Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid

On every listing page there is an option about the top right corner to share the item via Emai, Facebook, Twitter & Pinterest.

 

Wouldn't it be great if we could share items via Ebay UserIDs?

 

Instead of entering an email address, just enter the user id.

 

This feature seems long overdue and please forgive me if it is somehow already available.

 

For example :

 

I had a buyer send me a message about an item using Ebays message service.

 

I copied and pasted a link to an item that i thought would interest the buyer.

 

When i looked at the sent message , the link is there but it is not active, the buyer will have to copy and paste the link into her browser in order to view the item. This is an extra step in my opinion that some buyers may have trouble with. Not every one is tech savvy.

 

All of this could be solved with a share button Ebay users.

 

BTW you're welcome Ebay for this great tip, i would like a half a cent for everyone that uses this once it is implemented, please send the monthly cheque to my home address, thanks

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid

I'm certain I'm not incorrect about this. I'll ask Raphael at Board Hour on Wednesday for absolute clarification. 

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid

You are overlooking the fact that the ebay seller would not have access to the ebay buyer's email address without ebay's sales platform which has allowed and facilitated the sales transaction. It's not the seller's data to which you are referring: it is ebay's data. Sellers have no legal right use it, period. The buyer has not agreed to do business with the seller, the buyer has agreed to provide ebay with that information in order to facilitate purchases.

 

If I were you, I would postpone sending any more newsletters to the ebay buyer's email addresses you have culled from your Sales Records. in the short term, at least, until Raphael can speak to this. 

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid


@mjwl2006 wrote:
What you say is true but unless a sellers ships with a rented P.O.Box as a Return Address, every buyer knows where every seller lives as soon as they receive their package.

In principle, however, I do agree with you. Nothing makes me more irate than when my personal information is used for something I didn't grant permission. It's been a deal-breaker for me with retailers, I won't shop again with any who take my data and use it for telemarketing or spam. Ever. I don't sign up or agree to anything so it's very obvious to me when it's been misused.

However, Canadian law stipulates that as soon as you knowingly enter into a transaction with a seller (whether on eBay or elsewhere), you have given implied consent for access to your email account.  Still, this doesn't mean the consent can be abused with impunity.  There are provisions of the legislation which protect consumers who feel bombarded and importuned.  

 

This is where sellers' duty to respect their buyers is paramount.  Good judgment in using a private email list is essential.  As I said earlier, an "opt out" in the initial email is what a courteous seller should offer, even though most email programmes these days provide simple ways for automatically isolating or disposing of unwanted commercial emails.  

 

One company got my email address through a transaction (not via eBay) and was sending me promo emails every week.  I asked them to cease, and when they didn't, their email address got added to my "spam" list, and that's where every one of their emails now goes, to be deleted -- unread -- along with the rest of the garbage. That company certainly didn't win my loyalty.  

 

So in the end, not being sensitive and respectful to clients when contacting them is, as you say, the surest way of guaranteeing they will never deal with you again.  Although using email lists from transactions is permitted, I think the best way to see it is as a valuable privilege, and handle it accordingly.  

 

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid

I know you want to believe this is true but, within the allowed halls of ebay, we are not allowed to cull ebay buyer contact information for seller off-site purposes. That's spam, plain and simple. It is prohibited. 

 

But you don't have to take my word for it. Raphael will speak to this on Wednesday. If I'm incorrect, I'll come back to this thread and set the record straight. Actually, I'll do that with his answer regardless; it will be cross-referenced with this thread. I don't want readers of the future to make a misstep due to contradictory information. 

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid


@rose-dee wrote:

@mjwl2006 wrote:
What you say is true but unless a sellers ships with a rented P.O.Box as a Return Address, every buyer knows where every seller lives as soon as they receive their package.

In principle, however, I do agree with you. Nothing makes me more irate than when my personal information is used for something I didn't grant permission. It's been a deal-breaker for me with retailers, I won't shop again with any who take my data and use it for telemarketing or spam. Ever. I don't sign up or agree to anything so it's very obvious to me when it's been misused.

However, Canadian law stipulates that as soon as you knowingly enter into a transaction with a seller (whether on eBay or elsewhere), you have given implied consent for access to your email account.  Still, this doesn't mean the consent can be abused with impunity.  There are provisions of the legislation which protect consumers who feel bombarded and importuned.  

 

 

 


No, I haven't. If that seller was an ebay seller, I didn't agree to share anything with the seller. I agreed to share it with ebay. And therefore as a buyer, I trust ebay to safeguard it and send me appropriate email and/or My Ebay Messages communication, such as only the seller newsletter emails that I have signed up to receive legitimately. It's not the seller's information. It's mine, and ebay's. 

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid


@mjwl2006 wrote:

You are overlooking the fact that the ebay seller would not have access to the ebay buyer's email address without ebay's sales platform which has allowed and facilitated the sales transaction. It's not the seller's data to which you are referring: it is ebay's data. Sellers have no legal right use it, period. The buyer has not agreed to do business with the seller, the buyer has agreed to provide ebay with that information in order to facilitate purchases.

 

If I were you, I would postpone sending any more newsletters to the ebay buyer's email addresses you have culled from your Sales Records. in the short term, at least, until Raphael can speak to this. 


I'm sorry, I had to smile at this second suggestion.  I don't think Raphael is a lawyer, and I can imagine what his (and eBay's) position will always be on this: don't do it, or at very least a stern discouragement.  

 

Of course eBay wants to protect what it sees as its exclusive purview from any incursions.  However in this particular, narrow context they have no jurisdiction, even if they would never want to say so.  Why would they?  It would be completely against their interests to inform sellers of this possibility, or appear to condone it.  

 

If they actually had such legal jurisdiction, they could also prohibit sellers from contacting their buyers by telephone, or for that matter inserting a private note in a parcel with promotional information.  Control over either is not only a practical impossibility, but a legal nullity.  The same applies to person-to-person email contact outside of eBay.   

 

EBay doesn't own our buyers.  Granted, they do -- quite rightly -- have control over how that data is used on their site.  By transacting with a seller here, a buyer is, according to Canadian law, providing implied consent for the use of his or her email address.  I doubt most buyers think they are not doing business with the seller they select to purchase from, but it really doesn't matter how the transaction is perceived.  It is the fact that a transaction exists between the two which provides the opening under the law.  In a dispute of this nature, a court would look at whether the underlying requirement of the law was satisfied (i.e. was there a transaction or not), and if that fact could be shown, the implied consent would follow.  It's as simple as that, regardless of how eBay would like to see it. 

 

However, I will say again that it's critical to appreciate that this permission provided by the statute is a privilege not to be abused without consequences, so a seller must be circumspect and courteous about its use.  It's not a perpetually open door.  And, as you've pointed out, over-use can backfire on the seller. 

 

Once more, this is why I would stress that the very first approach include a means for the customer to opt out completely and that the seller respect the response.

 

You might recall Pierre Lebel and his massive customer email list he often mentioned.  He understood the new law and its implications and how to properly use that list, which is the essential point. 

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid


@mjwl2006 wrote:

However, Canadian law stipulates that as soon as you knowingly enter into a transaction with a seller (whether on eBay or elsewhere), you have given implied consent for access to your email account.  Still, this doesn't mean the consent can be abused with impunity.  There are provisions of the legislation which protect consumers who feel bombarded and importuned.  

 

 

No, I haven't. If that seller was an ebay seller, I didn't agree to share anything with the seller. I agreed to share it with ebay. And therefore as a buyer, I trust ebay to safeguard it and send me appropriate email and/or My Ebay Messages communication, such as only the seller newsletter emails that I have signed up to receive legitimately. It's not the seller's information. It's mine, and ebay's. 


Whether you believe you've given your information to eBay or to the seller is irrelevant in terms of this particular provision of the law.  The fact of the transaction is sufficient to establish implied consent.  

 

Whether you believe you would actually give consent or not is not relevant in the face of a transaction during which your email address is shared, although I suppose someone may eventually try to test this section of the law on the basis of the argument you've used.  Whether a court would find it valid is impossible to say.  Such tests do sometimes succeed, and have the effect of re-interpreting the law.  But I don't think that has happened yet, since this law is relatively new.  

 

Realistically, I know when I buy from a seller that that seller is going to have my email address -- it's right there on the transaction record, both on eBay and Paypal.  If there is a transaction where an email address is provided, it falls under implied consent.  As I said, that doesn't mean the consent is permanent or can be misused by a seller without consequences.  It's a privileged exception to the law.  

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid

I should add, as we all know, that eBay is forever reminding buyers they are entering into a legally-binding contract with the seller when purchasing an item.  I doubt a court would accordingly interpret the relationship not to constitute implied consent, since there is both a transaction and a stipulated contract between the parties under eBay rules (the fact that the contract is in digitally-written form is irrelevant).  Once again: 

 

Under "Implied Consent" the following is included:

 

  • Existing business relationship
    The person has made a transaction, an inquiry, an application or a written contract for the purchase or barter of products, goods or services.
Message 28 of 71
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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid

And this, from the FAQ page for the statute, which helps to clarify the situation for those of us who already have a collected email list (my emphasis added): 

 

Can I use my existing mailing list to promote products and services?

Yes, you can continue to use email to promote products and services if you have express consent or one of the several different forms of implied consent. Make sure you properly identify yourself in the message and provide an option to unsubscribe from future commercial electronic messages.

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid

One other caveat, now that I think of it: there is a 2-year window permitted for implied consent.  This means a seller with a list of email addresses collected from transactions will have to, strictly speaking, obtain consent from anyone with whom business was transacted more than 2 years in the past.  The relevant excerpt from the statute is below (the section sets out the various types of implied consent): 

 

  • (a) the purchase or lease of a product, goods, a service, land or an interest or right in land, within the two-year period immediately before the day on which the message was sent, by the person to whom the message is sent from any of those other persons;

 

 

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid

Well, I've just sent a very detailed request for clarification on this point to the OCA (Office of Consumer Affairs) which is one of the national coordinating bodies for the Act in question.  

 

I think this is the more appropriate and reliable channel to ask for guidance as to what is or is not permitted under the statute, rather than asking someone representing eBay, who will not be in a position to provide a completely unbiased response.  Actually, asking this question of Raphael would be unfair, since it would put him between a rock and a hard place.  

 

I will come back to this thread as soon as I have a reply from the OCA.  I will provide the reply honestly and verbatim, regardless of whether I'm right or wrong about this.  Please be patient, it could take a few days.  

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid

Again, you keep overlooking the fact this is ebay's playground. The rules apply here first. You can't collect buyer information from ebay's buyers for your own business's spam. They're not our buyers, they're ebay's. None of my buyers gave ME their address, they gave it to ebay which is entrusting me to not abuse it when I handle it to tract their order. As much as you may wish it otherwise.

 

From the policy I cited earlier: "We encourage open communication between our members but we don't allow our members to use these options to send spam, offers to buy or sell off eBay, threats, profanity, or hate speech." By ebay's definition, "Spam is an email (or part of an email) that is both unsolicited and commercial in nature. Unsolicited means the person who received the message didn't request it. Commercial means the message discusses buying, selling, or trading of goods or services."

 

The buyers to which you have been sending your outside-ebay newsletters didn't request it. It is of a commercial nature. Therefore, it is spam and what you are doing is prohibited. 

 

When Raphael answers this question next Wednesday, he is doing it in a public forum for everyone to see. No one can doubt the authenticity of it. How do you plan to share the information that you intend to collect from the Office of Consumer Affairs seeing as how we're not allowed on the Discussion Board to copy and paste communication from a third party? I'll call there myself on Monday morning. 

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid


rose-dee wrote:... You might recall Pierre Lebel and his massive customer email list he often mentioned.  He understood the new law and its implications and how to properly use that list, which is the essential point. 

Or maybe that massive list was the culmination of all his years spent selling on ebay and it was ebay's newsletter to which he was referring. I wouldn't presume anything on another member's behalf, especially around the touchy point of prohibited actions. 

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid

mjwl2006 wrote:

"They're not our buyers, they're ebay's".

 

This is exactly what I'm hoping the OCA will clarify.  It will apply not only to eBay, but to every platform on which sellers transact business.  The interpretation under the Act turns on whether a transaction has occurred, not on who brought the buyer to the transaction. 

 

 

When Raphael answers this question next Wednesday, he is doing it in a public forum for everyone to see. No one can doubt the authenticity of it. How do you plan to share the information that you intend to collect from the Office of Consumer Affairs seeing as how we're not allowed on the Discussion Board to copy and paste communication from a third party? I'll call there myself on Monday morning. 

 

There's no need to get over-excited immediately.  Be patient for a few days, and I'll post the information here (in a brief summary) from the OCA, along with an offer to provide the verbatim response to anyone who wants to examine it themselves.  Actually, I think the rule against posting verbatim applies to eBay members' words, not a report from the federal government, but I could be wrong.  Maybe you can ask one of the moderators and let me know, as I'd prefer to post the text just as I receive it. 

 

You can ask Raphael about this issue if you like, but before rushing into that, please consider the position you're putting him in.  

 

I'm certain he isn't going to feel comfortable or qualified to interpret Canada's laws for us, but he will feel obliged to respond to protect eBay.  I didn't suggest he wouldn't be answering in a public forum; that fact has nothing to do with the quality of his response.  My concern would be his ability to respond in a completely neutral way (even if he were willing or able to wade into the legal specifics of the statute), since he is an employee of eBay, and therefore not a disinterested party.  This matter concerns questions outside the ambit of eBay.  

 

I think the federal government's response will be unbiased and the best authority to rely on, at least until there is more case law considered under this Act.  I've taken a look at that case law so far, it's extremely sparse, and the cases that have been recorded are completely irrelevant to our situation as eBay sellers.  To be honest with you, after having skimmed through those 3 cases, I'd have to say that an misinterpretation of the law, or an sincere belief that one is acting appropriately, would be unlikely to get as far as the courts anyway.  There is a compliance process which gives any person against whom an application has been made an opportunity to correct errors and procedures (that is, in the absence of an actual claim of damages or losses by the complainant).  

 

Just sit tight for a few days if you would.  I'll bookmark this thread and will post the reply I get from the OCA.  

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid


@mjwl2006 wrote:
Or maybe that massive list was the culmination of all his years spent selling on ebay and it was ebay's newsletter to which he was referring. I wouldn't presume anything on another member's behalf, especially around the touchy point of prohibited actions. 

No, no, I'm not presuming anything at all, this was something Pierre actually talked about, and recommended on a number of occasions.  It had nothing to do with eBay's store newsletter lists.  He was speaking specifically about collecting emails from his sales and marketing to them -- outside eBay of course, via his personal email address.

 

I don't think we should refer to this as a prohibited action until we are actually certain that it is.  At the moment, it's an unresolved question.  I'd be happy to concede that my reading of the statute is incorrect if the OCA says so.  That's perfectly fine with me, but I don't want to label it illegal until declared by the appropriate federal agency to be prohibited. 

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid

What to you may not be illegal may still be prohibited by the ebay user agreement. That is my whole and entire point. 

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid


@rose-dee wrote:

@mjwl2006 wrote:
Or maybe that massive list was the culmination of all his years spent selling on ebay and it was ebay's newsletter to which he was referring. I wouldn't presume anything on another member's behalf, especially around the touchy point of prohibited actions. 

No, no, I'm not presuming anything at all, this was something Pierre actually talked about, and recommended on a number of occasions.  It had nothing to do with eBay's store newsletter lists.  He was speaking specifically about collecting emails from his sales and marketing to them -- outside eBay of course, via his personal email address.

 

I don't think we should refer to this as a prohibited action until we are actually certain that it is.  At the moment, it's an unresolved question.  I'd be happy to concede that my reading of the statute is incorrect if the OCA says so.  That's perfectly fine with me, but I don't want to label it illegal until declared by the appropriate federal agency to be prohibited. 


Please cite your source. If Pierre did discus it here, you should be able to find it for us. Or reach out to him to invite him back to comment on this thread. I'm certain he'd love to hear from you again. 

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid


@mjwl2006 wrote:

What to you may not be illegal may still be prohibited by the ebay user agreement. That is my whole and entire point. 


I do understand your point, but eBay can't prohibit something that happens outside their legal purview.  They can restrict users to any extent they like as long as the activities are conducted on their site.  But they can't make laws for non-eBay transactions.  Otherwise, as I said, they could prohibit me from telephoning my buyer afterward, or sending them a private letter.  It's completely analogous.  

 

Once eBay has facilitated a transaction and given us a buyer's email address, they have put us in the position of being able to comply with Canada's laws where contacts or communication outside of eBay are concerned. 

 

Even if eBay discontinued providing us with a buyer's email address, which I suppose they could do if they really wanted to, we would still have the buyer's email through Paypal, and there would still be a "business relationship" or transaction.  EBay can't control the entire world of commerce and each country's laws in which they do business, although I'm sure they'd like to. 

 

 

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid


@rose-dee wrote:

@mjwl2006 wrote:

What to you may not be illegal may still be prohibited by the ebay user agreement. That is my whole and entire point. 


I do understand your point, but eBay can't prohibit something that happens outside their legal purview.  They can restrict users to any extent they like as long as the activities are conducted on their site.  But they can't make laws for non-eBay transactions.  Otherwise, as I said, they could prohibit me from telephoning my buyer afterward, or sending them a private letter.  It's completely analogous.  

 

Once eBay has facilitated a transaction and given us a buyer's email address, they have put us in the position of being able to comply with Canada's laws where contacts or communication outside of eBay are concerned. 

 

Even if eBay discontinued providing us with a buyer's email address, which I suppose they could do if they really wanted to, we would still have the buyer's email through Paypal, and there would still be a "business relationship" or transaction.  EBay can't control the entire world of commerce and each country's laws in which they do business, although I'm sure they'd like to. 

 

 


By extension of the user agreement, they certainly can. As does paypal, I am certain. These aren't our customers. Buyers are giving their data to the sites we serve, not us. Ebay and Paypal share it with sellers on the condition that sellers don't abuse it. Spam is abuse of those terms. 

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Ebay Feature Request - Share items to userid


@mjwl2006 wrote:
Please cite your source. If Pierre did discus it here, you should be able to find it for us. Or reach out to him to invite him back to comment on this thread. I'm certain he'd love to hear from you again. 

Oh I don't think I have to "cite my source".  I'm fairly sure others who have been around here for a few years will remember him discussing his customer email list.  If you have time you can try slogging through the last 3 or 4 years of board discussions to find some entries on this subject by him.  I'm not going to pester Pierre about this, nor ask him to get embroiled in interpreting the law.  

 

Let's just be patient and wait a few days please.  We'll have some better information soon enough. 

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