eBay Global shipping program?

[worldwandering]

Anybody else get invited to this?

They deal with all customs forms, etc by shipping to a US address?  Feedback is protected from low ratings etc?

What the heck are they talking about?

I said yes, and now they are going to revise all my listings.  I don't understand this nebulous program.  Can anybody sum it up gracefully?

Thank you!

[brandeentertainment]

To all US movie sellers please opt in to the GSP program you are helping my sales alot ... LOL

[busybeas_books]

This is my second purchase with GSP. The first one actually worked out cheaper overall than similar previous (non GSP) purchases so I wasn't too concerned. I make 15-20 purchases a year from the US and have not had a customs fee in in the last 8 years

Friday I bought 4 cds lots (6 discs) from California for just under $6.00. The invoice came out with over $38 for shipping and GSP fee. I emailed the seller asking for cheap old USPS and he replied no problem but I had to click on the 'request an invoice' button. This I did and then got the invoice for about $14 shipping, a $24+ difference.

[i*m-still-here]

Are you saying that the sellers were able to send you new invoices without the GSP program?

At the beginning of the program that wasn't an option.

Maybe they've changed that now.

[rockandroll3000]

I'm in Canada (both a buyer and a casual seller), and for a long time now I've refused to purchase goods from U.S. sellers who only use UPS or FedEx to ship. I might ask if they'd consider using USPS (either First Class International or Priority Mail International), and sometimes the answer is yes, but more often it's no. I have a list of about 25 sellers that only ship via UPS or FedEx (no fault of their own - it's a free world), and always add them to my Exclusion List in all my Saved Searches.

Needless to say, the reason is that UPS and FedEx rip us off with insane extra fees above and beyond any tax I might have to pay. For a $200 item, the all-in "extras" including tax (but not including the initial shipping costs) would be about $60 to $70. These include "disbursement fees, customs processing, bond fees, a percentage of the declared value . . . and not to mention tax on all those services".

OTOH, with USPS/Canada Post, I'm only charged an $8.50 flat fee for "customs processing" plus any applicable taxes (in my case 12%). So, a $200 item shipped via USPS/Canada Post would cost me a maximum of $32 in fees and taxes. Extrapolate that to a $1,000 or $1,500 item, and you can see why UPS and FedEx are literally loathed here in Canada.

For the same reason, as of now, I also refuse to purchase from U.S. sellers who use the Global Shipping Program. I do not want UPS or FedEx holding me ransom in order to receive my item, as seems to be their "business plan" for U.S. to Canada shipping.

I have to emphasize that it's not to avoid paying tax . . . if the postman shows up at the door with a bill for tax, so be it. I'll pay the 12% tax plus a modest fee for paperwork, but never again will I pay UPS or FedEx the extra fees they seem to levy like drunken sailors (no offense intended to drunken sailors, of course).

The Global Shipping Program is probably as bad or worse for U.S. sellers as insisting on using UPS or FedEx. Just today, an item came up on my Saved Searches for a pretty decent price, but the seller used the Global Shipping Program. I passed on the purchase, but if the seller had offered USPS Priority Mail International I would have clicked "Buy It Now" in a heartbeat.

'Nuff said . . .

[Anonymous]

When I was checking for the specific fabrics that I need and saw that one seller has 2 fabrics that I wanted but has GSP and I contacted and asked her if she would opt out of GSP and explained about GSP.  Needless to say she was so happy that I contacted her about GSP as she was wondering why she no longer have Canadian and European buyers the last 3 weeks, she usually sell a lot of fabrics to them until she opt into GSP, all of sudden her sales went to zero!

She was happy to opt out of GSP and revised her listings and bingo, she sold 8 of them in 5 hours including 2 to me.  She said that she fell for it because of 50% final value fees but I told her that offer was good until March 31, so it is nothing worth it after March 31.  And she admitted that she didn't like the idea of possible delivery delay like slow mail service if she has to send them to warehouse like eBay will ask them to before her items will be finally be out of US.

She said that she is going to talk to some sellers that she knew to opt out of this insane bogus program.

I talked to one of persons who work at the custom department about this GSP and she laughed her head off!!  She said that it is for large heavy expensive parcels not like small parcels that I have been receiving like fabrics, 8x10's, magazines, DVDs, etc.  She said we are better off taking risks when our parcels arrive at the custom border and may ding our parcels but mostly not going to happen. 

I bid and won something that is heavy and I knew I may be charged for duty fees for it and received a huge heavy parcel a few weeks ago and to my surprise that I wasn't charged for the duty fees at all!   Go figure!!  We are better off taking risks at the custom border than paying those hefty import charges on eBay.

Yeah, if US sellers don't want to sell their items to us, then opt in this insane bogus program.  Other way some small sellers here in Canada may have good sales for change?

[patamon1]

I just got dinged with this ($23 shipping and duty on a $36.00 trading card ... a tiny trading card!).  The seller thought the shipping was outrageous and was confused as the shipping they entered was $7 all in.  They would not ship it to me by any other method, and only offered to include a note asking eBay to refund me the extra charges (yeah, that'll work :P). So I'm stuck.

I can't say how disgusted I am by this practice (especially dividing the paypal invoices so the seller never knows all the extra the buyer was charged).  I'm trying to warn everyone I can to avoid auctions with GSP.  I had a great item at a great price until the brokerage fee got magically slapped on at the end.

How would you ever NOT get surprised when the brokerage fees are based on final value (and if you snipe the auction, it's like ding!  Surprise!)?

Thanks everyone here for their insight.  I wish I had seen this forum sooner!

[recped]

I talked to one of persons who work at the custom department about this GSP and she laughed her head off!!  She said that it is for large heavy expensive parcels not like small parcels that I have been receiving like fabrics, 8x10's, magazines, DVDs, etc.  She said we are better off taking risks when our parcels arrive at the custom border and may ding our parcels but mostly not going to happen.

Either the customs person doesn't have a clue or didn't understand your GSP explanation,. There are dozen of full 18 wheelers crossing the border at Windsor and Buffalo every day filled with small orders sent under the same type of system as GSP (but not GSP, not Pitney-Bowes and not eBay).

She was right about the last part though, plenty of stuff over the limit passes tax free.

[rockandroll3000]

As I said previously, the GSP (and UPS/FedEx for that matter) add a host of additional fees that are absolutely not necessary nor required to ship from the U.S. to Canada.

Below is a partial list of charges, "services" and fees that may be levied under the GSP program. I left out the section regarding Customs Services because many, if not most, items shipped from the U.S. to Canada are exempt under the Free Trade Agreement. But, if a duty is levied (which it rarely is, as U.S. customers who buy from Canada know full well), then that duty will be levied regardless of carrier. I personally have never been charge duty for any item purchased from the U.S. (I've bought in the neighbourhood $25,000 in musical equipment over the past 4 years). I have only been charged tax, and even then it's only been about 15% to 20% of the time. I can't control how efficient or inefficient Canada Post is at collecting tax . . . I suspect they're simply undermanned and can't process the volume of smaller items being shipped across the border. Then again, I don't use UPS or FedEx, and both these companies make their money by making 100% sure they maximize the tax and/or duty to the letter of the law because they make their profit on fees charged for the total value of the item, including taxes and/or duty (not to mention the additional baseline "processing/bond/disbursement" fees).

I cannot emphasize enough that USPS/Canada Post only charge a flat rate of $8.50. This is mostly for "import/customs" handling, but also for acting as a tax collector on behalf of the CRA (Canada Revenue Agency). That's it. Period. Is an item is declared at $100, Canada Post collects $20.05 (12% tax + $8.50 fee). If an item is declared at $1,000, Canada Post collects $128.50 (12% tax + $8.50 fee). With UPS, FedEx and the GSP, you could easily end up paying $40 in fees + tax on a $100 item, and up to $300 in fees + tax on a $1,000 item.

1. Fuel surcharges: any and all fuel surcharges charged to Pitney Bowes by its service providers, to the extent not included within the international shipping fee;
2. Transaction fee: a variable fee covering selling, general, and administrative expenses, software development, operations, software licenses, hardware, and hosting by Pitney Bowes;
3. Parcel processing service fee: a variable fee covering services by the third party parcel processing service providers;
4. Distribution center management fee: a variable fee covering management by Pitney Bowes of the third party parcel processing service providers and related software systems;
5. Loss management fee: a variable fee covering the expenses to Pitney Bowes of insuring the risks to it of lost or damaged items;
6. Transportation risk premium fee and variances: a variable fee covering operational expenses associated with short-term loss recovery and the management of any variances between the quoted Shipping amount and actual costs; and,
7. Referral fee: a variable fee paid by Pitney Bowes to eBay Inc. for referring you to the Program
8. Classification fee: a variable fee associated with the assignment of a Harmonized System (“HS”) classification code to each commodity. An HS classification code is a numerical code used as the basis for the calculation of applicable customs duties and is usually required by your local customs authorities for importation declaration. If the GSP Item that you purchase is not subject to Import charges, this fee will be included within the Shipping amount quoted to you;
9. Export compliance fee: a fee covering export compliance screening, verification that export licenses are not required, and the assignment of an Export Control Classification Number (ECCN). If the GSP Item that you purchase is not subject to Import charges, this fee will be included within the Shipping amount quoted to you; and,
10. Importation risk premium fee and variances: a variable fee covering operational expenses associated with short-term loss recovery and the management of any variances between the quoted Import charges and actual costs.

[pocomocomputing]

A minor correction. Canada Post fee is $9.95 now, not $8.50. It went up twice in the last two years from $5 to $8.50 to current $9.95.

[rockandroll3000]

Sorry . . . my mistake, pocomocomputing . . . you're absolutely right.

Not to bring the infrequency and rare instances that Canada Post actually collects tax upon delivery as a factor in the discussion (because it would be hypocritical for me to say, "they never bother to enforce the law, so I like them better," even if there's a element of truth in that, and human nature is human nature, and a buck saved is buck saved), but it had been so long since they bothered to collect tax, I'd forgotten they raised the rate to around $10.00.

Thanks for the accuracy check there. We definitely have to have our figures right in making the case to U.S. sellers that using GSP, UPS and FedEx greatly discourage sales to Canada.

And, as most U.S sellers will know, Canada is indeed a huge market to tap that's geographically close (I describe it as analogous to a long, skinny state that's 5000 miles long and about 300 miles high . . . that's where 85% of the population lives), has the 8th largest economy in the world, a pop base of about 35 million, and a higher GNP than New York State or Texas (roughly 1.5 trillion per year . . . second only to California). 'Dems not peanuts.

Scrap the GSP . . . and avoid UPS and FedEx like the plague. U.S. sellers who use those carriers are greatly diminishing their sales to a market that's 85% the size of California.

[rockandroll3000]

Ooops . . . again, pocomocomputing . . . D'oh!

Just looked it up, and Canada has slipped to the 10th largest economy by country. Spain dropped off the Top 10 in 2010, and India is 9th as of the 2012 stats. I think prior to 2009, India was 9th and Canada was 8th. I was really surprised to see Italy has been 7th for ages . . . sure hammers home why everyone's so nervous about the Eurozone.

BTW--maybe if U.S sellers keep using GSP, UPS and FedEx, it will lead to more sales within Canada for people like yourself. I know I'd rather buy from you than have UPS or FedEx show up at my door wanting my first born. Personally, I much prefer to buy within the country for obvious personal and economic reasons, but TTYTT some of the music gear I want simply isn't available in Canada very often.

[sharkhark]

Hi, I bought an item a couple weeksaago fromuusa. Pair headlights. Arrived quickly via usps to canada. 

Within 8 days. 

Tracking showed entire way even when handled by cda post for final delivery. 

Last week I bid and won an item this was a gsp global shipping program item that on eBay.ca did not show all this extra nonsense until auction was over. 

I felt obligated even though the final amt took a $113 golf driver and turned it into a $190 item. 

What a horrible rip off. My typical usa shipping charge is thru usps and is $30.

With gsp I paid over $40.

My typical customs is zero as exempt but taxes could be charged and would be $17 although in 25 purchases only paid twice. I but it's possible. 

Thru gsp it was over $30.

This steal deal became Luke warm. 

Other auctions even ones ending $25 more than mine would have saved money. 

What made it worse was the promise of global international tracking. 

I got nothing. 

Ebay no longer has email so while running my own small food business in a mall alone I was on phone with ebay and transferred for 45 minutes with phone crooked in my ear making and processing food orders. 

Seller said ebay produces new gsp tracking. 

Ebay says seller does. Argh! 

So ebay says here is ten bucks for your trouble which is not acceptable. 

I want tracking, I want to follow item but even after promised looking into it all I got was tracking number showing from seller to a usa address at pitney bowes and then the tracking ends. 

[sharkhark]

Hi I forgot to add that the credit they offered I thought was PayPal credit it's a timellimited expires in one month credit to buy something?? 

Gee no tracking but spend more money? What? 

Now the cda post link shows under tracking after you follow usa tracking and indicated "your item expected delivery is April 16th."

What! Cda post delivers with a time machine? The 16th was yesterday. So who do i complain to for paying inflated trumped up delivery charges and not receiving what ebay promises which is tracking from usa to me. 

An item just showing up unexpectedly at some unknown time in future is not tracking. Tracking is what seller of other usa item gave me showing California to canada to local to me. Smoothly every step. 

T involved cda post as final step yet was every step. 

New gsp just says transferred to cda with expected delivery of a date in past? 

[rockandroll3000]

I hear ya all the way, sharkhark . . .

It's hard to tell exactly how many U.S. sellers are using GSP, but I called up a few of my eBay.ca Saved Searches, and luckily so far, it only appears to be about 1 in 5 to 1 in 6. Most of those are merchants who sell new products, and in my field (musical equipment) I can order that stuff from private stores in the U.S. that ship via USPS and even offer coupon discounts of 10% to 15%. I know it's not the same in every category, but that's how it shakes out for what I buy.

IMHO, GSP isn't much worse than UPS and FedEx (as I've said in previous posts), so it's really just another whittling down of the sellers available to me on eBay. I won't buy from any seller who ships GSP, UPS or FedEX because the same excessive costs as you experienced result with all these services.

TTYTT, I really don't care anymore (although, yes . . . I am still writing about it). I don't have a preference about who I buy from aside from choice of shipping carrier, so if eBay wants to implement a policy in general that adds up to my refusing to buy from 25% of the sellers, so be it. If eBay wanted to encourage sales to the Canadian market, they'd strongly advise U.S. sellers to offer the cheapest and easiest shipping method to attract business. But, if seller want to take the easy road and use UPS, FedEx or refuses to opt out of GSP, it's their loss, not ours.

Perhaps the only truly vexing aspect is when I see an item that comes up used for a very good price, but can't buy it because of GSP, UPS or FedEx. That's a PITA for sure, and a shame. But, like I said, if eBay and some sellers don't want my money, then I'll certainly find someone in eBay who does, or increasingly keep making purchases outside eBay from stores and people who actually want me as a customer.

[sharkhark]

Thx  rock n roll for your sympathy. I rreally wishtthere was some way to get cancel this whole transaction. Ebay describes gsp as a smooth and fast delivery with full international tracking. But they take longer and don't give tracking. Tracking isn't an update at some unknown point in future. Tracking is watching your item and knowing when to expect it. Since its ebay doing this how does one complain. Sad that if sellers does this you can complain or file a claim. But when I called customer service and asked what do i do if ebay themselves lied & i don't get tracking? She said you can't do anything. What about an auction claiming quick delivery due to prepaid customs but lied. When I bid and won it said delivery by April 16th.Once I paid it changed to April 19th?When I follow tracking ebay finally gave it says cda post delivery it says expected April 16th? Can't file any complaints as it only let's me complain against seller. Want to definitely file a low rating for shipping but won't that penalize seller not ebay? Is it really sellers fault for opting in.  Wish I could just reject this whole sale and get money back and re-buy from a seller not using gsp but I can't reject the delivery.  Really unhappy with this experience. Slow shippingwhen rebay presented it as if by prepaying customs would lead to fast delivery.          

[rockandroll3000]

Yeah, sharkhawk . . . you hit on one of the key points (and it's not just in our opinions . . . it's fact)

Does GSP actually work better than the seller shipping directly via whatever carrier they use?

Forgive me if some of my info is off a bit, but with the GSP, U.S. sellers ship the item to the Pitney Bowes warehouse (Connecticut?), and then it's analyzed, prepared for customs, tax and duty are calculated for the destination country, all the extra charges tacked on, then it's sent on its way (and I think there's references to the item actually being repacked by PB as well). Presumably, tracking and speed of delivery is a key "feature" of the GSP. Basic logic would say there's no way it could possibly be faster than shipping direct because PB doesn't have a fleet of Learjets or private runways ready to deliver it to your front door at light speed. And, from what you said (and logic would also indicate), tracking is exactly the same as it would be using any carrier directly. PB uses UPS, FedEx or whatever, and that's where the tracking info is going to come from.

Bottom line . . . GSP either a scam or an incredibly bad case of misguided incompetence. The extra fees aren't a scam per se, but just with UPS and FedEx, the "illusion" of a cheaper initial shipping is. When I see $16.16 shipping via UPS for a guitar pedal versus $30.45 via USPS, it makes the buyer think it's a deal. That's the scam . . . suck the buyer into thinking the lower shipping price is truly cheaper, and leave that buyer twisting in the wind when UPS or FedEx tries to collect they're extras. As we both know, it's cheaper to use USPS, pay the tax and modest processing fee than use the other bandit companies. To me, that's the scam.

So . . . the GSP isn't cheaper, it doesn't offer superior tracking, it isn't faster, and it's designed to lure the buyer into thinking they getting a cheaper overall end-price . . . plain and simple. I don't think there's much more to be said. These are the facts, and they are undeniable. The question as to "why eBay would do this" is one I can only guess at, but I can only say the once buyers like yourself have been burned once they're never going to make purchases from sellers who use the GSP again (just as with UPS and FedEx). You'd have to think someone is making more money along the line because it the real world, money is what motivates almost every policy (even if it's to collect an extra few bucks from you once and then lose your business from then on). That's the part that doesn't make sense to me . . . even eBay are business people, and in the boardrooms they know full well non-U.S. buyers are going to refuse to purchase via GSP once they've been burned.

It's a stupid plan, but all I can say is that as the buyers, we hold the hammer. We can refuse to buy items are shipped via GSP, UPS or FedEx, and even if it's a drop in the bucket to some sellers, sales is ultimately what drives their businesses.

I simply ignore any item that has this in the listing, the same way I ignore any seller who ships via UPS or FedEx:

"Customs services and international tracking provided"

It's just another potential purchase to cross of the list, but it is indeed hard to believe someone with half a brain would think of another spiffy way to alienate their lifeblood . . . the buyers.

BTW--if these weren't the actually facts about GSP, I don't think any sane person would believe it if you told them. Next thing, eBay is going to be telling us the sky is purple.

[rockandroll3000]

BTW, sharkhawk . . .

I'm going to buy another guitar pedal in the next day or two.

The cheapest one is from a U.S seller who uses GSP. The price is $66.52 + $11.75 shipping via the GSP. That's $78.27 total. Obviously, I'm not going to bite.

The seller I'm going to buy from is in the UK, and the price for the same pedal is $79.92 + $5.31 via Royal Mail Airmail (Small Packets) for a total of $85.23.

For an extra $7.00, avoiding GSP, UPS or FedEx is a steal! With GSP, the total before tax (if any) is going to be at least $100 from the U.S GSP seller. I'd rather pay the $85.23 and avoid the nebulous sticker shock.

Plus, it's obvious the UK seller wants my business by keeping the "true shipping cost" cheap. Maybe he makes an extra $5.00 on the pedal. Cool with me.

Cripes. . . that guy even offers free shipping if you buy two (or another similar item at the same time). I'd rather deal with a seller who knows I'll come back for more if the shipping and total cost is fair, rather than someone who dumps the dogs from UPS or FedEx at my door.

[i*m-still-here]

BTW, sharkhawk . . .

The cheapest one is from a U.S seller who uses GSP. The price is $66.52 + $11.75 shipping via the GSP. That's $78.27 total. Obviously, I'm not going to bite.

I don't think that's possible.  If the item price is $66.52 the total can't be $78.27 if shipped via the GSP.

I has to be much higher.

[i*m-still-here]

What made it worse was the promise of global international tracking. 

I got nothing. 

That's Odd ............. isn't it?

Pitney-Bowes is selling a shipping method which comes with real tracking, isn't it?

Isn't that what buyers are paying for?  Part of the deal?

Are buyers are paying for an upgraded method of shipping and getting promised the service that goes with it................. including real tracking from scan point to scan point...........

BUT items are actually getting shipped via  less expensvie method while P-B pockets the spare change?

It's possible.

[rockandroll3000]

I don't think that's possible.  If the item price is $66.52 the total can't be $78.27 if shipped via the GSP.

I has to be much higher.

Thanks for coming back to the topic! I came across a few of your posts in this thread while trying to gather more info, but here's the scoop with the $66.52 + $11.75 item (I'll use U.S. dollars for this one so we don't have to deal with the exchange rate).

I was citing that example before extra fees were levied/added/included because I didn't buy the item. I could only see what was on the listing. So the CDN $66.52 item is US $64.90 + US $12.50 shipping before extra fees.

I went to Buy It Now to see what the next screen said before I confirmed the purchase (which I didn't, of course).

Price: US $64.90 (Approximately C $66.52)

Shipping: To Canada -- US $12.50 -- Expedited Shipping (International Priority Shipping)

Import charges: US $11.52 (amount confirmed at checkout)

That's US $64.90 + US $12.50 + US $11.52 = $88.92

Regarding the exact same item from the UK seller:

Price: GBP 50.99 (Approximately C $79.92)

Shipping: GBP 3.39 (approx. C $5.31)

That's CDN $79.92 + CDN $5.31 = CDN $85.23 + take your chances with Canada Post charging tax and the $10.00 processing fee. If Canada Post levied the 5% BC GST + 7% PST + $10.00 "collection fee" that could bring the total price from the UK seller to about CDN $105.00

So . . . to be totally fair and objective, it could be that the item from the U.S. seller is quite a bit cheaper (mostly because the initial price of the item was considerably less than the UK seller). For this item, it would appear it would be a much better deal using the U.S. GSP seller, but ONLY IF the taxes are included in the GSP total.

Obviously, the thing that gives me pause (partly because others have reported not knowing the actual Import Charges and Extra Fees until they buy the item and go to checkout) is the proviso:

Import charges: US $11.52 (amount confirmed at checkout)

"Amount confirmed at checkout" isn't an evil statement in and of itself, because also out of fairness, you never know what the final tally will be when using UPS or FedEx (although, you can call either of them, give them the purchase details, and they'll tell you what your fees, tax and total cost will be). But still . . . without knowing, or being able to guess, what that "confirmed amount" will be, I'm in the dark as to comparison shopping

But, to add even more complications, a BIN US $349 used microphone just showed up on my Saved Searches from a U.S. GSP seller (that's a pretty good deal for a mike that used to retail for $600 or so).

I went to Buy It Now and did a test. Here's what came out:

Price: US $349.00

International Priority Shipping - US $54.79 / Includes international tracking / Est. delivery between Wed. 1 May. - Fri. 10 May.

Import charges: $47.28 / No additional import charges at delivery

That's US $349.00 + US $54.79 + US $47.28 = US $451.07 total

Notice it said "No additional import charges at delivery".

I have no idea exactly what that means. I'm assuming it includes all taxes and all the fess, but TTYTT, I'm not 100% certain (all it says is "import charges" for both the GSP listings I described here). But, that's a huge assumption, and nowhere that I can find does eBay say in ironclad plain English that all taxes, duties, fees and whatevers are included.

Anyway . . . to sum up so far:

At the very least, I can safely say the GSP is extremely nebulous, and I'm not sure what I'll be charged until I actually buy the item.

At the very best, I could assume the GSP program is accurate and what's listed as a final total is exactly what I'll pay (assuming I don't see one of those "amount confirmed at checkout" provisos).

At worst, I could get dinged with a pile of extra fees that aren't made clear upon purchase or at time of shipping, and I can't even be 100% certain tax is included in the GSP tally.

Sigh . . .