This is getting spupid

[rosscd57]

Every time I send an Expedited Package I am notified that I underpaid - every time.

What is bothering me is the amounts.  They are always under a buck. These are big packages in the $30 to $45 dollar range.

The amounts they claim I underpay are like these examples: .34 cents, .70 cents, .68 cents. This is nuts amount like that must be in the 1/4 of a centimeter range. The measurements of my packages are in the 35 to 50 centimeter range and are going to vary slightly no matter who measures them - my measurements are accurate. This is really bugging me - getting nickle and dimed by the Post Office.

Any one know who does the measuring - a machine or a person?

[triber]

Pierre: Are you saying that when I print and expedited label on Paypal that I should change the shipping rate that they give me? I thought that Paypal would be charging the correct amount.

[pjcdn2005]

I haven't run into a problem yet either but then I don't use expedited a lot and never use xpresspost.

Someone mentioned that it may be a volumetric problem.  That isn't the problem as the postage is figured out based on the dimensions entered and takes volume into account. If the dimensions are large enough to bump the postage cost to a different weight then the higher weight will show right on the label.  It doesn't have to be a big package either. For example, using the online min. savings calculator, a package from Alberta to California which is 20x20x5  400 grams will charge for a package under 500 grams $19.94 and will show the weight as 400 grams.  A package that is 20x20 x7cm  400 grams will be charged for a package that is 501 -750 grams $21.61.  The label itself will show the volumetric weight of 560 grams, not 400 grams.  

The problem seems to be is that the laser at the sorting center or wherever they measure it is getting different measurements than we are but I don't know why. I can see it happening more when using a bubble envelope to mail something as I find it hard to measure the depth but boxes are fairly easy to measure so it doesn't make sense why so many people have problems.

Zee...I'm not specifically posting this to you.. just explaining how the labels work iwth  volumetric measurement.

[pjcdn2005]

Someone else also mentioned that we probably don't get anything back if we overpay and I suspect that's right. But I'm surprised that they are going that route as they were sued for something similar in 2007. Actually they said then that they were going to stop volumetric measurements within 2 years but I think that in the meantime, companies started charging the same way too so perhaps that's why CP kept it up.

http://business.financialpost.com/legal-post/canada-post-lee-valley

[ricarmic]

Note that the formula changed on the 15th for Canadian expedited, it is now
LxWxH / 5,000

So 15cm x 25cm x 18cm /5000 = 1.35 = 1.5 KG volumetric weight.

(Canadian expedited used to be /6000 and expresspost /5000 this year they made everything /5000 which makes the volumetric weight higher now for expedited items)

[pjcdn2005]

That will make a big difference in some cases!

[pierrelebel]

"Are you saying that when I print and expedited label on Paypal that I should change the shipping rate that they give me?"

No.

If you are GST/HST registered you must remit either GST or HST for taxable sales based on the province of the buyer.  It does not matter if you were charged GST (5%) or HST (13%-15%) on your actual postage costs.  You get that tax (whatever it is) refunded through ITC.

What you charge the buyer on taxable sales is based on the province of residence of the buyer. 

What Canada Post (or PayPal) charges you is based on many factors, none of which affect the rate charged to the buyer.

For example, you are located in Ontario and purchase postage stamps for your mail.  You pay 13% HST at time of purchase. If you ship a taxable item to Alberta, you can only charge 5% GST to the buyer on the shipping charge since the buyer is located in AB.

When filing your GST/HST report, you remit the 5% charged to the buyer and get an ITC for the 13% paid on your postage costs.

[ypdc_dennis]

---

@ricarmic wrote:
Note that the formula changed on the 15th for Canadian expedited, it is now
LxWxH / 5,000

So 15cm x 25cm x 18cm /5000 = 1.35 = 1.5 KG volumetric weight.

(Canadian expedited used to be /6000 and expresspost /5000 this year they made everything /5000 which makes the volumetric weight higher now for expedited items)

---

Regular Parcel in Canada for 2018 is unchanged with a metric divisor of 6000 -- so for some box sizes Regular may cost less than Expedited.

[cumos55]

I do what I do and it works for me...

I know the difference between Regular parcel versus Expedite  for GST versus HST...

It used to be... about one year ago... that for Expedite  the website gave the same final cost for postage as that  charged at a postal outlet.  I knew that the business discount about one year ago was close to 10 % both on the website and at a postal outlet.

Then came the adjustment  to a 5 % discount...no more, no less....at the postal outlet.  The website percentage did not change...

For Expedite Canada  the difference between the website and the postal outlet is about 50 to 70 cents, with the cost at the postal outlet always being higher.

Canada Post has been adjusting things.....

I pay attention to what has happened  because these numbers are the values I use to help me identify the cost for postage in Canada.

[cumos55]

Fuel Surcharge (FS) is a whole new reality.

A year ago.... FS for Expedite Canada was 3.0 %.....  

Then Canada Post changed the way FS was determined....  and value went up to 7.5 %.

Today FS is 10.5 % for Expedite Canada.

The base cost, no FS added, has changed little over the last two years......Canada Post must justify a change in the base cost..... most likely a government level of input..

However, FS is Canada Post's choice without any government regulation or input.

[pjcdn2005]

I'm not objecting to how you do things. I'm only commenting on the fact that you say the online calculator is wrong. It's wrong for you but that's because you are not using online shipping and they are showing the online discount.  If you have a tier one small business discount and used snapship or PP to print a label, you should pay the same as the minimum online discount calculator showed you. 

At one time I don't think that there was a difference between online and counter rates when you had a venture one card and you used CP to print a label but that changed a while ago.

[jt-libra]

---

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Someone mentioned that it may be a volumetric problem.  That isn't the problem as the postage is figured out based on the dimensions entered and takes volume into account.

The reason I brought this up again is because @rosscd57 said that he had purchased the label through PayPal and they still show the following statement at the top of the label creation page:

P"lease ensure that you enter the correct weight and dimensions while purchasing shipping labels to avoid underpaid postage dues to Canada Post later.  Canada Post volumetric weight calculation guide "

 Every time I see that statement, it makes me think that, unlike Shippo or Snap Ship who automatically show you the equivalent volumetric measure, PayPal expects us to ensure that we are entering volumetric measurement.

I know this matter has been discussed at length, but I just wanted to throw it out there as a "possible" reason for the additional charges.

---

[cumos55]

When a calculation of postage is done on Canada Post's website... the fist result is what non-business people see.

In order to get the business value..... 

we click on....  Show Minimum on-line Savings.....

For Business Solutions....  the minimum is 5 %... and nothing higher

The wording is minimum.........and that is 5 %... and that is what is indicated for Business Solutions on the Canada Post website.

When Canada Post adjusted prices  to a 5 % discount at a postal outlet... they should have done the same on the website... but did not do so....  but should have done so.

This may not be a problem to anyone that uses Business solutions.....  and get discounts higher than 5 %.

But what about someone new  ... a new seller on eBay as an example.....who want values for Expedite Canada.....  and then finds out the value on the website is different than that charged at a postal outlet.

That new seller has a problem.......  The cost determined  for Expedite on the website MUST be the same as that charged at a postal outlet.... This new seller will then have no problem.....

[rose-dee]

---

@zee-chan wrote:
In terms of measurements, I tend to enter a couple cm longer and a heavier weight when I print my label, so I haven't experienced above problem yet. Usually when I do mail expedited parcel my buyer is buying a lot, so I can afford paying an extra buck or two into shipping to make sure it delivers.

---

I often do the same thing when sending an item Expedited, but isn't it absurd (and possibly illegal) that we should feel we have to pay more in order to avoid being charged for underpayment based on a measurement or weight determination by CPC that may or may not be correct, and against which we (their customers!) have no recourse?  Something about price gouging and manipulation is ringing in my ears over this.  Wasn't CPC sued in the past for comparable chicanery?  

[momcqueen]

This has never happened to me but then again I stopped using Paypal Shipping in favour of Shippo as soon as Shippo became available.

Notwithstanding that, I have a few thoughts:

Cardboard boxes are not symmetrical. Are you making absolutely certain to take your measure at the tallest, widest and deepest points of your shipping container? On my professionally-sourced, barnd-new-never-before-used boxes, the difference can be one to two cm between longest measure and shortest measure on the same side. 

And are your measurements in centimetres as opposed to inches? And grams instead of pounds?

[jockeydeuce]

There's definitely something broken in the Paypal/Canada Post/Pitney Bowes system. In the last two months, over 50% of the Expedited packages to the US and Canada that I've shipped have been hit with the underpaid postage. I'm meticulous about my measurements and my scale is accurate with my local post office scale.....After the first time this happened in December, I started keying in larger measurements than actual by 2-3cm. Still they are coming back as underpaid.....This has never happened to me before in a decade!

All you can do is key in the info and Paypal/Pitney Bowes makes the calculations for shipping.....My only thought is that as others have mentioned, Volumetric weight calculations have changed and Paypal and Pitney Bowes haven't made the updates within their system. I'm 100% confident in the weights and dimensions I'm entering, so it's the only thing that makes sense.

Another thing of note is that around 80-90% of my shipments go small packet of which none have been hit for insufficient postage paid. It's getting very frustrating and I'm concerned there's possibly a magic number of these "underpaid" packages where they revoke your online shipping privileges....That would suck considering I know none of these are any fault of mine.

[hlmacdon]

---

@jockeydeuce wrote:

There's definitely something broken in the Paypal/Canada Post/Pitney Bowes system. In the last two months, over 50% of the Expedited packages to the US and Canada that I've shipped have been hit with the underpaid postage. I'm meticulous about my measurements and my scale is accurate with my local post office scale.....After the first time this happened in December, I started keying in larger measurements than actual by 2-3cm. Still they are coming back as underpaid.....This has never happened to me before in a decade!

---

It seems that way. I also use calibrated scales as well as consistently sized factory fresh boxes and yet get hit for small underpaid amounts typically 50 cents or less. I don't mail as much with Canada Post, but this happens with the majority of expedited parcels I ship. 

[cumos55]

For those that use online shipping.

First ----- When the cost of an Expedite parcel is calculated, the Canada Post website on the internet is accessed... this is the cost paid 

Second -----Then when the actual cost is determined.....  the program for cost of Expedite parcels  available at postal outlets is used.

--------------------------------------

Could it be that two different programs are used...

The first to determine the cost paid by a seller.... using Canada Post's website

The second to determine the actual cost the seller must pay... This is the cost charged at a postal outlet

[momcqueen]

Has your Tier savings level with Canada Post changed? Those are evaluated periodically based on the previous quarter. That might amount to the underpaid dollar figures you're seeing on each transaction. 

[momcqueen]

That would also explain the reason your Small Packets are not being identified as underpaid. Shippers get no discount on those, regardless of the user's Tier discount with Canada Post. 

[ypdc_dennis]

---

@momcqueen wrote:

That would also explain the reason your Small Packets are not being identified as underpaid. Shippers get no discount on those, regardless of the user's Tier discount with Canada Post. 

---

Actually, Small Packet does get discounts for different Solutions for Small Business levels.

What Small Packet does not have is a fuel surcharge and it does not have dimensional weight adjustments.