eBay

kerstingunnel · ‎06-22-2013

Since 2009 I have been and am a VERY happy eBay buyer. The recent surge of US based eBay sellers partnering with GSP, however, has me scratch my head. From what I can tell, it postures to solve a completely non-existing problem while creating a very tangible and substantial one.

In the years I have been buying on eBay, a shipment to me from the US has NEVER ONCE been halted at the Canadian Border Agency to accrue charges of broker's fees, sales taxes and import charges. I have NOT PAID A CENT EVER in such charges for shipments originating from US based eBay sellers. Shipments can be halted, but in my own experience, they rarely, if ever, are.

For each and every purchase from a seller who is partnering with GSP, however, such charges are paid (probably in addition to monies paid to eBay and GSP for their hand in the arrangement) and paid substantially. In a typical eBay transaction an item won at $26 cost $11.50 to ship and $9.51 (!!!) in GSP import charges.

Postal rates have gone up steeply for international shipping recently, adding to the sudden increase in the cost of shipping to Canada..

EBay may not be able to influence US postal costs, but the GSP partnership with eBay vendors is definitely an area of eBay's direct control and prerogative.

I will not buy from an eBay business who partners with GSP.

This year we Canadians number 35 million people and I'm sure that there are many of them who LOVE eBay as much as I do. Since this is a substantial market, I think it would be exceedingly foolish and myopic of eBay to jeopardize it altogether by taking GSP on board. Several eBay sellers I have contacted say that if the partnership becomes mandatory, they will cease to offer their listings to Canadians. Some have tried to work with GSP and find immediately that it doesn't serve them or their Canadian customers well - they have subsequently backed out of the partnership. Many have figured out beforehand and on their own that it wouldn't be in their interest or that of their Canadian customers and they have not opted for bringing GSP on board. All sellers say that they are encouraged by eBay to partner with GSP.

Every seller I have discussed this issue with was under the impression that this a valuable service devised to streamline the buying process and solve existing problems for their Canadian customers. This is, then, patently untrue. If this is how eBay, against their better knowing, "sells" the GSP program to their vendors, eBay actively misleads them. If eBay is unaware of the real state of affairs in regards to import charges, it ought to look into the factual situation more diligently before making such a serious move. It appears to be a predatory and parasitic practise.

It seems, thus, that the arrangement benefits GSP, eBay and the coffers of Canada. It doesn't benefit eBay vendors or their Canadian customers. In the end, since we all coexist and are interdependent, if it chokes or severely affects the Canadian market, only GSP and the government of Canada come out the winners, not eBay, not eBay sellers, not Canadian eBay buyers.

Other US based on-line businesses are partnered with similar programs for shipping to Canadian customers, which is one of the reasons I always prefer to buy on eBay.

Why fix what works perfectly well without fixing?

exoteeth · ‎08-14-2013

Ah, ok. Found this::

"Pitney Bowes will arrange for the international shipment of your Buyer’s order from the U.S. Shipping Center by a third party shipping carrier (or carriers) to the delivery address designated by your Buyer. You and your Buyer will be able to track the international shipment of the order from the United States to your Buyer’s designated delivery address within My eBay."

Still, I have yet to receive another tracking number. Hopefully that will change.

lpwasy · ‎08-14-2013

When Fedex or Ups brokers an international package to Canada they pay the fees, taxes for you to be reimbursed when you get the bill. In the bill is a little extra charge for interest for the money they had to lay out and I will bet it ain't at the overnight bank rate. Just another little cost of the GSP.

Honestly, how does it make things easier for the seller? All I can see is that he doesn't have to fill out the customs forms. Is that such a hardship? If a person can figure out how to get a listing up on ebay the customs form is a no brainer.

And another thing, it will show say $23.95 Priority Mail International shipping to Canada yet we know this to be incorrect if it is a GSP item. I checked the US postage on this same item and it was $5.95. I would be interested to know if that is the actual price charged to get it to Kentucky or is there a GSP rate. Perhaps the programmers could fix that little glitch so anyone foolish enough to buy GSP has a better idea of what they are getting into.

It will have to be a pretty special item that I simply cannot get another way before I will bid on a GSP item.

lpwasy · ‎08-14-2013

I forgot to add to my first paragraph that it states in How the GSP works that Pitney Bowes will be adding a charge for this as well.

marnotom! · ‎08-14-2013

@lpwasy wrote:
When Fedex or UPS brokers an international package to Canada they pay the fees, taxes for you to be reimbursed when you get the bill. In the bill is a little extra charge for interest for the money they had to lay out and I will bet it ain't at the overnight bank rate. Just another little cost of the GSP.

Unless things have changed in the last little bit, UPS actually collects the taxes and brokerage fees owing on a ground shipment from the States at the time of delivery. No time passes between the delivery of the item and the collection of the taxes/fees so that should really minimize any interest owing. With the GSP, the buyer repays the advanced taxes and fees pretty much at the same time as the item itself is paid for, if you want to look at it that way, so there shouldn't be any interest accrued.

Honestly, how does it make things easier for the seller? All I can see is that he doesn't have to fill out the customs forms. Is that such a hardship? If a person can figure out how to get a listing up on ebay the customs form is a no brainer.

You may wish to pose this question on the .com boards where you should get an interesting range of answers from American sellers. We can only really speculate on whether this is marketing hype or if there's something to this selling point. I will say that there are many, many U.S. sellers on eBay who haven't sent anything out of the country in their lives and have no idea what's involved at all, hence it seems dark and scary.

And another thing, it will show say $23.95 Priority Mail International shipping to Canada yet we know this to be incorrect if it is a GSP item. I checked the US postage on this same item and it was $5.95. I would be interested to know if that is the actual price charged to get it to Kentucky or is there a GSP rate. Perhaps the programmers could fix that little glitch so anyone foolish enough to buy GSP has a better idea of what they are getting into.

You may be misreading the shipping information on a GSP listing. The description of the shipping method on a GSP method is "International Priority Shipping" which is not the same as "Priority Mail International." The mail system has nothing to do with getting an item from Kentucky to Canada.

In case you're unaware, the shipping rate for a GSP item is calculated on the seller's price in the listing (or first price if they offer multiple shipping methods) to get the item to Erlanger, Kentucky plus whatever it costs the GSP to get the item from Erlanger to its final destination. Sellers who offer "free" domestic shipping are going to have much more reasonable shipping charges for their GSP items than those who charge their U.S. buyers for shipping similar items.

It will have to be a pretty special item that I simply cannot get another way before I will bid on a GSP item.

Keep an open mind. I've been checking higher ticket items like mobile phones and the shipping and import charges for those being shipped through the GSP seem remarkably reasonable to me.

mutesong · ‎08-14-2013

I agree. I haven't and won't buy any products showing the import fee. unfortunately if Ebay's makes this change mandatory. I will be closing my eBay account.

It is bad enough to have to pay such high shipping fees.

All of us Canadian customers must unite against this injustice!

marnotom! · ‎08-15-2013

@mutesong wrote:

All of us Canadian customers must unite against this injustice!

All of us Canadian eBay buyers must also stop thinking of the GSP as a scam, bogus, illegal or an injustice. Because it isn't any of those. Hyperbole will get you nowhere.

lpwasy · ‎08-15-2013

marnotom!

We have some Northern Gateway Pipeline PR people out here in B.C. They have been telling us in a calm and measured tones for 5 years now how as soon as we know the facts we will think the pipeline is a good idea. They are always unemotional and always have the answers. As soon as we know the facts we will believe that a pipeline through pristine wilderness is a good idea.

With reference to Fedex/UPS: It is called a disbursment fee and is juat that, it includes whatever the interest charge is PLUS, it is a fee for advancing duties and taxes to the CBSA on my behalf. In this case even if they got my money from paypal right away to pay CBSA they aren't going to do it for free. Added cost.

If a US seller offers free domestic shipping why would the GSP shipping cost to Kentucky be other than free. What is much more reasonable than free? What a bogus setup. How can a reasonable person think there is not something shady going on. All ebay has to do is provide the formula they use to calculate the fees and wa can plug in a potential bid and know the cost up front. What a convoluted mess.

If you were buying a car for 50K and the salesman said "just sign the sales agreement then we will tell you what the final cost will be" I rather doubt you would do it.

"Keep an open mind. I've been checking higher ticket items like mobile phones and the shipping and import charges for those being shipped through the GSP seem remarkably reasonable to me."

Of course it seems more reasonable as the price goes up because there is a basic rate then a percentage that probbly diminishes as the price rises. It is still a cost that wasn't there before.

With reference to the quote of your last sentence, see my first paragraph.

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-15-2013

If a US seller offers free domestic shipping why would the GSP shipping cost to Kentucky be other than free. What is much more reasonable than free? What a bogus setup. How can a reasonable person think there is not something shady going on.

If a U.S. seller offers free shipping within the U.S. then there is no charge for shipping to the Kentucky GSP center. Not all sellers ship for free within the U.S. so if their normal charge to ship to a customer in Kentucky is $5, then that amount will be added on to the shipping charges from Kentucky to Canada. Nothing shady about that.

Just for fun..why don't you choose an item such as a newer camera..something that is priced at more than $100.Then look to see what non GSP U.S. sellers charge for shipping to Canada. If a U.S. seller has a higher priced item, they often use priority international to ship an item and that can be pricey.

Then, check out GSP sellers who have the similar item/similar price. Combine the shipping price and import fees and then compare that to the first group. In some cases, using the GSP will work out to be less expensive.

lpwasy · ‎08-15-2013

For anyone who wants to do some reading:

1. "International priority shipping" (or "Shipping"): this Program Fee consists of charges associated with the parcel processing and shipping services described above and is comprised of the following variable amounts: your Seller's shipping charges to ship your order to the U.S. Shipping Center; third party international shipping charges to ship your order from the U.S. Shipping Center to your designated delivery address; fuel surcharges; charges for selling, general, and administrative expenses, hardware, software development and licenses, operations, and hosting by Pitney Bowes; charges from third party parcel processing service providers and for the management of the parcel processing service providers and related software systems; charges relating to the management of insurance for lost or damaged items; charges for operational expenses associated with short-term loss recovery and the management of variances between the quoted Shipping amount and actual costs; and any referral fees paid by Pitney Bowes to eBay for referring you to the Program.
2. "Import charges": this Program Fee consists of charges associated with the customs service described above and is comprised of the following variable amounts: sales, goods and services, and value added taxes, duties, tariffs, excise taxes, and other amounts assessed or levied by any government authority in connection with the importation of goods into the applicable country of importation (but excluding income taxes) ("Commodity taxes"); third party brokerage fees (including advancement and disbursement charges and customs brokers handling and filing fees); penalties (but excluding any customs duties, taxes, surcharges, fines, penalties, or other charges which may be imposed on you by customs or tax officials after a GSP Item has successfully cleared customs and been delivered to, or made available for pickup at, the delivery address that you specify); classification charges associated with the assignment of a Harmonized System ("HS") classification code; charges for export compliance screening and verification and the assignment of an Export Control Classification Number (ECCN); and operational expenses associated with short-term loss recovery and the management of variances between the quoted Import charges and actual costs. Note: at eBay's discretion, applicable classification and export compliance charges, third party brokerage fees, and operational expenses may instead be included within the Shipping amount that is quoted to you.

Payment Split. PayPal will split your payment of the Program Fees between your Seller and Pitney Bowes in the following manner, as reflected within your Order Details page and, if you have a PayPal account, in your PayPal account overview:
1. Payment to your Seller: PayPal will transmit to your Seller's PayPal account that portion of your payment consisting of the GSP Item price and the amount (if any) charged by your Seller to ship the GSP Item to the U.S. Shipping Center.
2. Payment to Pitney Bowes: PayPal will transmit the balance of your payment to Pitney Bowes's PayPal account (identifiable with the description "Pitney Bowes Inc.").
Program Fee Estimates. The Program Fees quoted in your Seller's listing are estimates only and are subject to change until you pay for the GSP Item and the quoted Program Fees in full during checkout. With the exception of the shipping charges specified by your Seller to ship your order to the U.S. Shipping Center, the quoted Program Fees are derived from real-time, proprietary estimates of applicable international shipping and import charges by Pitney Bowes. Pitney Bowes's estimates may not always reflect actual costs to Pitney Bowes; actual shipping and/or import costs may be more or less than the estimates. However, subject to your compliance with these Terms, your payment of the GSP Item price and quoted Program Fees during checkout represents the total amount of Shipping and Import charges for a GSP Item to be purchased, shipped to the delivery address specified by you, cleared by customs, and delivered to (or made available for pickup at) the delivery address that you specify. You will not request, and you will not receive, a refund for the difference, if any, between Program Fees paid by you and actual costs to Pitney Bowes in the event that actual shipping and/or import costs are less than the amounts paid by you.
Remittance of Program Fees to Third Parties. Upon receipt of your payment of the Program Fees, Pitney Bowes shall be responsible for paying its service providers for fees owed to its service providers and for remitting Commodity taxes to governmental authorities, as applicable.
Payment Reversals. If eBay, Pitney Bowes, or Pitney Bowes's service providers determine, after you have purchased a GSP Item, that the GSP Item is ineligible for the Program or cannot be shipped to you (for whatever reason), eBay and its affiliates shall have the right to cancel your purchase in lieu of proceeding with the processing and/or shipment of the GSP Item and, upon exercising this right, shall reverse the PayPal payment that you made to your Seller and to Pitney Bowes for the GSP Item and will process the GSP Item as an undeliverable item, as described below.

I now better understand the "International Priority Shipping" portion. It changes nothing abot how I feel toward this program.

How is this for a conspiracy theory. I suspect this is a way for the Canadian government to more efficiently collect HST/GST on imported items without having to hire more people. So now we are creating jobs in the USA. Essentially we have outsourced a portion of our tax collection system. Mr. Harpers feelings toward the "posties" were quite apparent during the last round of contract talks.

What is shady is this: If they can calculate the costs immediately upon me making a purchase on ebay of an item why can't they tell me those costs before I commit. All they need to do is have a GSP calculator where the bidder could put in the amount he is willing to bid and know the cost instantly. Just like a currency converter.

I'm all in boys, I've said my piece on this subject and there are more important things to do.

pierrelebel · ‎08-15-2013

"I suspect this is a way for the Canadian government to more efficiently collect HST/GST on imported items without having to hire more people. So now we are creating jobs in the USA. Essentially we have outsourced a portion of our tax collection system." Mr. Harpers feelings toward the "posties" were quite apparent during the last round of contract talks."

Interesting.

The results are the same: Canadian GST/HST/PST will be calculated, collected and remitted to the Canadian government by an American company using American workers.

I agree with you: it would be preferable to use Canadian workers to do the same job: collecting all taxes due at time of importation. It is a shame the Canadian government allows the current situation to continue.

"Mr. Harpers feelings toward the "posties" were quite apparent during the last round of contract talks."

However, that sentence makes no sense as Canadian duty (if applicable) and taxes (GST/HST/PST) are NOT calculated and assessed by "posties". The job is handled by staff of the Canada Revenue Agency (Canada Customs). Only the collection of taxes is given to the Post Office who receives $9.95 per parcel from the importer (buyer) for their effort.

femmefan1946 · ‎08-15-2013

Honestly, how does it make things easier for the seller? All I can see is that he doesn't have to fill out the customs forms. Is that such a hardship? If a person can figure out how to get a listing up on ebay the customs form is a no brainer.

As I understand it, the big selling point for US sellers is that once the parcel is received by PB in Kentucky, the seller’s responsibility for delivery ends. If a foreign buyer claims non-delivery, he cannot win a Dispute (against the seller) when the seller shows delivery to PB. Where that leaves the buyer is questionable.

If a US seller offers free domestic shipping why would the GSP shipping cost to Kentucky be other than free

TAANSTAFL – There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

“Free Shipping” is adspeak for “the cost of shipping is included in the asking price.” Your argument is invalid

How is this for a conspiracy theory. I suspect this is a way for the Canadian government to more efficiently collect HST/GST on imported items without having to hire more people.

The requirement to pay was always there. Couriers like UPS have been collecting those fees (plus a brokerage fee of $25 or more ) on doorsteps for many years. There are archived thread s about this that are thousands of posts long.

Canada Post handles this "efficiently" by ignoring the whole question and only occasionally charging tax, duty and their own service fee of $10.

If they can calculate the costs immediately upon me making a purchase on ebay of an item why can't they tell me those costs before I commit.

Because they don’t know where you live and sales taxes vary from 5% in Alberta to 15% in some others. Also the exchange rate varies from minute to minute so what you are quoted in loonies on Monday may have dropped or risen by a dime or more by Sunday

.

exoteeth · ‎08-15-2013

As I understand it, the big selling point for US sellers is that once the parcel is received by PB in Kentucky, the seller’s responsibility for delivery ends. If a foreign buyer claims non-delivery, he cannot win a Dispute (against the seller) when the seller shows delivery to PB. Where that leaves the buyer is questionable.

If that's true than I think I've just made my last purchase via the GSP.

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-15-2013

@exoteeth wrote:

As I understand it, the big selling point for US sellers is that once the parcel is received by PB in Kentucky, the seller’s responsibility for delivery ends. If a foreign buyer claims non-delivery, he cannot win a Dispute (against the seller) when the seller shows delivery to PB. Where that leaves the buyer is questionable.

If that's true than I think I've just made my last purchase via the GSP.

If there is no proof of delivery confirmation, the buyer will be refunded all fees including shipping and import fees paid to PB.To be honest, I think that there are still kinks in the refund part of the program as in, it may not go as smooth as it should.... but the buyer will be refunded in the case of inr.

marnotom! · ‎08-15-2013

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

If there is no proof of delivery confirmation, the buyer will be refunded all fees including shipping and import fees paid to PB.To be honest, I think that there are still kinks in the refund part of the program as in, it may not go as smooth as it should.... but the buyer will be refunded in the case of inr.

Agreed. I don't think the intent of the GSP is to leave the buyer high and dry in the event that their item is not received, but there do seem to be some accountability issues with Pitney Bowes and its contractors.

exoteeth · ‎08-15-2013

Ok, it seems I'm posting using two different usernames. I have two accounts with ebay. One is my US account (extoeeth) which I sometimes send packages to a friend in the US. The other is jepcik, which is my Canadian. Just thought I'd mention this to avoid confusion for anyone who finds this thread helpful.

Anyway, I mentioned that my package got to Kentucy via Fedex and there was no tracking info after that. Well I just got an email from ebay with another Canada Post tracking number. It also shows up in MyEbay. Anyway, I'll post back when I get the package.

pierrelebel · ‎08-15-2013

"Just thought I'd mention this to avoid confusion for anyone who finds this thread helpful."

Thank you. I appreciate that as I was confused for a minute about a US buyer questionning GSP.

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-16-2013

@marnotom! wrote:
Agreed. I don't think the intent of the GSP is to leave the buyer high and dry in the event that their item is not received, but there do seem to be some accountability issues with Pitney Bowes and its contractors.

Speaking of accountability, II just found something interesting about the GSP that I don't remember seeing before.....sorry to add to the anti GSP theme..

http://ocsnext.ebay.com/ocs/sr?&query=2792

Remember that with the Global Shipping Program, a seller who offers to refund your original shipping will only be returning the domestic shipping cost; you will not receive a refund for the international shipping cost and import charges that were paid to the US shipping center.

In my mind, a return could be because of a SNAD or because the customer changed their mind. Does that mean that in either situation, the buyer will not receive some of their original shipping charges back and/or their import charges?

This isn't made clear on the buying an item through Global Shipping page. Plus I am fairly sure that ebay reps said that all costs would be refunded in case of a return. Ebay does advertise that buyers are covered & that they will be refunded "original shipping costs". Of course that means that the seller will refund those costs...does the above statement mean that PB doesn't have to follow the same rules?

pierrelebel · ‎08-16-2013

"ebay reps said that all costs would be refunded in case of a return."

Actually, to the best of my recollection, eBay.ca staffers were "washy washy" when that question was asked.

They were asked to state how a Canadian buyer receiving a damaged item should proceed and how would the purchase price, shipping charge and "import charges" be refunded. Still waiting for a clair and comprehensive answer from eBay.ca staffers abd to how a Canadian buyer should proceed.

marnotom! · ‎08-16-2013

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Speaking of accountability, II just found something interesting about the GSP that I don't remember seeing before.....sorry to add to the anti GSP theme..

http://ocsnext.ebay.com/ocs/sr?&query=2792

Remember that with the Global Shipping Program, a seller who offers to refund your original shipping will only be returning the domestic shipping cost; you will not receive a refund for the international shipping cost and import charges that were paid to the US shipping center.

In my mind, a return could be because of a SNAD or because the customer changed their mind. Does that mean that in either situation, the buyer will not receive some of their original shipping charges back and/or their import charges?

This isn't made clear on the buying an item through Global Shipping page. Plus I am fairly sure that ebay reps said that all costs would be refunded in case of a return. Ebay does advertise that buyers are covered & that they will be refunded "original shipping costs". Of course that means that the seller will refund those costs...does the above statement mean that PB doesn't have to follow the same rules?

To me, a literal reading of that statement means that you will not receive a refund from the seller for the international shipping cost and import charges. It doesn't say that you won't receive a refund from Pitney Bowes or the GSP administrator.

Having said that, it does seem to be pretty ambiguous, especially when you take it in context with all the clauses along the lines of "thou shalt not ask for a refund of taxes should we overchargeth you" etc.

You've actually hit on one of my concerns about the GSP: the process of import charge refunds (should they exist) appears to be an awkward one and PB doesn't seem to have a lot of accountability for them in the T&C.

i*m-still-here · ‎08-17-2013

I stopped following the GSP threads a long time ago.......... they're all the same.

BUT......... I hate the GSP, and judging from the posts here that's pretty much unanimous among Canadians.

For each Canadian who posts, there are thousands who don't post.

One bad experience usually means that that buyer won't be back. (It takes a lot of positive experiences to wipe out one negative.)

I'd find the program more than tolerable if those getting nailed by the GSP started buying Canadian, but that sure isn't happening for me.

U.S. sellers use of the GSP seems to wax and wane, but it's starting to look like it's not going anywhere............... but Canadian buyers sure are. According the posts here they're not buying on eBay any longer.

Too bad for all of us!