eBay

coldwarbonnet · ‎01-04-2014

I am thinking of selling down-loadable JPEG files of my own original photographs and would like to be paid in bitcoins. How is this done?

pierrelebel · ‎01-23-2014

The FBI is concerned: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/05/fbi-fears-bitcoin/

rose-dee · ‎01-23-2014

@nuvistors wrote:
The really big question is> Why would someone want bitcoins.

They have no intrinisic value and are only a few characters on a hard drive.

Bank notes as we know them (bills with different denominations) are just paper -- well, polymer nowadays -- with pretty pictures and some numbers on them too. An electronic bank account or electronic paycheque in Canadian dollars is, effectively, just characters on a hard drive as well.

The difference is that these are in Canadian dollars, a government-approved and backed, legal currency (or tender -- check your polymer notes), that by definition and design is controllable and traceable (at least bank notes are).

As 'recped' said, bitcoins, as I understand them, provide an anonymous, "under the table", essentially untraceable currency that is just perfect for criminal activity.

pierrelebel · ‎01-23-2014

"provide an anonymous, "under the table", essentially untraceable currency"

Many years ago when I was audited (GST/HST and income tax) for my eBay business, the tax auditor - not very aware of how eBay and PayPal worked - kept asking "How do I know you have not transferred money to an account in Switzerland?"

How will they deal with Bitcoins?

rose-dee · ‎01-23-2014

@pierrelebel wrote:
The FBI is concerned: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/05/fbi-fears-bitcoin/

No wonder. Then they give out hints on how to protect anonymity -- very intelligent.

Being a linguist, I couldn't help having my attention drawn to the Latin inscription on the "sample" coin. My Latin grammar is pretty rusty, but the gist is:

"Strength of the many/Chains rule all/Freedom from oppression/The people's victory (or "long live the people", or something along those lines -- I'm not completely sure what "V'i" is supposed to mean -- they may have just run out of room on the coin and needed to use a contraction, which is rarely done in Latin.

Sounds strangely like the clarion call of the Tea Party, doesn't it?

pierrelebel · ‎01-27-2014

It gets better!

2 Bitcoin operators charged in NY 'Silk Road' bust

NEW YORK (AP) — The top executive of a Manhattan-based Bitcoin company and a Florida Bitcoin exchanger have been charged with conspiring to commit money laundering by selling more than $1 million in Bitcoins to users of the black market website Silk Road, which let users buy illegal drugs anonymously, authorities said Monday.

Charlie Shrem, 24, the chief executive officer of BitInstant and vice chairman of a foundation that promotes the Bitcoin currency system, was arrested Sunday at New York's Kennedy Airport while Robert Faiella was arrested Monday at his Cape Coral, Fla., residence, prosecutors said in a news release. Federal prosecutors in Manhattan said Shrem personally bought drugs on Silk Road and was fully aware that it was a drug-trafficking website.

more: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/2-bitcoin-operators-charged-ny-39-silk-road-174244980.html

rose-dee · ‎01-27-2014

@pierrelebel wrote:
It gets better!
2 Bitcoin operators charged in NY 'Silk Road' bust

No doubt the tip of the iceberg at that!

cumos55 · ‎01-27-2014

The US dollar has value because it is backed by the US economy, and the stability of the US economy.

The same applies to each and every currency around this world of ours....

Argentina restricted international purchases by it's citizens, in order to preserve its economic standing.

We can point to situations where a country has suffered.... but has recovered because of that country's stability within the economic balance among countries

Bitcoin has no backing, no value defined on the basis of a stable entity.....

and if it disappeared tomorrow...

How would one recover the value of Bitcoin held in reserve?....

Governments must shut Bitcoin down, mainly because it undermines the basis principle of monetary value.....

Monetary value is defined in relation to a country's economic value and stability.

There was a major concern when the internet allowed for monetary transfers..... a creation of value in a cyber universe......That was addressed with the understanding that all transfers were defined in relation to a true monetary value.... in relation to a country's economic standing, and in relation to all other countries

The value of a currency, and the relationship among currencies is based on the economic standing of each country.

Bitcoin is a cyber entity without any monetary backing, without any true value, should it disappear tomorrow.... and that is the scariest part of using Bitcoin....

cumos55 · ‎01-27-2014

Canada says bitcoin is not legal tender

Link to...

http://blogs.wsj.com/canadarealtime/2014/01/16/canada-says-bitcoin-isnt-legal-tender/

More problems

http://globalnews.ca/news/996853/as-bitcoin-surges-canadian-banks-make-converting-to-cash-difficult/

How to create something out of nothing?????

https://localbitcoins.com/country/CA

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/04/27/bitcoin-canada-banks/

cumos55 · ‎01-27-2014

Bitcoin is trading like gold... at close to the price of gold...

Effectively it is making something out of nothing....Something that started at $10

cumos55 · ‎01-27-2014

Bitcoins are on eBay.... but not as a method of payment....

Or......

rose-dee · ‎01-28-2014

@cumos55 wrote:

Effectively it is making something out of nothing....

This is an important point, because it is precisely what was behind the two most devastating economic meltdowns in the last 100 years -- the 1929 crash, and the 2008 crash. Both were fueled by entities that had essentially no real value (or very little value) in the real world.

One can only hope governments will shut this down before too much of the GNP of important economies is tied up in ethereal, valueless "credits" on nameless computers.

dipmicro · ‎01-28-2014

Any currency has value only when large group of people trust they can exchange it for items they need. Currency itself has no value, it's a promise of exchange that has value. For a long time shells were used as currency and in some countries they were legal tender till mid 19th century. When I was a kid, we used glass balls or plastic chained Cs to trade and gamble and everything could be exchanged for Cs. One school full of kids was sufficient mass to create an actual "currency".

as I understand them, provide an anonymous, "under the table", essentially untraceable currency that is just perfect for criminal activity.

And so does cash, or gold, or any universally accepted item or commodity that is easy to exchange. In prisons currency is usually cigarettes even by people who don't smoke.

So FBI caught guy who traded an item that was never regulated, now they claim Bitcoin is currency and subject to currency regulations, effectively acknowledging it as currency and making it stronger. Secondly, next time they just may charge the guy who sold the car which was then used for criminal activity.

This guy will walk like Kim Dotcom, the founder of Megavideo, who started another website about 1yr after he was charged for Megavideo. FBI will have some small drug purchase and he will counter-sue for police abuse and they will settle on some $10k fine while spending millions of taxpayer's money to mount the silly case instead of solving real crimes. Bitcoin is not a cause for a criminal activity, criminal activity will happen one way or another, but FBI needs to show "some activity" so they busted an easy meaningless target and made it into national headline. Vivat FBI, we love you and feel so safe now !

rose-dee · ‎01-28-2014

You have a point about every dollar of currency not being backed by a de facto unit or item of value. The gold standard was left behind many decades ago. Still, any national currency has value because it represents the economic strength of the entire country. The only reason for some sorts of alternative currency (like children's whatnots or prison camp cigarettes) is because those groups are essentially outside the main economy, shut out of access to legal currency.

After WWII, when there was effectively no German economy, black market items like nylon stockings and American chocolate were traded as currency. There are many other examples, none of which represent a national basis of stability.

Your savings account in a Canadian bank is guaranteed (up to a point) by the Canadian government, and you can walk into a bank, take out every dollar you own, and spend it on anything, anywhere in Canada (and, because most of the world still trusts Canada's economy, trade it for other currencies to spend elsewhere). This notion of having a foundation consisting of a collective economic strength was behind the creation of the Euro. And it's also precisely what bitcoin is not.

The main issue though that I see with bitcoin is that it really is the perfect vehicle for nefarious activity. Say what you will, it's hard to argue with the criminal attraction of a "currency" that can't be traced, with records that can be made completely anonymous.

There is a reason for those serial numbers on our paper (polymer) bills, and a reason why banks must keep records of electronic transactions (including the parties' identities and other data, which can be subpoenaed as evidence at trial).

I agree though that the enforcing of the law and/or removal of bitcoin may be long and difficult. Still, I think it needs to be done before it becomes so entrenched that we (or the US, more to point) end up with an economy that looks like Russia's.

femmefan1946 · ‎01-28-2014

Barter credits disappeared pretty quick after barterers learned that they were just as taxable as any other form of currency.

Money is just labour in tradable form after all.

There is a fairly widespread notion that Bitcoin was started by some criminal organization (possibly a Japaneze yakuza gang, since the anonymous inventor (or inventors) are almost certainly Japanese) to avoid revenue agencies tracking their income.

And of course, in its early days Paypal was notorious as being used by gambling organizations, which are at least quasi-legal.

Maybe the PP CEO is just going into andropause. Bitcoin is his version of the red sportcar and a blonde named Tiffani.

rose-dee · ‎01-29-2014

@femmefan1946 wrote:

Maybe the PP CEO is just going into andropause. Bitcoin is his version of the red sportcar and a blonde named Tiffani.

This really, honestly, made me LOL!!

cumos55 · ‎01-29-2014

European Union issued a warning about Bitcoin

http://www.businessinsider.com/european-union-eba-bitcoin-warning-2013-12

http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/13/technology/bitcoin-europe-regulation/

China and Alibaba.... China said NO but bitcoin survives!!! and in China???

http://www.zdnet.com/cn/chinas-bitcoin-exchanges-aim-to-work-around-rules-7000025010/

http://rt.com/business/alibaba-bitcoin-ban-taobao-353/

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

http://gizmodo.com/should-bitcoin-be-illegal-1440345614

cumos55 · ‎01-29-2014

Everyone can buy Bitcoins with US dollars.

Bitcoins can be used like it was money.

But... What if everyone took the Bitcoins they bought at low value US dollars and wanted to exchange their Bitcoins for US dollars,

... a higher value Bitcoin...and a run on conversion to US dollars.

It is an investment... Buy Low... $24 and sell high... Remember that Norwegian who bought Bitcoin at $24 each and then bought an apartment with Bitcoin.

My investments are in Canadian and US dollars.... ... I have to call my financial adviser and alert him to the fact ... I do not want any investments with Bitcoin as a part of their portfolio.... Too volatile, and too stupid....

rose-dee · ‎01-29-2014

@cumos55 wrote:

But... What if everyone took the Bitcoins they bought at low value US dollars and wanted to exchange their Bitcoins for US dollars,

... a higher value Bitcoin...and a run on conversion to US dollars.

This is a good point, and one that could easily be overlooked in the discussion over purely criminal issues associated with Bitcoin. It's also another good reason to ban Bitcoin. No wonder the EU is taking this seriously before it becomes pandemic.

I doubt there is presently enough Bitcoin in circulation out there to create a truly serious threat to the US dollar, as long as people have some belief in Bitcoin and they don't all try to cash into dollars at once. Unlike Bitcoin, the US Federal Reserve has control over how many dollars are circulating and would presumably (hopefully!) crack down on sites trading Bitcoin for US dollars before too much damage was done. This is what regulatory bodies do today with stocks that go berserk.

Still, the analogy is chilling, and too much of this "junk currency" in circulation could be a significant concern for that reason, aside from the fact that Bitcoin is effectively pulling money out of the legitimate economy, thus putting a back-end drag on the GNP.

People see Bitcoin as some sort of "freedom currency", but I doubt many stop to consider the issues around Bitcoin that economists worry about, nor (as some have pointed out here) the source of this destructive idea. Those economic dangers far outweigh the benefits of any personal liberties associated with Bitcoin, especially if enough of that garbage currency gets tied up in the hands of ordinary people, let alone criminals. It would end in the kind of "freedom" people experienced in the Great Depression -- freedom from homes, freedom from jobs, freedom from food.

cumos55 · ‎01-29-2014

There are many people who trade in Bitcoin.

One gets the impression that if a bank finds out a customer is trading in Bitcoin, that customer's bank accounts are closed.

Banks do not want to have anything to do with Bitcoin

Why?

Perhaps because Bitcoin has no real monetary value.....

nuvistors · ‎01-29-2014

@cumos55 wrote:
There are many people who trade in Bitcoin.

One gets the impression that if a bank finds out a customer is trading in Bitcoin, that customer's bank accounts are closed.

Banks do not want to have anything to do with Bitcoin

Why?

Perhaps because Bitcoin has no real monetary value.....

Perhaps it is because the vast majority of bitcoin transactions are for something illegal or at least in the shady grey area.