Seller promised Prority but used Media Mail via GSM to Canada-no movement. Advice?

[americannostalgia]

background:

I bought a book/audio(cassette) out of print language learning set from a seller in Texas. They had it advertised for GSM (Global Shipping Program) set at Priority Mail for Canada . I paid $18+ usd for shipping.   I'm in Toronto and the seller is in Texas.

When I bought it on Nov 25 I got no response and the person did not ship it. I emailed them and waited.  No response at all but I did not worry since Nov 26 was US Thanksgiving --I thought they would respond to me.  Seven days later they had not responded or shipped anything so I put in a claim as INR (item not recieved) on the advice of a Ebay support (I've never done a claim before).

The Texan seller  then responded immediately , apologized  and shipped it (Dec 4 it was picked up by USPS). The Texan also asked me to close the claim as 'satisfied'.

(Meanwhile, Ebay staff advised me to keep the claim open (which I did) until I actually get the package. I believe claims stay open for 30 days and then are automatically closed (in whose favor I don't know, I've never needed to do a claim before--though Ive been on eBay since 2001 )).

I then recieved  the USPS and GSM numbers on my dashboard and waited. The last USPS updated was Dec 8. Today  is Dec 16 with no updates. Last one was in Dallas (on way to KY center).

I thought that was strange since I paid for Priority and it should have went to the GSM center in Erlanger Kentucky quicker even during this time.

PLOT TWIST:

As a matter of fact I have a current similar purchase (also an out of print book/audio(CD) lang set from a similar lang learning series) from another seller,  a lady in Clinton, Arkansas who advertised the same way: GSM to Canada and Priority shipping.  I bought that on dec 9 she shipped it next day with usps --its been updated regularly and is already at the Kentucky Pitney Bowes center. It was also $18+ usd for shipping (advertised as Priority shipping to Canada via GSM).    But she on the other hand kept her advertised promise and actually *DID* ship it via Priority. When I input her usps number it states that this is "Priority mail" and is insured for $50 etc. So Im waiting for hers with no problems.

I just inputed the Texan sellers number into the same official  USPS tracking site and it states "media mail".   Now I did not notice this earlier because from the Ebay dashboard "order details" it states "priority mail" but once you input the number to usps site its a different story. 

Now here is an added wrinkle:  Since this (the first order --the Texan sellers item) is going to take a long time to reach KY (usps media mail Im told is treated to the slowest movement) and status has not been updated since Dec 8 what should I do?

If I wait too long the case will be auto-closed (I think) on the 30th day after dec 2 (so around Jan 1 New Years) but I don't know what happens at that point.     From another thread I read that if its been 10 days with no movement then you should close the case and ask for a refund or call eBay to close the case and ask for a refund. 

Now I have no intention of keeping the full refund if the item eventually arrives (though I think I should get some sort of partial refund for the difference between media mail and priority).   If I contact eBay on say Dec 18-19 (ie. 10 days no updates from Dec 😎 and they give me a full refund plus PB (Pitney Bowes ) shipping fees and the item eventually DOES arrive I would  *immediately* contact eBay to reverse the refund at that time. 

What do you think?   Should I do the above?   Or just wait until the time  runs out and it closes automatically around New Years day  (whether its arrived or not) --though in that case I dont know what the eBay decision would be.  Or wait some more until its updated but before the case closes  or etc ?  I really dont know what I should do . Im a good buyer and paid in good faith.  Please advise.

Also :  if the Texan seller had been honest and done what the Arkansas seller did this would have been avoided. AND if I hadn't opened a case so early there would have been more time allowance for the Texan seller.

other details:

I paid via credit card directly to eBay (not PayPal because I had inputed a new cc from the expired one and it had not been verified yet and PP did not let me use it until verification which would not have been for several days)

Please pardon this long post!  Any help would be appreciated

[femmefan1946 · Accepted solution]

The seller is confused and it is making him angry. Maybe he needs a Snickers.

He is paid to ship to KY. But your payment also covers Canadian duty and sales taxes as well as a ~$5USD and that is what you would be refunded.

And this is where he messed himself up by cheaping out on Media Mail.

If the book had arrived on time at Erlanger KY, he would not be refunding anything, because once it is in the hands of the GSP, his job was done*.

But he saved himself money by shipping by Media Mail.

Too bad, so sad.

He may be able to discuss getting the payment of import fees returned but that is another question entirely.

I'm sure you don't want to know the technicalities of paying import fees vs paying duty and sales tax. Best not to think about it.

You are not responsible to him for how much of his money was used for your refund.

He should be talking to Customer Support for that.

You do not need to communicate with him further if you have your payment back.

He made his bed, he has to lie in it.

I am old and cranky.

and states for that I will get "International Priority".  

That's one of the generic terms eBay uses to cover all the various and sundry services offered by sellers all around the world.

It is basically meaningless.

It might even cover a slow boat from China.

*Well, if he had sent you a Beanie Baby instead of the book, he would be responsible for that, but not for delivery-- or damage in transit from KY to Canada.

[americannostalgia · Accepted solution]

UPDATE: femmefan I wanted to give you an update. I contacted eBay and they agreed with me: they said 10 days no movement is unacceptable but the fact that I paid for priority thru GSP (it was the only option for Canada in the "shipping " options page on the auction means the seller should have paid for priority to go from TX to KY not merely "media mail'0. Ebay granted me full refund of the item 28 or so dollars plus full shipping back 18.23. Now the seller emailed me and accused me of only paying "4.75" for shipping so the "had to ship it via media mail". My eBay charge and receipt shows 18.23 and I sent a screenshot of it to the seller.

The problem is that the only option in their auction (in the shipping page on the auction) is for Canadians to pay 18.23 (at my postal code of M4C 3W7 in toronto) and states for that I will get "International Priority". Now I had another purchase from an seller in Arkansas (similar item book/audio set) and it said the SAME thing except the charge was $21 or so for "international priority" When I paid that (again only option on the shipping that it gave me) the seller sent me a usps number that usps site indentifies as "Priority " and it went from AK to KY so quick that its already released from the GSP center and is in the air coming to toronto as I write this. That item I bought in dec 10 . The TX item I bought in nov 25 and shipped dec 3) and is identified as 'usps media mail" when I input the track # in the usps site.

The TX seller is saying I should have told him and paid more outside of the regular shipping request if I wanted something other than media mail. Ebay staff disagrees with him because I paid the only option offered which states"international priority".

But I would really value your input here. I see you have a long history of helping people on here. What is the seller getting at here exactly?

[americannostalgia · Accepted solution]

Thanks femmefan! Ive sold some items over the last several years but Im not a pro seller but even I know not to bug the buyer with my mistakes. Once I had to pay shipping for an Aquaman figure that would mean the auction was a net loss (shipping was more than I put in and the price of the item!) but I did it because the mistake was mine. I packed the item and shipped it.  It was a lesson learned. I sure as heck did not bother the customer. Have a great weekend.

[onebadwolf · Accepted solution]

Technicalities of paying your own customs and taxes are easy. Google being your own customs broker. 2 phone calls, ans a credit card. It's not some dark art. And that's the hard way. If you want to, you can do it online.

[pjcdn2005]

 If a seller is sending directly to you with Priority, their listing would specify USPS Priority International.  But International Priority (note it does not specify  USPS) through the gsp is not specific service, it is just a term that the gsp uses. A seller using the gsp generally sends the item to Kentucky the same way that they would have sent the package domestically. Your one seller probably stated that they were using Priority for domestic mail so that’s what they used for your package to Kentucky.

Your current seller shows first class domestically for that package so that is what they should have used, not media mail.  Unfortunately right now, in some parts of the US the parcels are running slow regardless of the service being used.  Their listings shows that they have a 3 business day handling so if they mailed your package afterDec 1, they mailed it late.

One thing that I’m confused about..where did you open a case after just 7 or so days and was it an item not received case?  The est. delivery time on that listing  is14-18 business days so you shouldn’t have been able to open a claim until then.

if you did open a claim on eBay, it should tell you in the claim when you have to ask ebay to step on by.   If you don’t ask them to step on your then and they close the case, they would assume that you got the item or a refund since you did not ask them for help.  Don’t wait for the case to close on its own or you will be out the money.  But if possible,  I would wait a while longer to ask ebay to help because the mail is slow right now and the gsp is slower than usual too.  The seller hasn’t been doing a great job so far but I would still wait a bit longer.   

btw. If you are refunded and then you get the item, eBay can’t reverse the refund.  The seller would have to invoice you again.

[americannostalgia]

The lady form Arkansas had "priority" in the same way on her ad and when she shipped it to KY her usps tracking read "usps priority" on the usps site while his read 'usps media". Anyway

[americannostalgia]

Anyway Im not too familiar with 'claims' I looked at the dashboard and see its called a "request" that is opened. So maybe that means it has not been escalated into 'claim' mode? And its listed on "returns and cancelled orders" section. Very confusing. I might have to call eBay staff.

[americannostalgia]

just a note: My other seller from AK did *not* specify she was sending usps priority. She was just dedicated to make sure it reaches the KY center quickly. when I entered her usps tracking into the usps system it reads usps priority. She was just smart is all. As for the TX seller he DID specify that to us areas (and KY is in the US) he always sends usps 1st class. He states that in the body of the ad. And the USPS delivery standards chart says that usps 1st class to continental usa is the same as usps priority! so the TX seller literally as femmefan says cheapened out to save a few bucks. Short sighted. Ebay told me thats not my problem. Thanks for your commenting on all this.

[femmefan1946]

So maybe that means it has not been escalated into 'claim' mode? And its listed on "returns and cancelled orders" section. Very confusing. I might have to call eBay staff.

That might be because it was not opened in the Resolution Centre as Item Not Received?

EBay gave you a last estimated date for delivery.  That is when a Dispute can be opened.

Then the 30 day clock starts ticking.

And yes, you can escalate it to a Claim and get your refund.

Make sure you mention in the Dispute and the Claim that this is a GSP* related claim.

If the seller and GSP cannot prove delivery (not shipping, Delivery) you will be refunded.

Bonus.

If the purchase is delivered later, GSP does not want it back.

The only problem with this is that the seller who started the problem gets off scot-free. Once it has been delivered to the KY plant, his job is over.

Still this is business, not a game. Fair doesn't necessarily come into it.

Now I have no intention of keeping the full refund if the item eventually arrives (though I think I should get some sort of partial refund for the difference between media mail and priority)

Except, the GSP is a Seller Protection Program. Once delivered to Erlanger KY, his job is done and he keeps your payment.

And GSP doesn't want it either because it will mess up their bookkeeping costing more than whatever you refund.

Consider a charitable donation.  Food banks are feeling pretty desperate these days.

Note that you are also covered by Paypal against problem purchases. Their Resolution Centre allows Disputes for 180 days from Payment. So until mid-April.

And you are covered by the chargeback provisions of the credit card you back your PP account with.

So at some point you will be refunded, and you may get the purchase as well.

*Where do you get GSM from Global Shipping Program?

[americannostalgia]

"Consider a charitable donation. Food banks are feeling pretty desperate these days." -- Thanks femme fan --I do want the item, its just since I opened this "request" on the advice of eBay staff even though best delivery date has not passed. So what I'm worried about is the case closing before resolution in his favor. If its eventually delivered to the KY center --then Im confident it will arrive to toronto soon --I still want the item. I just dont want to be out the money and not have the item but waiting too long before escalating and thus losing any right to a refund. Thank you for your response. I just phoned eBay staff and they said to call them on Dec 18 which is one day after rest delivery date and they will advise me then.

[americannostalgia]

GSM-- yes Global shipping program. Im in Toronto and the seller is in Texas. I was charged Priority but he sent it to KY global center with media mail so of course its stuck almost 10 days now with no movement!

[americannostalgia]

GSM. yeah my mistake I meant GSP (I thought its GS Method).

Ps thank you for your advice. it makes sense. Ill talk to eBay staff on dec 18 or 19  (last day of estimated delivery is dec 18) and then go from there --probably escalate the claim.

You see I do want the item even if it comes to me late --its not a Christmas gift or anything --what Im scared of is all the stories of media mail being lost I see online and since:

 1) its been mailed media mail

2) hasn't reached the GSP warehouse in KY and

3) has been no updated info on the usps tracking since Dec 8 (just says Dallas sorting terminal) (today being Dec 16) --> 

Im worried about it being lost before it gets to KY (and eventually to me).   I dont mind if its late just if it gets lost. So Ill open the claim after estimated date and wait.  

[femmefan1946]

Shipments get delayed more than they get lost. Given the traffic all shippers handle it's totally amazing that anything gets delivered on time. I posted some pictures earlier of a USPS terminal. Wow.

[americannostalgia]

UPDATE: femmefan I wanted to give you an update. I contacted eBay and they agreed with me: they said 10 days no movement is unacceptable but the fact that I paid for priority thru GSP (it was the only option for Canada in the "shipping " options page on the auction means the seller should have paid for priority to go from TX to KY not merely "media mail'0. Ebay granted me full refund of the item 28 or so dollars plus full shipping back 18.23.

Now the seller emailed me and accused me of only paying "4.75" for shipping so the "had to ship it via media mail".  My eBay charge and receipt shows 18.23 and I sent a screenshot of it to the seller.  They came back with (and I quote their email here in full): 

--quote:

"If you look at my image it said that you were refunded $32.75. On my end you paid $4.75 for shipping and $28.00 for the item, that total is $32.75. The $18.23 NEVER touched my hands. In fact, the funds were pending until delivery, so I actually received $0.

I know that you did pay $46.23. From my standpoint you paid me/ebay $28.00 (item), $4.75 (shipping) = $32.75. From my understanding the remaining went straight to the Global Shipping.

Yes, I offer priority shipping but only if you pay for it. I believe that ebay is showing both of us different information. I also believe that we are both correct based on what we can actually see on our ends (see images). Trust me, all that I could see was that you paid $28 for the item and $4.75 for shipping and that Global Shipping received $18.23, so I purchased shipping based on that amount. If the shipping total was $18.23 instead of $4.75, I would have chosen a shipping method that reflected that."

--  end quote 

The problem with the above is that the only option in their auction (in the shipping page on the auction) is for Canadians to pay 18.23  (at my postal code of M4C 3W7 in toronto) and states for that I will get "International Priority".   

Now I had another purchase from an seller in Arkansas (similar item book/audio set)  and it said the SAME thing except the charge was  $21 or so for "international priority" When I paid that (again only option on the shipping that it gave me)  the seller sent me a usps number that usps site indentifies as "Priority "  and it went from AK to KY so quick that its already released from the GSP center and is in the air coming to toronto as I write this.  That item I bought in dec 10 .  The TX item I bought in nov 25 and shipped dec 3) and is identified as 'usps media mail" when I input the  track # in the usps site.

The TX seller is saying I should have told him and paid more outside of the regular shipping request if I wanted something other than media mail.  Ebay staff disagrees with him because I paid the only option offered which states"international priority".

But I would really value your input here. I see you have a long history of helping people on here.  What is the seller getting at here exactly?

[pjcdn2005]

The seller is correct that you and her are seeing two different shipping options. You see options for Canada, and they see options for the US. They do not set up any international options when the gsp is used, they only set up domestic options as they are only shipping to Kentucky as the gsp does the rest.

Buyers are not given shipping options when they buy from a gsp seller. When they pay, they are paying for the sellers first domestic shipping option for that listing and that money goes to the seller. If the sellers first domestic option is for usps Priority, the buyer pays for Priorty. If the first option is first class, that’s what the buyer pays for. You don’t see the domestic option and you don’t see a specific domestic shipping cost....you only see the combined shipping cost for both the domestic and international portion and it will always say Priorty International Shipping. As I said earlier that is a generic term and does not refer to usps Priority. It’s definitely confusing.

[americannostalgia]

pjcdn2005. I understand. And as femmefan said the seller went for the cheap service instead of the priority for the domestic mailing *to* the GSP center in KY. My other seller (similar sale) in AK actually paid priority to KY and that makes a big difference. Anyway I agree with femmefan that its not my concern. You know when I sell I NEVER complain to the customers about mistakes I made --if I charged too little shipping I still ship with a fast service and chalk it up to a learning experience. Thank you for your help. Ebay should pay you guys I see your names all the time on here!

[reallynicestamps]

LOL. Don't know about pj, but I have no life.

[americannostalgia]

UPDATE: eBay refunded me since 10 days had past with no movement. As of Sunday no movement for 19 days. Anyway if it eventually arrives at GSP center (ie TX to KY center) and GSP ships to me (Canada) --I am told that its GSP/ebay will refund the seller. I am curious --is this true?

I thought that only happens when the item is refunded after it's received at GSP KY  and ships from GSP not if its refunded by eBay before it reaches GSP KY center.  

Sorry to trouble you again femmefan but could you comment on that?  

PS Because I needed the item I went ahead and bought it  (and received  it already) elsewhere  (an FBA amazon.ca seller) at a higher price. So I dont need it if it finally arrives sometimes in the new year.