eBay

sylviebee · ‎05-07-2016

This is a question for those who have used the GSP. I'm hoping this doesn't get burned in the long threads at the top of this page because it's a little different and I'm hoping to get some FB from other buyers. (Lizzie please don't bury it.)

Recently numerous listings have appeared with no import charges even though item cost can be well over $20.

Has anyone actually had to pay import fees even though the listing says there are no added charges?

retroman_studios · ‎05-07-2016

Listings I have purchased always had import charges. However, on some listings there are glitches with the eBay system and it may say none but when you go to checkout it may do a final calculation. If it's a BIN you can check for import charges by adding to your cart and proceed to checkout but not finalizing a sale. I do this for lots of items.

However, if there is a mistake and they don't charge you import fees that will not be your issue as eBay PBI is responsible. If you do get charged you can open a case and get those fees refunded. It happens now and then. Although from what limited info I have, PBI, acting as broker would pay all fees for you when it crosses the border.

I had a purchase about a year ago where PBI didn't fill out the forms properly and customs seized the iPhone I bought. Had to open a case on PayPal and get PBI to refund me, not the seller. One important thing I did through that situation was communicated with the seller so she understood she had made no mistake and I was forcing PBI to cough up restitution.

marnotom! · ‎05-07-2016

@nvigate.systems wrote:

Listings I have purchased always had import charges. However, on some listings there are glitches with the eBay system and it may say none but when you go to checkout it may do a final calculation. If it's a BIN you can check for import charges by adding to your cart and proceed to checkout but not finalizing a sale. I do this for lots of items.

Interesting. What happens when you do that for this item?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/282003874152

For me (in BC), shipping charges of US$20.79 showed up on the listing page, but no "import charges". When I started going through Checkout, the shipping price went up to US$21.93, but the "import charges" remained at zero.

pjcdn2005 · ‎05-07-2016

I haven't used the gsp lately but I've experimented quite a bit and have not had any charges added on when I've put a gsp item in my cart or when I've gone to "pretend" checkout.

I think they are just setting up some of the listings differently, I really don't think the plan is for them to add anything on.

pjcdn2005 · ‎05-08-2016

@marnotom! wrote:
@nvigate.systems wrote:

Listings I have purchased always had import charges. However, on some listings there are glitches with the eBay system and it may say none but when you go to checkout it may do a final calculation. If it's a BIN you can check for import charges by adding to your cart and proceed to checkout but not finalizing a sale. I do this for lots of items.

Interesting. What happens when you do that for this item?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/282003874152

For me (in BC), shipping charges of US$20.79 showed up on the listing page, but no "import charges". When I started going through Checkout, the shipping price went up to US$21.93, but the "import charges" remained at zero.

When I went to checkout with that item, import charges stayed at 0 and shipping was $20.79

retroman_studios · ‎05-08-2016

Looks like all iPhone listing for that seller have no import fees. I see other sellers, same thing.

I wonder if certain products are exempt or they listed it differently. I wouldn't know as I don't sell on dot-com and do not use GSP. It would be interesting to see as when I do list there is a section that states Country of Manufacture and eBay blurb mentioned something about facilitating customs. I'll look later.

sylviebee · ‎05-08-2016

I'm about to bid on an item showing no import fees and I don't want surprises at checkout.

Even though I've completed several BIN GSP purchases that were true to their word with no import fees added at checkout, I still don't trust what I'm seeing.

Recently, someone correctly pointed out that the GSP/P.B. is legally bound to collect import fees for all items over C$20.

Not remitting taxes for these items simply doesn't add up.

Yet, these listings continue to multiply.

In any case, I'll place my bid and thank you for the input.

reid4311 · ‎05-08-2016

Have you ever considered asking the seller if they'd be willing to remove the GSP and post it via regular mail? Since foreign sellers can't see the listing with GSP added many have no idea of the rate and that they've even been opted in!

I ask politely if they'd consider removing the GSP. Always state where you live (province) and what the rate is you're seeing in Canadian dollars. Many sellers are taken aback by the rate and about 90% are only too happy to comply. If they aren't you can still purchase it.

sylviebee · ‎05-08-2016

@reid4311 wrote:
Have you ever considered asking the seller if they'd be willing to remove the GSP and post it via regular mail?

Yes, I do that when it fits.

However, First Class International shipping went up at about the same time these illogical GSP listings started to appear.

Now the shipping prices for many of the items I buy are only about a dollar to two over FCI prices.

As such, it's not worth the effort it takes to arrange normal shipping.

When the GSP also removes import fees it starts to be a more reasonable option.

femmefan1946 · ‎05-08-2016

Looks like all iPhone listing for that seller have no import fees. I see other sellers, same thing.

I wonder if certain products are exempt or they listed it differently.

I've seen something about cellphones being exempt from duty (but not from sales taxes or service fees).

If they are it's here I suppose.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/tariff-tarif/2014/html/00/ch85-eng.html

There are over 900 categories and I am not going to look further.

marnotom! · ‎05-08-2016

@nvigate.systems wrote:

Looks like all iPhone listing for that seller have no import fees. I see other sellers, same thing.

I wonder if certain products are exempt or they listed it differently. I wouldn't know as I don't sell on dot-com and do not use GSP. It would be interesting to see as when I do list there is a section that states Country of Manufacture and eBay blurb mentioned something about facilitating customs. I'll look later.

I've purchased two smartphones on eBay in the past couple of years. Both sellers shipped through the GSP. These phones were easily twice the price of the iPhone listing to which I linked and the shipping prices were roughly half of the one in that listing. "Import charges" were a separate line item.

I think it's pretty reasonable to conclude that taxes and customs processing fees are being added to the shipping charge in GSP listings with no "import charges".

I suspect that in categories where there's a reasonable amount of uniformity in the size and weight of listed items, Pitney Bowes is more able to calculate an accurate shipping charge for these items and adjust its mark-up / contingency pad on shipping charges accordingly. They're now using this certainty to experiment with folding the "import charges" into the shipping charge.

marnotom! · ‎05-08-2016

@sylviebee wrote:

Recently, someone correctly pointed out that the GSP/P.B. is legally bound to collect import fees for all items over C$20.
Not remitting taxes for these items simply doesn't add up.

Yet, these listings continue to multiply.

Pitney Bowes actually doesn't collect taxes and duty from buyers using the GSP. Pitney Bowes acts as an agent for these buyers and pays those fees as "importer of record".

Buyers using the GSP are reimbursing Pitney Bowes for the taxes and duty that PB paid, plus various other fees. It doesn't matter if there are no "import charges" in the listing or not, Pitney Bowes is still getting something for its trouble and the feds are still getting their cut.

That's why buyers can't get a GSP receipt with GST/HST etc. listed as a line item on it. The buyers didn't pay the taxes; Pitney Bowes did!

sylviebee · ‎05-08-2016

@nvigate.systems wrote:

I wonder if certain products are exempt or they listed it differently.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems to be random. I've come across both new and used items being treated this way in many different categories.

As with the previous example I posted about in another thread (hair products), the shipping cost for this item isn't high enough to cover the import fees plus shipping.

In other words, they are not folding all costs into shipping and then pulling import fees out later because there are enough dollars to go around.

00nevermind00 · ‎05-08-2016

@marnotom! wrote:
I've purchased two smartphones on eBay in the past couple of years. Both sellers shipped through the GSP. These phones were easily twice the price of the iPhone listing to which I linked and the shipping prices were roughly half of the one in that listing. "Import charges" were a separate line item.

I think it's pretty reasonable to conclude that taxes and customs processing fees are being added to the shipping charge in GSP listings with no "import charges".

I suspect that in categories where there's a reasonable amount of uniformity in the size and weight of listed items, Pitney Bowes is more able to calculate an accurate shipping charge for these items and adjust its mark-up / contingency pad on shipping charges accordingly. They're now using this certainty to experiment with folding the "import charges" into the shipping charge.

That would make sense. When the GSP was first introduced, the PB "service" (!) charge was being folded into the "import charges", making it look like non-taxable items were being taxed. Following the (entirely predictable) uproar, the service charge was folded into the shipping charge, making the program less transparent.

It is possible that the Powers That Be decided to fold all of the import charges into the shipping charges for some items. I suspect that if this is indeed the case, it must be because the program is still widely unpopular with Canadians, even after all the tinkering that was done to it. Unpopular with Canadians, and also with UK eBayers because the same tinkering seems to be going on with UK shipping of GSP items.

I went "shopping" for a smart phone shipping with the GSP. I found one that sells for a little over $65. (Shipping to the US for this item is free, so all of the shipping charges showing are GSP charges.) "Import charges" to Canada: $0; shipping charges: $14.41.

Interestingly, in Marnotom's scenario, folding the "import charges" into the shipping removes PB's ability to charge HST/PST, etc. according to the buyer's province. I checked this by using two different postal codes in two different provinces with different tax rates. The amount charged for shipping didn't change.

I then changed my location to the UK: "Import charges": $0, shipping: $17.21.

Germany: "Import charges": $18.17; shipping: $11.12

France: "import charges": $18.21; shipping: $14.03

Netherlands: "import charges": $18.22; shipping: $14.26

I used various EU countries as a point of comparison with the UK. Since the UK is (at least for the time being!) also a EU country, the tax rate should be about the same as for other EU countries. Yet the numbers clearly don't add up.

The plot thickens...

sylviebee · ‎05-08-2016

@00nevermind00 wrote:
It is possible that the Powers That Be decided to fold all of the import charges into the shipping charges for some items.

That's what I thought in the beginning as well.

However, the problem with that reasoning for the items I'm looking at is that the shipping cost is too low to account for actual shipping + a handling fee, + import charges.

The numbers just don't add up.

Not only that, but as the item gets bid up shipping cost never changes and in many case it's the same across all Provinces and should vary.

marnotom! · ‎05-08-2016

@sylviebee wrote:

However, the problem with that reasoning for the items I'm looking at is that the shipping cost is too low to account for actual shipping + a handling fee, + import charges.

The numbers just don't add up.

Not only that, but as the item gets bid up shipping cost never changes and in many case it's the same across all Provinces and should vary.

I can get a 16 ounce bottle of my favourite liquid castile soap from my local supermarket for about C$14 right now. It comes from the United States (but some of its ingredients are from Canada, for what it's worth).

I'm looking at a GSP listing for that same soap where the item price is about C$32 at current exchange rates and the GSP shipping rate is about C$17.50. No "import charges" in this listing.

Remember, GSP items ship as freight from Kentucky to the Canadian receiving hub. If freight shipping cost as much as what the GSP was asking, I'd be paying a lot more than C$14 for that bottle of soap.

Yes, I agree that this doesn't explain why shipping charges don't change in these "import charge"-free listings when the auction format is used, but this seems to be an experiment and PB may be willing to take a few hits until they can come up with a formula that "gets it right" for them.

00nevermind00 · ‎05-08-2016

@sylviebee wrote:
@00nevermind00 wrote:
It is possible that the Powers That Be decided to fold all of the import charges into the shipping charges for some items.
That's what I thought in the beginning as well.

However, the problem with that reasoning for the items I'm looking at is that the shipping cost is too low to account for actual shipping + a handling fee, + import charges.

The numbers just don't add up.

Not only that, but as the item gets bid up shipping cost never changes and in many case it's the same across all Provinces and should vary.

If you read my entire post, you'll see that I came to the same conclusion after comparing the GSP fees for one item for a few different countries.

It would be nice if eBay didn't leave us completely in the dark about what they are doing. It makes an already unloved program look shady. I would bet money that there are buyers out there who, seeing 0 import charges on clearly taxable items, think that the charges will suddenly appear out of nowhere after they hit the Buy button. And who quickly hit the back button instead.

marnotom! · ‎05-08-2016

@sylviebee wrote:

Not only that, but as the item gets bid up shipping cost never changes and in many case it's the same across all Provinces and should vary.

Don't forget that when I started going through Checkout with that iPhone 4 that I found, the shipping price went up slightly. Perhaps purchasers of GSP items listed in auction format are getting some unpleasant surprises.

afantiques · ‎05-09-2016

I used various EU countries as a point of comparison with the UK. Since the UK is (at least for the time being!) also a EU country, the tax rate should be about the same as for other EU countries. Yet the numbers clearly don't add up.

This is very odd as all the EU imports are routed through Britain and are taxed on arrival at the British 20% VAT rate.

It is double strange that items destined for UK delivery should show no tax, and ones for Germany should show about the expected amount of tax.