to the delivery address designated by you. You and your Seller will be able to track the international shipment of your order from the United States to the designated delivery address within My eBay.

The tracking information hasn't been shown to be 100% reliable, of course, but then, neither is the eDELCON service for USPS's First Class International.  Apart from that, I really can't wrap my head around the rest of ragsn's or your concerns.  What have you seen in the T&C that I've missed?

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To summarize and simplify:

If the seller and buyer agree to say have the package overnighted, it will be overnighted to the Kentucky shipping centre indeed, but then through those very terms you highlighted, they can "arrange" their own shipping procedures, including using bulk freight (waiting until they have a full palett), which can slow down the overnighted delivery to upwards of a week or two. Thus contract notwithstanding eBay can be seen as committing shipping fraud (through false advertising) in offering alternate shipping methods on its website, but unable to make its contractors (PBI et al) adhere to those advertised methods.

If the GSP cannot successfully overnight a package when it is agreed upon, the eBay website should not allow alternate shipping methods to be used to speed up, or cheapen the delivery on GSP items and should only allow shipping to Kentucky as fast as they themselves can ensure a package is shipped from there.

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I'm confused by your post.The buyer has no idea what shipping method the seller is going to use to ship to Kentucky and the gsp program doesn't promise that any particular service will be used from there so there really are no 'advertised methods'.I don't even know if it would be possible for a seller to agree to upgrade the method to Kentucky as they don't seem to have any control over the invoice sent to a gsp buyer. Plus, it would be plain dumb for the seller to agree to overnight something to Kentucky when they are aware that they have no control over any other part of the trip. (yes...I realize that some of the gsp sellers have no clue how it works)

[bennett4612]

Hi pjcdn2005.

With the GSP the seller ships to the US Shipping Center using any method he/she chooses. Basically the domestic portion is the same as a non-GSP transaction -- seller can list "free shipping", etc., in the listing. 

You are correct regarding international shipping. Pitney Bowes takes care of this part, as captioned in the Terms & Conditions (and as quoted earlier in this thread). 

Hope this helps. 

---Bennett

[afantiques]

If the GSP cannot successfully overnight a package when it is agreed upon, the eBay website should not allow alternate shipping methods to be used to speed up, or cheapen the delivery on GSP items and should only allow shipping to Kentucky as fast as they themselves can ensure a package is shipped from there.

Shipping from the seller to the distribution center and onward shipping are entirely separate things, and the onward shipping is outside the control of the seller. In the same way the choice of the seller in the way of shipping is outside the control of the GSP re-shippers.

If (unlikely) the buyer reads the terms and conditions they are accepting by purchasing, this is made about as clear as any complicated document like this can make them.

This seems to be a convoluted but essentially irrelevant red herring. There are plenty of real defects to complain about.

[pjcdn2005]

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@bennett4612 wrote:

Hi pjcdn2005.

With the GSP the seller ships to the US Shipping Center using any method he/she chooses. Basically the domestic portion is the same as a non-GSP transaction -- seller can list "free shipping", etc., in the listing. 

You are correct regarding international shipping. Pitney Bowes takes care of this part, as captioned in the Terms & Conditions (and as quoted earlier in this thread). 

Hope this helps. 

---Bennett

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I realize that when they list they can use any type of shipping that they want to for the domestic portion.  But someone suggested that the buyer might want to negotiate a different price and shipping method for the domestic portion and I questioned whether or not that would or could be done as the buyer does not 'see' the cost or the type of domestic service being used and because the seller can not change a gsp invoice. However, I don't need to know the answer about that as I tend to agree with afantiques that the topic is more of a red herring.

[i*m-still-here]

This is for those who believe the GSP is meant for upper end items.

For the past hour I've been emailing with a  top notch seller who has been here for years.

She's been on the phone with eBay for about half that time.

She's listed a group of high end pieces and they're selling for peanuts.

She didn't know why until I told her that some are listed via the GSP.  The ones listed without the GSP are blocked to international buyers. 

I guess when the GSP sneaks into some listings then the rest are blocked to international sales if the GSP misses them.

The more expensive the item, the more the GSP is a hindrance to sales because no one is going to bid when they see they have to pay and extra $100+ to get the piece that they didn't have to pay prior to the GSP.

Those pieces are priced out of the collector's market when the GSP is used for shipping.

Sure, a few items are taxed when they enter the country but our government (and I'm guessing others as well) opts to allow the majority to pass and experienced buyers know that and would rather take their chances.

[marnotom!]

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@i*m-still-here wrote:

This is for those who believe the GSP is meant for upper end items.

For the past hour I've been emailing with a  top notch seller who has been here for years.

She's been on the phone with eBay for about half that time.

She's listed a group of high end pieces and they're selling for peanuts.

She didn't know why until I told her that some are listed via the GSP.  The ones listed without the GSP are blocked to international buyers. 

I guess when the GSP sneaks into some listings then the rest are blocked to international sales if the GSP misses them.

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I'm not sure what you mean by your point about the listings without GSP are blocked to international buyers.  It sounds to me as though those listings were made without international shipping selected as an option when the seller created her listings and the seller set her buyer blocks to block bids from users with non-US shipping addresses.

It's hard to make any sort of call on this without seeing the seller's listings, but it sounds to me as though this seller's listings would not have had international shipping offered if there were no GSP.  My understanding of the GSP is that it doesn't disable international shipping by other means for non-GSP listings.

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@i*m-still-here wrote:

The more expensive the item, the more the GSP is a hindrance to sales because no one is going to bid when they see they have to pay and extra $100+ to get the piece that they didn't have to pay prior to the GSP.

Those pieces are priced out of the collector's market when the GSP is used for shipping.

Sure, a few items are taxed when they enter the country but our government (and I'm guessing others as well) opts to allow the majority to pass and experienced buyers know that and would rather take their chances.

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From your understanding of how taxes and duty are applied to a personal import to Canada, i*m, would you say that the charges levied on the item at least appear to be in line with what should be charged on them?  You can check this website to help with the calculation if need be:

http://www.dutycalculator.com/

Don't forget that in order for a GSP listing to have even a chance at having taxes and duty amounts applied correctly to the import charges, the seller has to provide accurate information on the item's country of origin in the "Item Specifics" section of the listing and categorize the item appropriately.  For the shipping amount to be accurate, the seller has to provide an accurate shipping weight.  

If the seller was not anticipating international sales for her items, she may not have provided any of this information for the listings.

[pocomocomputing]

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@marnotom! wrote:

Don't forget that in order for a GSP listing to have even a chance at having taxes and duty amounts applied correctly to the import charges, the seller has to provide accurate information on the item's country of origin in the "Item Specifics" section of the listing and categorize the item appropriately. For the shipping amount to be accurate, the seller has to provide an accurate shipping weight. 

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I would think the seller would also have to provide dimensions also and not just weight.  Once the item gets into Canada and uses a courier to ship with, dimensional weight might apply. Speculation on my part but for larger items this would be important. The seller should give as much information as possible in the eBay listing SYI form to hopefully minimize issues with the displayed import charges.

[i*m-still-here]

I don't know about other other sellers, but for this seller when the GSP sneaked into her listings, then other items without the GSP were blocked to International bids.

She is very eager for international sales and has always welcomed us and did not intentionally add the GSP and has a strong dislike for the program.  (Now, more so than ever.)

She has been selling here forever and yet the GSP got into her listings in spite of being unwanted.  Now it's too late because she's lost hundreds of dollars because of it.

The finer points being raised here about GSP charges are of no concern to the average buyer, but I understand the desperation behind them.

Out of anger and frustration posters are now picking at the the GSP from every angle possible hoping to chip away at it.

Yet it continues unabated and stronger than ever.

My point is that there are posts to this board suggesting that the GSP "works" for items over $50, but as a buyer of items over $50 I can tell you without a doubt that tis does not "work" for sellers or buyers of collectables of more expensive items.  The GSP prices those items out of the market.

[missymcpett]

I agree with all the comments below.

Sellers seem to sign up to GSP without actually reading what GPS is intended for.

What I usually do is ask the seller if this type of shipping is what they intended and send them the link to the GPS description page, before I will bid on an item.  Seems once the item is sold the invoice can't be changed or at least that's the situation a seller and I got into.

We got around it but it was a real pain. 

[kxeron]

I'm starting to wonder if the GSP should only be available for retail boxed items that have a set dimensions (of the retail box), have a set weight (of the retail box with the product inside), so on and so forth.

From what it's beginning to seriously sound from all of the conflict in this thread about how to calculate duty, how to calculate tax, damaged items, misclassifications, etc, the GSP is not for anything not available at a big box retail store like WalMart, Best Buy, Sears, so on and so forth.

This potentially excludes:

• New/Used OEM components that often are not packed in a retail printed box that may get damaged upon repacking
• Used items that lack retail boxes (including antiques and many collectibles which often do not have boxes at all and electronics that need to be packed a specific way as to avoid damage)
• New items sold at specialty stores like musical instruments or automotive parts.
• Bulk items as the GSP cannot classify these items correctly

This all makes sense since the programme is seemingly trying to emulate (and failing) various retail processes to make for a "worry free" purchase. Consider:

• PBI's policy states that they will not repack a retail box WHILE they will repack/handle an item held in a brown cardboard box at their discretion.
• Duty is easier to calculate on a retail item (box dimensions and weight of the retail package, no awkward shapes and definitive standing without needing to involve a customs agent)
• PBI's model is seriously sounding like they're trying to emulate big box retail distribution centres.
• Most of PBI's employees are not trained on how to handle items not found at big box retail stores.
• PBI uses freight to bulk ship items across the border in bonded trucks.
• PBI has a history of seizing items from specialty stores or custom built because they can't fit within their bulk freight shipping processes for the cost bracket they originally charged for.
• Retail items that people purchase are often above that $50 figure often quoted.
• Retail items are easier to replace if PBI damages/misplaces/seizes them.

So at the end of the day, I think anything that isn't found at a big box retail store AND with original retail packaging should be disallowed from using the programme automatically by force, not merely suggested by some FAQ but there should be qualifying questions in the listing form to sellers that omissions should automatically disqualify it and to fall back to direct shipping methods upon these omissions. Such questions would be box dimensions within the half-inch, box weight with item inside (if someone is selling through the GSP, they should be prepared with an item scale as they're essentially selling under a retail distribution model where weight counts from step one.)

This isn't only upon the seller, but eBay/PBI as well to ensure that these questions are required and that the item actually qualifies before accepting it under the programme and to ensure that it is clear that only retail-available items are acceptable instead of making a list of exclusions of what not to send through the programme that could go on for longer than the T&C documents.

Note: When I say "PBI" this includes any of their contractors operating as agents of theirs, including shipping companies.

[kristencaylor]

Totally ripping off Canadian buyers! Bought an item for 39.99. Paid 80.00 total! Sellers don't get it, buyers are being ripped off. Import fees, taxes etc should be left to the customs agent. If we owe it then we can pay it at the post office when we pick it up. Makes Ebay too expensive to justify. Shame on Ebay for forcing everyone into this blind. I love the "no refund if the amount of taxes or import fees is less" so that means "we are making a high estimate and keeping the change" ROBBERY!!! Guess less of my money will be going to the American economy. Good job ebay. Feedback: NEGATIVE

[afantiques]

Bought an item for 39.99. Paid 80.00 total

Why? The time to start this boycott was just before you paid for the item.

Just save your money for sellers who ship direct.

[i*m-still-here]

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@kxeron wrote:

So at the end of the day, I think anything that isn't found at a big box retail store AND with original retail packaging should be disallowed from using the programme automatically by force, 

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That is exactly right.  The program was likely created for this type of seller but it went haywire and there is no end in sight.

For the rest:  If buyers want to buy from the States and the seller won't ship internationally there are numerous businesses which handle exactly that type of shipment.

[xen999]

I made the same point in the official GSP thread that ebay shouldn't calculate taxes and really should just leave it to the customs to decide what to do, and this is especially true for small amount items since more often than not they don't bother charging us so we can actually save a tiny bit there. Instead we are been bled dry as per usual...

However... Why did you still purchase the item knowing what the charges would be or without inquiring beforehand. Just do what I do and avoid sellers using GSP like the pest or at least communicate with said sellers if they might be willing to opt out of the program for your convenience.

[pjcdn2005]

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@i*m-still-here wrote:

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@kxeron wrote:

So at the end of the day, I think anything that isn't found at a big box retail store AND with original retail packaging should be disallowed from using the programme automatically by force, 

---

That is exactly right.  The program was likely created for this type of seller but it went haywire and there is no end in sight.

For the rest:  If buyers want to buy from the States and the seller won't ship internationally there are numerous businesses which handle exactly that type of shipment.

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So it would ok for people like yourself who buy previously owned collectibles not to have to use the gsp on ebay but others should still have to use it if they want to shop here?

[walker0017]

Here is an excellent example of why no one with an ounce of common sense would buy from any seller in the USA using the GSP and why it was implemented primarily as a money generator for eBay/PBI.

I collect various Star Trek items and on a hunch came across on eBay two listed in the US, 1 with GSP, 1 without and as a control item 1 on Amazon. All amounts are in Cdn.

The one with GSP eBay item #371014764792 lists for $49.80, $25.13 Shipping, and $5.99 approx. GSP for a total of $80.92 and if I want 2 then double the price to $161.84 as combined shipping is not an option. 

The item without the GSP eBay item #351012064343 lists for $44.22, $20.53 for a total of $64.75 and if I want 2  the seller combines shipping for approx. $10.50 for a grand total of $119.47.  This seller ships worldwide as well as the GSP one.

Now the Amazon item which lists for $47.65 with free shipping and Amazon Prime(I pay for Amazon Prime yearly though) and if I want 2 then $95.30 + $6.67 PST for $101.97.

Even comparing just the eBay items the GSP would have me out of pocket $42.37, even if on the non-GSP item I was hit with PST/GST/Canada Post fees I would still be further ahead by about $22.00 ($10.61 Tax +9.00 Canada Post).

From any sensible buyers point of view the GSP is a money loser, I could be using that additional $22 to $42 for other things, from a sellers point of view it is a money loser because a sale they might have made didn't happen and they would know why if they could see the added costs. I think if all sellers could see the final costs of their GSP items and compare them to their non-GSP competitors they would probably be dropping the GSP faster than a politician breaks an election promise.

 The only winners with the GSP as it is are eBay/PBI because they get to make $32 on the sale for really doing nothing except reroute packages and supposedly and more importantly Amazon because they were the most inexpensive of all and seem to be more organized about this than eBay.

[i*m-still-here]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

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@i*m-still-here wrote:

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@kxeron wrote:

So at the end of the day, I think anything that isn't found at a big box retail store AND with original retail packaging should be disallowed from using the programme automatically by force, 

---

That is exactly right.  The program was likely created for this type of seller but it went haywire and there is no end in sight.

For the rest:  If buyers want to buy from the States and the seller won't ship internationally there are numerous businesses which handle exactly that type of shipment.

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So it would ok for people like yourself who buy previously owned collectibles not to have to use the gsp on ebay but others should still have to use it if they want to shop here?

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No.  Of course not but I think that's a huge leap for what was said to that conclusion.

IMO the GSP should be trashed yesterday across the board.

However, if there ever was a point at all (and IMO there isn't), then it would have been for sellers with brand new items who refuse to ship out of the States otherwise in conjunction with buyers who don't want to use forwarding services available to them.

Simply................  Very Few educated buyers would use the GSP willing and by choice.

However, ........................... the GSP might appeal for items such as:

There are a few items which are simply not available here (yet) and a very few buyers who have to have the latest IT thing right now.

There are also some new items which lend themselves to price comparisons and buying from the Sates makes sense occasionally.

Who knows.  There are better ways to get that stuff but some buyers might not be aware of them.

[arlene_v]

I have a suggestion about the GSP, it has probably been raised here before, but I have not read each and every comment, so here goes, sorry if it's been discussed here ad nauseam. 

Buyers should be able to rate the Global Shpping Program's performance in much the same way they rate sellers.

The buyer should be offered a way of leaving feedback for the seller AND the Global Shipping Program. 

The buyer could be prompted with something like this when they leave feedback..

"This item was purchased using Ebay's Global Shipping Program. Please rate this program"

How satisfied were you with the speed of shipping under the Global Shipping Program?

How satisfied were you with the shipping charges under the Global Shipping Program? 

How satisfied were you with the tracking and info provided by the Global Shipping Program? 

Were the  program charges stated in a clear and unambiguous manner? 

Possibly, there could be  a comments section in the feedback that would enable buyers to communicate their concerns about the program.

Such data would be immensely useful to  eBay.

eBay prides itself on making sure that sellers maintain certain ratings  in order to continue selling here. 

May I  suggest that a program introduced by eBay and basically foist on buyers and sellers,  be held to these same standards? 

[arlene_v]

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@walker0017 wrote:

Here is an excellent example of why no one with an ounce of common sense would buy from any seller in the USA using the GSP and why it was implemented primarily as a money generator for eBay/PBI.

I collect various Star Trek items and on a hunch came across on eBay two listed in the US, 1 with GSP, 1 without and as a control item 1 on Amazon. All amounts are in Cdn.

The one with GSP eBay item #371014764792 lists for $49.80, $25.13 Shipping, and $5.99 approx. GSP for a total of $80.92 and if I want 2 then double the price to $161.84 as combined shipping is not an option. 

The item without the GSP eBay item #351012064343 lists for $44.22, $20.53 for a total of $64.75 and if I want 2  the seller combines shipping for approx. $10.50 for a grand total of $119.47.  This seller ships worldwide as well as the GSP one.

Now the Amazon item which lists for $47.65 with free shipping and Amazon Prime(I pay for Amazon Prime yearly though) and if I want 2 then $95.30 + $6.67 PST for $101.97.

Even comparing just the eBay items the GSP would have me out of pocket $42.37, even if on the non-GSP item I was hit with PST/GST/Canada Post fees I would still be further ahead by about $22.00 ($10.61 Tax +9.00 Canada Post).

From any sensible buyers point of view the GSP is a money loser, I could be using that additional $22 to $42 for other things, from a sellers point of view it is a money loser because a sale they might have made didn't happen and they would know why if they could see the added costs. I think if all sellers could see the final costs of their GSP items and compare them to their non-GSP competitors they would probably be dropping the GSP faster than a politician breaks an election promise.

 The only winners with the GSP as it is are eBay/PBI because they get to make $32 on the sale for really doing nothing except reroute packages and supposedly and more importantly Amazon because they were the most inexpensive of all and seem to be more organized about this than eBay.

 ________________________________________________________________________________

Well said. 

Exercise due diligence when shopping online, check out the total charges ...keep the brain functioning and the eyes open,  as you have just illustrated ... and avoid the GSP!

This way it dies.

I won't be sending condolences to PB/eBay either.