Getting a refund for Pitney Bowes fees?

[tcsmith315]

I've seen some chatter about Pitney Bowes fees,

I've purchase a few items from the US recently, and noticed this extra "pitney bowes" fee being added. It seems that this is to cover import duties/processing.

In my case, I purchased a used item from the US for shipping to Canada. There is no  tax on the purchase of used items in Canada, and due to free trade agreements between Canada and US, there are no import levies imposed on such items. Therefore, there is no "service"  required by anyone to handle importing.

So, I'm left wondering -- why am I getting this fee charged?

Anyone else have experience with this issue when purchasing US items on eBay from Canada?

[pierrelebel]

"There is no  tax on the purchase of used items in Canada, "

You have been misinformed.

There is tax in Canada on used goods.  Go to a used car dealer and tax will be charged, go to Value Village or other used goods stores and tax will be charged.

In any case, the Pitney Bowes charge is "import charge" (not specifically for tax and duty) and is NOT refundable.

[tcsmith315]

Well,  I didn't purchase a car 😉 ... false equivalency (aka "Apples and oranges" comparison)

Used good, when resold by a business, are in fact taxable. Used good purchased from an individual, who is not a business, are not. Take a look at your personal tax forms, show me where there is a spot for indicating what portion of your income was collected as tax. Or even better, phone up CRS and say thay you recently sold an old pair of shoes for $2, and you want to know the process to remit the tax.

[tcsmith315]

The extent of this problem is quite significant.

The seller received $25 for shipping, but eBay charged me $61 and change. Wow, just wow. More people should be made aware of this.

[pierrelebel]

"Used good purchased from an individual, who is not a business, are not."

Please contact your Member of Parliament.  They make the tax rules.

Used goods are taxable in Canada just like new goods.  When importing goods, it does not matter if goods are used or new.  The tax rate is based on your province of residence.

From the Government of Canada webpage:  http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/postal-postale/duty-droits-eng.html

You do not see an exemption for "used" goods because none exists.

[tcsmith315]

Do you have any affiliation with eBay? Are you a contracted by them? I think people on here might be suspicious 😉 I haven't looked through your past postings -- but are they all defending or pro eBay?

Again, call up CRA, and ask how to remit the tax on a $2 pair of used running shoes that you, as an individual non-business, sold to another individual. This must be the same process eBay Pitney bowes is undertaking... so it must exist, right?

Out of curiosity, what evidence do we have that any tax was remitted by eBay or Pitney Bowes? Where can I get this confirmation.

But, I hope this thread does it's job and informs other Canadians about these fees - and "what" they are "supposedly" for - so that consumers can instead take their business to alternative markets (eBay competitors)

[pierrelebel]

"call up CRA, and ask how to remit the tax on a $2 pair of used running shoes that you, as an individual non-business, sold to another individual. "

You do not seem to understand that your eBay transaction was not a $2 pair of used socks.

It was an import - worth more than Cdn$ 20 - from outside the country and is governed by the appropriate laws.

The government agency to call is this instance is Canada Border Services Agency, not CRA. Please go ahead and ask them.

Within Canada, only GST/HST registered merchants are allowed to charge GST/HST (on used and new goods). 

When importing from outside the country, the responsibility to apply and collect taxes is handled by CBSA.

"Out of curiosity, what evidence do we have that any tax was remitted by eBay or Pitney Bowes?" I do not nor do I care. Let CBSA collect the duty (when applicable) and taxes from them or their agents.

The same applies to any retailer in Canada where you pay tax.  How do you know they remitted it?  Nobody really knows but the tax department.

[tcsmith315]

You used the used car example to argue that ALL used sales are taxable.... and I demonstrated with my example that this is not the case... and you now admit exceptions  (and that you also bring in another false equivalency argument)

Since eBay is collecting fees that are coming into question by their customers  - and you now admit that not all used goods are taxable - I think it's a fair question to see some evidence of what is remitted. This isn't my local canadian retailer... but a company who's supposedly providing the "service" of collecting taxes.

Please keep responding - I think it's important to keep this thread at the top of the page.

PS: Hmm, notice you didn't answer the "work for eBay" question.

[pierrelebel]

"Please keep responding - "

I am sorry.  I am here to help members wanting help, not to argue on small technicalities.

As stated, in your case, you imported used goods valued over $20 and, as such, they are taxable contrary to your original post.  Your $2 pair of socks has nothing to do with the question you first raised.

-- 30 --

[tcsmith315]

Details about the "collection service" eBay is providing are important to some.

Continue on good sir. You provide an invaluable service; to eBay. 

Now, it seems I need to find the part of my income tax form where I need to claim tax remittance for any used goods I sold. Maybe even police my neighbourhood identify any yard sales that are not adding tax to their prices.

[femmefan1946]

Lex minimis non curat .

[00nevermind00]

---

@tcsmith315 wrote:

Do you have any affiliation with eBay? Are you a contracted by them? I think people on here might be suspicious 😉 I haven't looked through your past postings -- but are they all defending or pro eBay?

 

---

Anyone affiliated with eBay who posts to these boards will have their post surrounded by a blue border to make them readily identifiable.

The answer that Pierre gave you is not the one you wanted to hear: that doesn't mean he works for eBay. He is "only" one of the most knowledgeable posters on these boards.

Say you purchase a $100 item from a private US seller getting rid of stuff they no longer want or need, you may be taxed on it if it comes by mail, and you will be taxed on it if it comes by any other means (UPS, Fedex, GSP...)  Whether it was purchased from an individual cleaning out his/her attic or from a big corporation doesn't make any difference.

---

@tcsmith315 wrote:

Out of curiosity, what evidence do we have that any tax was remitted by eBay or Pitney Bowes? Where can I get this confirmation.

---

We don't have any evidence that they do, but we don't have any evidence that they don't either. Why would a large corporation such as Pitney Bowes nickel-and-dime the Canadian government out of some tax revenue? What could they possibly gain from doing this?

The GSP is a poorly designed, badly flawed, badly implemented turkey of a program, but it is not a racket and it is not a scam. The good news is that you can easily avoid buying GSP items. Use a computer (not a phone) to browse eBay, and use List View (not Gallery View) to search for items. When you do this, all GSP items will be identified by a pale grey blurb which reads: "Customs services and international tracking provided". When you see that blurb, simply ignore the item and move on to the next one.

[billybishop72]

The 'scam/racket' part of the GSP is that Pitney Bowes often repackages your item. All your effort in carefully packaging an item is wasted when they throw out your packaging and materials and placing your item it in a smaller, lighter box to reduce their cost...even though a buyer paid shipping fees  in advance. And how did Pitney Bowes get permission to 'open your mail'. I wonder how many items have been damaged or have going 'missing' because of this practice? How difficult is it to get a refund?

Another thing....During the check-out, buyers are quoted an importation charge (which covers duties, etc.) and a shipping or transportation charge. Yes, I know you can take it or leave it. But how do we know what the real charge is? I'll bet that it's lower than the quote. PB may not be a scam...but it sure acts like one...

[marnotom!]

---

@billybishop72 wrote:

The 'scam/racket' part of the GSP is that Pitney Bowes often repackages your item. All your effort in carefully packaging an item is wasted when they throw out your packaging and materials and placing your item it in a smaller, lighter box to reduce their cost...even though a buyer paid shipping fees  in advance.

---

Pitney Bowes may often repackage your items, but while they opened the two packages containing mobile phones that I purchased, I didn't see any evidence of repackaging.

My wife once bought eight or so CDs from a single seller on eBay.  Reluctantly, she agreed to his decision to use the GSP.  For whatever reason, besides wrapping them in bubble wrap he put them in a box filled with foam peanuts.  Or at least, I assume he did.  That's how the package reached her.  Nothing appeared to be removed despite the fact that the packaging was overkill.

---

@billybishop72 wrote:

And how did Pitney Bowes get permission to 'open your mail'. I wonder how many items have been damaged or have going 'missing' because of this practice?

---

If you purchase an item forwarded through the GSP,  you've agreed to the terms and conditions which are linked on the listing page, even on a mobile phone listing page.  Those terms and conditions state that "Pitney Bowes is authorized to open and inspect any GSP item without notice."

You asked.

---

@billybishop72 wrote:

Another thing....During the check-out, buyers are quoted an importation charge (which covers duties, etc.) and a shipping or transportation charge. Yes, I know you can take it or leave it. But how do we know what the real charge is? I'll bet that it's lower than the quote. PB may not be a scam...but it sure acts like one...

---

Last I checked, Pitney Bowes was a business and not a charity.  It's not going to provide its services at or below cost if it can help it.  How is that a scam?

[billybishop72]

I didn't call it a scam. I'm sure it's a very profitable business....that is foisted on both buyer and seller alike. Just another example of a shrewd operator coming up with a scheme to skim the proceeds of a sale....

[marnotom!]

---

@billybishop72 wrote:

I didn't call it a scam. I'm sure it's a very profitable business....that is foisted on both buyer and seller alike. Just another example of a shrewd operator coming up with a scheme to skim the proceeds of a sale....

---

While there's no doubt a fair bit of mark-up on the Global Shipping Program's freight charges from Kentucky to the receiving hub in Canada, keep in mind that there's a separate carrier for the leg of a GSP item's transit within Canada.  I've mentioned elsewhere that the GSP isn't a letter mail forwarding service.  Canada Post has a monopoly on the transport of conventional letter mail in this country.  When the GSP "bot" calculates how much to charge for shipping an item from Kentucky to Canada, there's probably no way for it to "know" what carrier is going to be contracted by the logistics firm that handles the item once it reaches Canadian soil, so it has to charge courier rates.  Those rates are likely discounted, but they're still not letter mail rates.

In other words, Pitney Bowes' "skim" probably isn't as huge as it seems as a good chunk of the GSP's shipping charge is likely going to the Canadian carrier, be it a courier of sorts or Canada Post.

And I doubt there's much for Pitney Bowes to "skim" from the import charges for a properly listed GSP item.  Name any other carrier who can clear an item from the United States through customs for less than C$9.95.

This isn't an endorsement of the GSP.  Just trying to call things as they are.  Yes, the GSP can add a lot of dinero to the cost of an item purchased on eBay, but I don't think we can completely blame Pitney Bowes for all those "extra" charges.