I need to vent!!

[nancyschina]

I have been on ebay for over 8 years and have cashed more than 2000 US money orders in that time ... this has never happened to me ....
I sold a figurine to a customer who didn't wait for the invoice (which was sent 1 1/2 hours after the auction ended) and shorted the payment by $7 US. He emailed me to say he sent a money order and figured the shipping cost on his own???? I emailed him to say he should send the $7. I received the initial payment by money order and emailed him to say I would ship the figurine as I was sure the $7 was already in the mail. The day he got the figurine, I had a debit to my US account in the amount of the shorted payment. I tried to call but his number was disconnected so I reported that to ebay and then emailed him. I waited half a day and then I decided to file a dispute. He replied to the dispute by claimiing over and over that "I believe it cleared" ... "to my knowledge it cleared" etc etc. I told him I would email him when I got the money order back in the mail. Today I receive the money order and on the document stating reason for debiting my account it says "Payment Stopped"
I believe that when I initially emailed him to tell him he owed another $7 he decided to cancel the transaction and stopped payment on the money order he had already mailed. BUT HE DID NOT LET ME KNOW THIS!!! So all of his claims that the money order cleared, were lies.
I just emailed him a scan of the money order and accompanying document as well as giving all information in the dispute.
I have my fingers crossed that he will do the right thing but he has been childish up to now so I am probably out over $330 US.

[katiusciav]

that's terrible man. sorry nancy, it doesn't sound like an idiot to me, but someone who knows exactly what they're doing. there's alot of scams going around that are very similar, and not always involving ebay.
at the risk of sounding like a dummy, i'm going to ask a question that maybe i should know the answer to...if you can prove delivery AND the mo was stop paid, wouldn't you win?
btw...what's his feedback like?

[nancyschina]

Hi Kat;
Win what? Is there some way I can recoup the funds through ebay? I have never been in this situation before ...

[katiusciav]

well..couldn't you open a dispute claiming non payment??? since he put a stop pay on the money order? it's never happened to me before, but i'm sure there SOME protection for sellers SOMEWHERE out there?
actually, i guess you would have to do something via ebay, as paypal disputes for sellers dont' even exist...
i hope someone else can jump in and give you much needed information to help you...if not, emailing ebay should get you some good answers...
i really hope you get your money back...

[tobyshitzu]

There is no protection from ebay, it would be up to the seller to pursue a civil or criminal action. The "best" ebay could do was naru the id.

[zarzuella]

What has Paypal to do with this?
Nancyschina, sounds like you have been the victim of a scam.
Report the fraud - Here's a start:

http://crs.ebay.com/aw-cgi/ebayisapi.dll?crsstartpage

http://www.ic3.gov/


Don't forget that this is also postal fraud, something the USPS takes very seriously.
http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/MailFraudComplaint.htm

Be sure to email this jerk and let him know exactly what you are doing.
Good luck!

Ann

[nancyschina]

Ann;
Thank you for the links. I have emailed him the scan of the check and documents and he says he is going to contact his bank. If I don't hear anything positive by later today I will report him.
He is putting on an innocent act but I am pretty sure he put a stop payment on the money order. But I will give him the benefit of the doubt that it may have been a bank error ... I will wait a few more hours to hear back from him.

[nancyschina]

Ann;
The link to Online Fraud Complaint Reporting Form is for buyers who were defrauded, not sellers.

[jakeeangel]

He's playing you for an idiot. Don't fall for it.

Nancy, the links are for people that have been scammed on the internet. People who have lost money. It's not only for people who were buyers.

Kat, sorry but I have to laugh. Where on earth do you get that eBay would reimburse you for buyers not paying you or using fake money orders or stopping payments on money orders? That's hysterically funny! They don't do diddly squat for sellers who've been scammed. You're lucky if you can get your FVF back from them nevermind payment or reimbursement for the item itself. Rose colored glasses huh? 😉 :^O

Which actually makes me think of another point. How exactly does one stop payment on a money order? I didn't think that was possible? I've asked at my bank and they said no. I've read on the boards where buyers have paid scammers only to be told to try to stop payment and they couldn't. How could this guy have done that?

---

[katiusciav]

:^O i told you i was going to ask at the risk of looking like a dummy!! :^O
rose coloured glasses? yup.

[nancyschina]

Well, an update. He is now saying he will send payment "when I am ready" and that I should not contact him anymore!!! This is his last response on the Dispute console ... I replied saying payment is past due and must be made immediately or I will be forced to contact the FBI and the USPS regarding the fraud he has committed.

[zarzuella]

If he has accepted shipment of the goods and then placed a stop payment on the so-called money order, he has committed an offence.

Go get 'im.

[whoscloset]

Where is he located?

I had someone do a PP chargeback on a $200 purchase once. I called the police in their area and demanded they pursue this as a fraud case. In the very least I wanted them to pay this person a visit and explain that they had committed a crime.

They argued with me for 1/2 and hour about how it was civil not criminal. Then I said the magic words..."Okay, I guess I will have to contact the local District Attorney's Office directly."

They sent someone out immediately and the person paid up.

Can't guarantee it will happen or help but it can be worth a try.

[nancyschina]

Hi Monique;
He is in Florida ... Hollywood Florida. Thanks for the idea. His response on the Dispute console to my saying he needs to pay or I will contact the USPS and the FBI was .... Good Luck!!!!
He is an a-hole ... I will wait a few days until I calm down and early next week I will start to go after him officially.

[tea_past_times]

Definitely something to be said for being a Paypal only seller, eh??

[zarzuella]

Useful post, tea.

[futuretech_liquidations]

nancychina - Concentrate on the USP MAIL FRAUD REPORT as link others have pointed out to you - the USPS takes this offence very seriously and they WILL investigate but depends on the dollar amount and also how many reports they may have about this person - checkout the users feedbacks and see if he/she has done the same to others, if you do find some then contact them and form an alliance to get mutliple reports filed with USPS agaisnt him/her - like this it should raise some RED FLAGS and get quicker results (hopefully).

Good Luck!

TIM @ FTL

PS -> Like in mentioned in one of my past posts about FAKE MONEY ORDERS being a favorite item used by scammers. Others were quick to point out that I was over-stating my warnings about accepting money orders in general for pricey items - I guess nancychine would agree that they do exist.

[nancyschina]

Hi Tim;
He actually has excellent feedback and buys in the category that I sold to him. It was not a fake money order as far as I can tell ... but somehow it had a stop payment order. Now he is just being a royal jerk. I actually think he will pay but now he just wants to f--k with me for a while. I am not going to do anything for a few days and see if he makes good on the payment. I have already written to Trust & Safety and have opened a dispute. His responses in the dispute are childish and he has already hung himself there. The last post he made to the dispute says he will pay when he is good and ready!! I will contact the USPS next week if I don't get payment.

[nancyschina]

An update ... The culprit has been silent since Friday when he wished my luck collecting the money from him. Today I added to the dispute that I had still not received payment and his response was to leave him alone. So I filed for credit, filed a complaint with the USPS and the ICC. Now I am trying to compose appropriate feedback for someone who would cancel a money order once they knew with item was on its way. He has been rude, childish, and most of all he has committed fraud. Here is the entire dispute: You have to read it from the bottom up as they are posted in reverse order with the newest response at the top .... I have had to *** the buyers name ...

eBay May-15-07 at 10:32:42 PDT
The Unpaid Item dispute has been closed for the following reason: The seller has ended this communication and filed for a Final Value Fee credit.

nancyschina May-15-07 at 10:32:41 PDT
The buyer has the item and cancelled his payment ... he is refusing to pay for the item. I have filed
complaints with the USPS and the ICCC ... he has committed fraud.

b******* May-15-07 at 10:26:00 PDT
GOOD LUCK.

nancyschina May-15-07 at 09:51:35 PDT
I thought you would do the RIGHT thing.

b******* May-15-07 at 07:11:08 PDT
I THOUGHT I WASNT GOING TO HEAR FROM YOU ANYMORE.

nancyschina May-15-07 at 05:42:40 PDT
It is Tuesday May 15th ... still waiting for payment!!!

b******* May-10-07 at 15:24:13 PDT
GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nancyschina May-10-07 at 11:32:54 PDT
This is not how business is conducted ... payment is way past due and your are in arrears to the
amount of $334.01 US. Please do not force me to contact the FBI and the USPS regarding the fraud you
have committed. Payment is to be made immediately.

b******* May-10-07 at 11:29:19 PDT
I will send you the check when I am ready to. Do not contact me anymore.

nancyschina May-10-07 at 11:19:39 PDT
You have had a few hours now to contact your bank ... I have proof that you have received the figurine
via delivery confirmation on the Canada Post website. I also have the money order and documents to
show that you Stopped Payment. Please make payment via Paypal ASAP.

nancyschina May-10-07 at 09:23:33 PDT
Thank you Ben ... please let me know what they say as I am anxious to have payment for this item.

b******* May-10-07 at 09:21:15 PDT
THANK YOU, ILL CONTACT MY BANK.

nancyschina May-10-07 at 09:15:12 PDT
I have resent it in 3 different sizes ...

b******* May-10-07 at 09:06:00 PDT
IMAGE OF THE CHECK IS TOO SMALL. NEED TO SEND A LARGER IMAGE BECAUSE I CANT READ IT. THANKS,
BEN

nancyschina May-10-07 at 08:39:29 PDT
I resent the scan and also a link to where you can see it on my web provider.

b******* May-10-07 at 08:16:56 PDT
Please send the scanned check again, I couldnt pick it up on my computer. Thanks, Ben

nancyschina May-10-07 at 07:37:28 PDT
Ben;
I have the check now ... the attached document indicating reason for return states: Payment
Stopped. I have emailed you a scan of this to your email address. Please make good the amount owing
of $334.01 so we can close this dispute to the satisfaction of both of us.
Nancy

b******* May-09-07 at 16:34:02 PDT
THANKS, LET ME KNOW.

nancyschina May-09-07 at 08:36:16 PDT
Just to update this dispute ... it is now Wednesday and I have not received the check yet from the
clearing center however my account is still debited the $327.01. I see that you received the figurine
though ... so now you have the figurine and I do not have the money. I will update again when I get
the check so I can let you know why it did not clear.

b******* May-07-07 at 12:39:29 PDT
LET ME KNOW WHAT HAPPENS.

nancyschina May-07-07 at 11:49:27 PDT
I took it to the bank last Monday when I received it. They sent it to the clearing center. They have
sent it back and that means that they could not clear it ... I will have more specific information
when I get the money order back from the clearing center. Meanwhile, the money has been debited from
my account.

b******* May-07-07 at 11:30:14 PDT
I CANT FIGURE OUT WHY YOU ARE HAVING SOMUCH TROUBLE CASHING THE MONEY ORDER AT YOUR BANK.

b******* May-07-07 at 11:24:52 PDT
THAT SOUNDS FINE.

nancyschina May-07-07 at 10:42:32 PDT
I just spoke to may bank AGAIN. The check has been returned from the clearing center to me. Over the
next few days the money will be going back into your account and I will still be out the $$. So lets
both wait patiently for me to get the check (I seem to recall it was a money order) and by then you
will see the money back in your account. Then we can renew this discussion.

b******* May-07-07 at 10:37:15 PDT
THE BANK SAID IT CLEARED.

b******* May-07-07 at 10:35:35 PDT
I CALLED THE BANK AND THEY INFORMED ME IT HAS CLEARED.

nancyschina May-07-07 at 10:32:37 PDT
I will have it in a few days ... they are mailing it to me ... if it cleared ... it would be at your
end not mine ... it will be stamped with the information as to what happened ... please contact your
bank to see that it did not clear. Then we can end this silly back and forth nonsense.

b******* May-07-07 at 10:30:22 PDT
I HAVE NO IDEA. WHY DONT YOU ASK YOUR BANK?????

nancyschina May-07-07 at 10:27:36 PDT
Then why was it returned and my account debited??

b******* May-07-07 at 10:27:16 PDT
I BELIVE IT CLEARED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

b******* May-07-07 at 10:26:12 PDT
THE MONEY ORDER CLEARED.

b******* May-07-07 at 10:25:19 PDT
I BELIEVE IT CLEARED.

b******* May-07-07 at 10:24:56 PDT
I BELIEVE IT CLEARED.

nancyschina May-07-07 at 10:23:42 PDT
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE >>> see the email I sent to you with the portion from my bank clearly stating
IT DID NOT CLEAR .... my account was debited $327.01 ... IT DID NOT CLEAR. What kind person are you??
I am 58 years old and on disability. I am trying to pay my bills by selling a few items on ebay.
And you are causing me to lose $327.01 ... what kind of person are you???

b******* May-07-07 at 10:20:37 PDT
I BELIEVE IT CLEARED.

nancyschina May-07-07 at 10:19:34 PDT
You are just repeating yourself ... that will not make it true ... contact your bank ... IT DID NOT
CLEAR

b******* May-07-07 at 10:18:25 PDT
AS FAR AS I KNOW, THE MONEY ORDER CLEARED.

nancyschina May-07-07 at 10:10:11 PDT
But the money order DID NOT CLEAR ... contact your bank .... it has been returned to me ... IT DID
NOT CLEAR. In a few days I will have it but it is right now being mailed to me by my bank ... the
funds have been withdrawn from MY ACCOUNT ... IT DID NOT CLEAR. I will email you the portion of my
bank account that shows it was returned. I cannot place it here.

b******* May-07-07 at 10:02:55 PDT
I BELIEVE THE MONEY ORDER CLEARED.

b******* May-07-07 at 10:02:09 PDT
TO MY KINOWLEDGE, THE MONEY ORDER CLEARED.

b******* May-07-07 at 10:01:14 PDT
TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THE MONEY ORDER CLEARED.

b******* May-07-07 at 09:59:37 PDT
TO MY KNOWLEDGE THE MONEY WAS SENT.

nancyschina May-07-07 at 09:42:28 PDT
The only information I can get from my bank right now is that the check was returned .. so it either
bounced or had a stop payment on it .... in either case, a new payment is required. And the total
owing is $334.01 as explained to the buyer in previous emails to which he has not responded ... nor
has he responded to the email I sent to him earlier today.

nancyschina May-07-07 at 09:29:18 PDT
The check was cashed and has been returned to my bank ... and the funds have been withdrawn from my
account. I require a new payment .. preferrable by paypal. Ben, please either email me or call me
*** *** ****... your phone number as registered with ebay has been diconnected.

b******* May-07-07 at 09:15:01 PDT
I have already paid for this item using check or money order. Payment details are as follows:
Check number: 217470320
Amount: $327.01
Payee: NANCY GARSON
Payment date: Apr-27-2007
I don't know if this check has been cashed.

nancyschina May-07-07 at 09:07:19 PDT
Also, buyers phone number has been disconnected!!! So I cannot contact him.

nancyschina May-07-07 at 09:06:39 PDT
The item has been mailed but payment did not clear ...

eBay May-07-07 at 09:06:06 PDT
An Unpaid Item dispute has been opened for the following item: Swarovski Crystal 2004 SCS Annual ANNA Figurine (#330108907316)
Reason given for Unpaid Item: The buyer has not paid for the item.
Buyer actions reported by seller: The buyer's payment has not cleared.

[cgcgraded]

Hi Nancy. Any idea how you can stop payment on a money order?
I know some banks have trouble with some Money Orders unless they are identified as being International Money Orders. You sure it wasn't your own bank that decided not to accept it....
I understand the banks use a central clearing house to speed up the process of clearing checks and therefore only visually check somewhere in the range of 1 for every 50,000.
If it was your Bank, try re-depositing it. Might be worth a shot.
I wish you the best of luck.

Andrew