Questions for eBay.ca Management about GSP

[pierrelebel]

On June 12th, the first post during the "Weekly Board Hour" read:

Good afternoon.

I would like to follow-up on the questions I raised last week about eBay’s Global Shipping Program (GSP).

As stated, eBay does not provide a breakdown of the so-called “import charges”.  Often, the number does not seem to make sense based on what buyers know about applicable taxes.

Why can’t eBay provide a detailed breakdown of those “estimated import charges”?  How much of it is actually calculated for duty (if applicable)?  For taxes (GST/HST/PST) if applicable? Handling fee?  Brokerage fee? Additional shipping charge (from PB distribution centre to buyer)? Etc…

Also, have you considered opening a discussion board manned by Pitney Bowes personnel to answer questions on their program?  This was done by eBay way back in 1999/2000 for PayPal well before eBay purchased the payment system. PayPal staff was allowed access to eBay’s board to answer technical and policy questions.

A question that keeps coming back is: how do Canadian buyers get their PB “import charges” refunded if the transaction is cancelled? The seller refunds the purchase price,  that is easy.  However, how do Canadian buyers get their money back from PB? Similar question: how do Canadian buyers get their duty and taxes refunded should the goods be returned to seller in the USA?

Post # 4 from eBay.ca: "These are all great questions for which I'll have to source answers from a colleague from the GSP team."

Post # 29 from eBay.ca: "I'm still waiting for an answer from my US colleague Pierre, I'll post the answers here when I have them and notify you via email."

When can we expect answers?

=============================================================

Then other questions were asked on post #22

"Another question, if I may, on the subject of GSP.

eBay staffers are also eBay buyers.

Have any of you in the Toronto office actually made an eBay purchase from American sellers offering GSP?

What was your experience? Was it faster? Was it more expensive? Was the cost of tax(es) properly broken down? Did Pitney Bowes provide you with their GST/HST or business registration number as required by Canadian law?

Finally, having gone through the experience, would you do it again?"

No reply.  Does it suggest nobody on staff at eBay.ca ever used GSP ? The silence speaks for itself.

[inuk_the_polar_bear]

You know darn well they are not going to reply to you when you are calling them out. GSP is a fail. The intent was good, however short sighted.

Suddenly, buyers around the world are paying duty and taxes they never had to pay as their government chose not to collect. eBay stepped in and decided they were a moralistic government agency that would do the right thing and collect all real and imaginary taxes.

Far too many American sellers charge:

- listed price

- inflated shipping with all sorts of seller safeguards because all int buyers are liars and thieves

- GSP because they have partaken of the koolaid that makes them believe charging extra taxes is better than not charging

Pierre, I had the chance to speak directly to ebay.ca management. They are on the same side of the fence as we are. This sort of thing has been rammed down their throats as well.

This whole scheme was dreamt up by the snot nosed pukes in San Jose who support USA isolationist policies. They have absolutely no concept that in their attempt to assist sellers, they have hurt them by alienating foreign markets.

I now look on eBay for a product, add all the real and imaginary charges, then shop at a local store where the final price of the product is lower. ebay.ca knows this, dot com does not.

[raphael@ebay.com]

On June 12th, the first post during the "Weekly Board Hour" read:

Good afternoon.

I would like to follow-up on the questions I raised last week about eBay’s Global Shipping Program (GSP).

As stated, eBay does not provide a breakdown of the so-called “import charges”.  Often, the number does not seem to make sense based on what buyers know about applicable taxes.

Why can’t eBay provide a detailed breakdown of those “estimated import charges”?  How much of it is actually calculated for duty (if applicable)?  For taxes (GST/HST/PST) if applicable? Handling fee?  Brokerage fee? Additional shipping charge (from PB distribution centre to buyer)? Etc…

Also, have you considered opening a discussion board manned by Pitney Bowes personnel to answer questions on their program?  This was done by eBay way back in 1999/2000 for PayPal well before eBay purchased the payment system. PayPal staff was allowed access to eBay’s board to answer technical and policy questions.

A question that keeps coming back is: how do Canadian buyers get their PB “import charges” refunded if the transaction is cancelled? The seller refunds the purchase price,  that is easy.  However, how do Canadian buyers get their money back from PB? Similar question: how do Canadian buyers get their duty and taxes refunded should the goods be returned to seller in the USA?

Post # 4 from eBay.ca: "These are all great questions for which I'll have to source answers from a colleague from the GSP team."

Post # 29 from eBay.ca: "I'm still waiting for an answer from my US colleague Pierre, I'll post the answers here when I have them and notify you via email."

When can we expect answers?

=============================================================

Then other questions were asked on post #22

"Another question, if I may, on the subject of GSP.

eBay staffers are also eBay buyers.

Have any of you in the Toronto office actually made an eBay purchase from American sellers offering GSP?

What was your experience? Was it faster? Was it more expensive? Was the cost of tax(es) properly broken down? Did Pitney Bowes provide you with their GST/HST or business registration number as required by Canadian law?

Finally, having gone through the experience, would you do it again?"

No reply.  Does it suggest nobody on staff at eBay.ca ever used GSP ? The silence speaks for itself.

Hi pierrelebel,

Pardon me for not having gotten to your last question yesterday. I personally haven't bought any items via GSP yet but plan to. I'll definitely share my experience when I do.

Regarding your other questions to which I promised you answers, I'm still waiting for the GSP team to get back to me on this, and will fill you in as promised when they do. For the record I don't know the answers to those questions, find them totally valid and am looking forward to know this information.

Thanks!

[pierrelebel]

A week later.... still no word from eBay. 😞

[chimera148]

Just be an obedient GSP participant and pay those bills.

[inuk_the_polar_bear]

eBay has really messed this up. Normally, I do not use the word incompetent.

Saw an American listing on dot com. widget was $7.75 plus $13 shipping. GSP was adding another $3.44.

$3.44 on $7.75 is 44%.

Things the federal and provincial governmeents won't even look at it because they are below the limits, eBay is taxing?

A "for profit" company in the USA is levying Cdn taxes and duties, well, illegally? There is a phrase for that: "No taxation without representation".

Blue People. Please explain why this is happening. Please tell me why eBay is collecting taxes the Canadian government does not collect.

[pierrelebel]

"GSP was adding another $3.44"

As indicated in several other posts, the $3.44 is not a tax, not duty, not remitted to the government, eBay or the seller. 

It is a minimum handling charge by Pitney Bowes.

[cumos55]

Several  comments and questions  about shipping  as indicated within GSP listings.

(1) Is it standard for sellers to offer free shipping within the US for GSP listed item?

(2) One then sees a cost for shipping to Canada listed as International Priority Shipping to Canada.

(3) If the item is mailed to Kentucky by the seller..  and shipping is free within the US .. why then is there a seller's shipping cost for an item that will eventually go to Canada?

(4) Who gets this amount for International Priority Shipping to Canada?  ...and based on this next comment it is the seller

About the GSP  and charges..... as indicated by eBay

http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/shipping-globally.html

When you pay for the item through PayPal, you are authorizing two  payment transactions. The first payment goes to the seller and consists of the item cost and the domestic shipping costs. The second payment goes to the global shipping provider and consists of the international shipping costs and any import charges.

(5) Shipping from Kentucky to Canada should be included with import charges levied by Pitney Bowes... not to the seller...  This is a problem with many listings... where domestic shipping is free.....

eBay you have a problem..

If a seller lists a cost for  International Priority Shipping to Canada,  and then Pitney Bowes adds shipping from Kentucky to Canada as a part of import charges.... 

In such a situation,  a Canadian buyer is being double charged for international shippping

First by the seller.

and second by Piney Biowes...

All  sellers that use GSP should have the same cost for shipping whether it be within the US  or to any GSP country..... 

Evidently  a problem  with how the shipping option is presented for GSP items.

Shpping to non-GSP countries should be international shipping while shipping to GSP countries  should be equal to  domestic shipping....

[cumos55]

If the seller charges international shipping  and Pitney Bowes applies international shipping within import charges

then

for Canadian buyers..... This may explain why shipping costs are so high.....

For a GSP listing with shipping to a GSP country... the cost for shipping indicated by the seller should be domestic shipping

NOT international shipping

[rosscd57]

It seems to me that the easiest way to avoid this problem is: 

just not to purchase anything from the USA that uses GPS. Someone out their in the ether of eBay will eventually figure out that sales and fees are being lost.

This ain't rocket science  - most of us have it figured out.

[pjcdn2005]

(1) Is it standard for sellers to offer free shipping within the US for GSP listed item?

If the seller offers free shipping within the U.S. then the domestic portion of the shipping charge to a gsp country would be free. If the sellers charges $5 for shipping within the U.S. then the domestic portion of the shipping charge for a gsp country would be $5 and so on.. The seller has no choice on this, the gsp system automatically calculates it like that. The seller does not enter ANY amount into the shipping charge for a gsp country.

(2) One then sees a cost for shipping to Canada listed as International Priority Shipping to Canada.

Right. That number is compromised of the domestic shipping amount being charged and the amount being charged from Kentucky to Canada.

(3) If the item is mailed to Kentucky by the seller..  and shipping is free within the US .. why then is there a seller's shipping cost for an item that will eventually go to Canada?

You're assuming that is just a sellers shipping cost but it is a combination of the the sellers domestic charge and PB's international charge.

4) Who gets this amount for International Priority Shipping to Canada? 

The seller gets the domestic portion and PB gets the international portion.

...and based on this next comment it is the seller

When you pay for the item through PayPal, you are authorizing two  payment transactions. The first payment goes to the seller and consists of the item cost and the domestic shipping costs. The second payment goes to the global shipping provider and consists of the international shipping costs and any import charges.

As you can see, it says that domestic shipping costs go to the seller and international shipping costs AND import charges go to PB. The seller does not get all of the portion listed under shipping charges. If their domestic shipping is free then all of the shipping charge plus imports charges would go to PB.

eBay you have a problem..

Well, I can't disagree with that...lol.

But gsp countries are not being double charged for shipping so that is not one of ebays problems.

[cumos55]

If the seller lists a cost for international shipping... seller gets that amount....  Pitney Bowes  has nothing to do with this amount.

Pitney Bowes levies import charges...  and that includes shipping from Kentucky to Canada.

The problem is that the computer program is entering the wrong value for seller's shipping cost to Canada.

If domestic shipping is "free shipping"  then seller should show i shipping as zero... shipping to Kentucky...

This is how I read the information about GSP  as indicated by eBay.

Seller gets the cost of the item plus domestic shipping....to Kentucky.....  no international component for the seller.

[pierrelebel]

So many interpretations, so many opinions, most of them valid based on the limited infomation provided by eBay.

However, the differences in interpretations and opinions show the need for eBay.ca to address the original questions raised weeks ago and not yet addressed.

How long can the staff and management at eBay.ca hide behind "We are waiting to hear from Head Office in San Jose to answer your questions.'?

[tobyshitzu]

I dont see any problem with shipping or understand why it is difficult, pj is obviously right.    The intl shipping is both the sellers domestic rate (if any) and what the fulfillment center is adding to send to canada.  The import charges have nothing to do wtih shipping, its obvious enough to look at the amounts on a few non dutiable items to see it wouldnt be enough to be shipping too.  Looks like the minimum amount for a small item to Canada is about $10.50 etra  for shipping plus the min $3.34 import charge beyond the taxes.    The shipping isnt unreasonable compared to the new usps retail rates, but clearly they are profiting form their volume rates.  AMZN would be charging $9 extra (on top of "Free" domestic shiping generally to the USA in the price) compared to that $13.84

[pjcdn2005]

I dont see any problem with shipping or understand why it is difficult,

Thanks toby...I don't really understand why this particular issue is difficult as it is basically spelled out in the ebay information, however some seem to be interperting it in a different way.

However,I do think that ebay and/or PB could do a better job by breaking down the amounts paid so that the buyer knows how much they are paying for each category.....shipping charges, tax, duty, fees etc.

Also, for some reasons sellers blindly list using the gsp having no idea what that decision is going to cost their customers. I wish that they would automatically see at least an approximate of what the buyer is going to be paying for shipping and import charges on their items. That way, they might make a more informed decision on whether or not the gsp is a good idea for their items. I realze that they could see that on their own in just a few steps but like I said..many just blindly do it and don't even think of the consequences.

[pjcdn2005]

The problem is that the computer program is entering the wrong value for seller's shipping cost to Canada.

If domestic shipping is "free shipping"  then seller should show i shipping as zero... shipping to Kentucky...

Why do you assume that the wrong value is being entered? As explained, the only shipping charge that you see is a combination of the sellers domestic portion and of PB;s international portion. Why do you think that the domestic portion is not zero in some cases??

This is how I read the information about GSP  as indicated by eBay.

Seller gets the cost of the item plus domestic shipping....to Kentucky.....  no international component for the seller.

Right. That's what we've been saying so I don't understand what the problem is. It says right there what the seller receives...the domestic portion of the shipping charges.  You seem to be assuming that the seller receives whatever the amount says under shipping charges and PB receives only what it says under import charges even though the import charges are often under $4 which would obviously not cover international shipping, taxes, fees etc.

The info from ebay does not say that the seller receives everything listed under shipping charges and it does not say that PB recieves only the amount under import charges. It explains what the seller receives and what PB receives.

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/buy/shipping-globally.html

During checkout, you'll see the final charges, which include the item price, the shipping charges (both domestic and international), and any import charges. The shipping charges include any US domestic shipping fees charged by the seller, as well as program fees, international shipping charges, fuel surcharges, and processing and handling fees.

International shipping charges are calculated based on a number of factors, including your delivery address, shipping weight, and package dimensions. A network of shipping carriers areA network of shipping carriers is used to provide fast and reliable international shipping at competitive rates.

When you pay for the item through PayPal, you are authorizing 2 payment transactions are created. The first payment goes to the seller and consists of the item price and the domestic shipping charges. The second payment goes to the global shipping provider and consists of the international shipping charges and any import charges.

If you don't believe me, do what I did...I asked gsp sellers what they entered for shipping for a gsp country and what amount did they receive from the buyer.

When I asked, the answer to the first question was that they did not enter anything for gsp countries as those countries were considered as being domestic.

The answer to the 2nd question was that the amount they received from the buyer was the price of the item + the amount that they charged for shipping to domestic customers. If domestic shipping was free, they received only the price of the item.

[cumos55]

I had assumed there would be two shipping charges...

The first from the seller to Kentucky

and... the second from Kentucky to the Canadian buyer.... and that this second charge would be within import charges.... 

Knowing how the listing is put together provides us a better understanding of what actually happens.

It has taken a lot of questions  and answers, not from eBay people,  but from other contacts, such as US sellers that use GSP.

It still would be more than acceptable for  a breakdown of all costs be provided in an invoice sent to a Canadian buyer....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Canadian buyer buys from a US seller, and with the GSP the total cost includes, most if not all of the following...

(1) The price of the item purchased.

(2) GST/HST   (What about  PST?)---  charged on the price of the item, if price is greater than $20 Canadian

(3) Shipping cost from US seller to Canadian  buyer... with some of that cost going to the seller and the remainder to Pitney Bowes....

(4) Customs charges,  if applicable  ( and separate from any applicable duty)

(5) Duty on select items, perhaps...

(6) Pitney Bowes fee....  and ...Could this be that $3.34 charge... or maybe not!

Should this breakdown be on an invoice forwarded to a Canadian buyer?

.

[fruitacres]

---

@rosscd57 wrote:

It seems to me that the easiest way to avoid this problem is: 

just not to purchase anything from the USA that uses GPS. Someone out their in the ether of eBay will eventually figure out that sales and fees are being lost.

This ain't rocket science  - most of us have it figured out.

---

Instead you would agree to the sticker shock of extra charge from UPS to liberate yoru package from their grip?  Compare also to total shipping cost when a US seller is required to figure in Delivery Confirmation to your Canadian address.  It is not nearly as cheap as in US to US.

[fruitacres]

---

@pierrelebel wrote:

So many interpretations, so many opinions, most of them valid based on the limited infomation provided by eBay.

However, the differences in interpretations and opinions show the need for eBay.ca to address the original questions raised weeks ago and not yet addressed.

How long can the staff and management at eBay.ca hide behind "We are waiting to hear from Head Office in San Jose to answer your questions.'?

---

You are assuming that raphael still works for ebay.  He admitted to not knowing something and said your points were valid.  That's a death sentence double in ebay employee manual.  "Never admit not knowing, and never ever admit that eBay may be wrong.  Doing so may result in imeediate termination." 😉

[pierrelebel]

"You are assuming.."

I try not to "assume" anything, knowing very well the meaning of the word! 😉 

What you may not know is that an eBay email address used as a posting ID on these boards does not necessarily reflect a specific employee. 

The Canadian board manager is kalvin@eBay.com The individual using that ID today is not the same employee who used that same ID a year ago.  Employees come and go... User IDs remain!

Let' s not assume anything.  Let's wait for the staff and management (that is you Russ!) to properly address the many questions raised instead of speculating on possible or "logical" answers.