I don't understand how would someone pay without paypal?

[musicyouneed]

I was just amending my shipping to exclude spain and I came across this.  Looks like a buyer with loads of feedback has been a ebay buyer/seller for years tried 3 times to purchase something from me and because he didn't have a paypal account it would let him/her buy the item.   I don't understand, other than paying you cash on pick up, how do you have people pay you?

 

[i.am.vivian]

---

@musicyouneed wrote:
Never mind, sorry. Immediate payment required. I missed that one so put it on.

---

It's my fault (slow and lazy typist).    🙂 

[musicyouneed]

So if I have IPR on everything and don't block buyers without a paypal account am I going to run into problems?  

[pjcdn2005]

I don't use ipr and I don't block people without a PP account and have had just 1 unpaid item in the last year. Your experience might be different.  Since you do have a lot of multiple sales I wouldn't recommend using ipr unless you have combined shipping rules set up as buyers won't be able to ask for an invoice when they us a cart. 

[i.am.vivian]

---

@musicyouneed wrote:

So if I have IPR on everything and don't block buyers without a paypal account am I going to run into problems?  

---

These are 2 separate things.  With that in mind, there is nothing you can or can't do that will be guaranteed to prevent any possible problem.  There will always be nuisances. 

Immediate Payment Required is the best way to avoid Unpaid Items.  No one can buy until they pay first.  On the up side, you don't have to block for anything, not even Unpaids, because until whoever PAYS, the item is still available. 

The downside is that the REQUEST TOTAL button is not possible when you have IPR on all your listings.  A buyer would have to contact you and a lot of them don't. 

Blocking users without PayPal accounts actually prevents sales, LOL!  but it could be said to prevent those rogue thrill bidders who decide to mess up your listings and buy half the store on a fake zero-feedback ID and then not pay.  I have never had anything like that and I am not sure how much of that "fear story" is just that, a story told around the campfire to scare the children. 

Some categories are worse than others for attracting irresponsible users.  You will have to see what works or doesn't work for you.  If Unpaids are a real problem for you then you might be better off keeping IPR.  I don't have a phone that chimes "ca-ching" at me so I don't get a sense of having made money ahead of actually getting it.  I've learned that I haven't actually been paid until the buyer leaves positive feedback.  Even that is no guarantee, but usually pretty close. 

The bottom line:  You'll sell more if you take those things OFF.  You might also have to deal with more nuisances but if you are like most of us with more time than money, the extra sales make up for the occasional UI. 

[rose-dee]

---

@musicyouneed wrote:

So if I have IPR on everything and don't block buyers without a paypal account am I going to run into problems?  

---

I've never used IPR, but I do block buyers without a PP account.  I've only had 2 or 3 true non-payers in many years.  Whether blocking PP has helped to prevent others, I can't really say.  

However, what I do know is that PP is so easy to set up, secure (and free) for the buyer, that there doesn't seem to be any good reason for buyers not to use it.  My feeling is that buyers who choose not to use Paypal, knowing it's practically the universal payment method on eBay, might be more likely to be problematic anyway.  I could be wrong in this belief, but so far I've seen very, very few buyers actually blocked on my activity list.  

In any case, eBay's systems are no longer set up the way they used to be to accommodate long time frames for payment such as personal cheques from abroad.  These days eBay starts sending out payment reminders to buyers within a few days of purchase, which in itself could cause confusion and upset for a buyer (especially an inexperienced one), leading to problems for the seller.  

The downside, as 'pj' mentions, is that if you block buyers without PP, you block PP users whose account isn't linked to eBay.  Now, it is easy to advise a buyer how to link, but of course they have to ask you first.  

So in the end it's up to you.  You might want to experiment with no PP block and no IPR for a few months and see what the result is, then you'll be able to decide from that experience whether to continue. 

[i.am.vivian]

---

@rose-dee wrote:

However, what I do know is that PP is so easy to set up, secure (and free) for the buyer, that there doesn't seem to be any good reason for buyers not to use it.  My feeling is that buyers who choose not to use Paypal, knowing it's practically the universal payment method on eBay, might be more likely to be problematic anyway.  

---

I don't see how.  Maybe your buyers are all that way, but mine are about 40% credit card users.  I also think people who are responsible enough to have a credit card in the first place know about finances and may not feel they need "instruction" from an eBay seller.  It is not my place to decide what is or is not a "good reason" for anyone to use whatever payment method they choose.  It is so easy at the checkout for the cc users.  Turn them away if you want but I couldn't afford to. 

[rose-dee]

---

@i.am.vivian wrote:

---

@rose-dee wrote:

However, what I do know is that PP is so easy to set up, secure (and free) for the buyer, that there doesn't seem to be any good reason for buyers not to use it.  My feeling is that buyers who choose not to use Paypal, knowing it's practically the universal payment method on eBay, might be more likely to be problematic anyway.  

I don't see how.  Maybe your buyers are all that way, but mine are about 40% credit card users.  I also think people who are responsible enough to have a credit card in the first place know about finances and may not feel they need "instruction" from an eBay seller.  It is not my place to decide what is or is not a "good reason" for anyone to use whatever payment method they choose.  It is so easy at the checkout for the cc users.  Turn them away if you want but I couldn't afford to.  

---

But if a buyer has a credit card, I've never really understood why they would use it directly (taking a certain risk with security issues), rather than setting up a Paypal account linked to the card.  Points perhaps?  However if I remember correctly, you can choose as a buyer to use your credit card through Paypal (maybe that doesn't get points though).  I always use my PP balance, so I've never paid this way as an eBay buyer, but I'd be interested if you know how that functions. 

You have a merchant account set up on eBay to accept credit cards I assume?  I've considered it, but it used to be that there was quite an initial cost for set-up, and of course fees in addition to eBay's FVFs (which, if I recall from several years ago, were higher than Paypal's fees now are).  It may be something I should consider. 

Incidentally, I love the way another site I sell from has managed buyer payment.  They have a feature that will handle any credit card a buyer may choose once the seller opts into it, at no extra cost to the seller.  It works very efficiently.  Perhaps eBay is now doing this as well and I just didn't notice?  

[musicyouneed]

So if a buyer pays with a credit card, does the money end up in my paypal account?  What fees am I looking at, paypal fees even though the buyer didn't use paypal?  Sorry for being so stupid but I would like to understand.  

[i.am.vivian]

---

@rose-dee wrote:

if a buyer has a credit card, I've never really understood why they would use it directly (taking a certain risk with security issues), rather than setting up a Paypal account linked to the card. 

---

As I showed in the earlier post, they go to the checkout where there are 2 choices, PayPal and credit card.  All they have to do is click on the credit card button.  PayPal handles the transaction, taking the money from the card and placing it in the seller's account.  PayPal is the financial operator (if I can call it that) on eBay but they just move the money around.   It looks like this:

[i.am.vivian]

---

@musicyouneed wrote:

So if a buyer pays with a credit card, does the money end up in my paypal account?  What fees am I looking at, paypal fees even though the buyer didn't use paypal?  Sorry for being so stupid but I would like to understand.  

---

Not stupid at all.  Stupid eBay sometimes. EBay makes things seem so much more complicated than they are and when they used to own PP they were really pressing that on people and so many users all got the wrong idea.  It is really not complicated at all. 

The buyer buys, gets the checkout page, clicks the cc option I showed you there, types in the card information just like on any other shop online (the ones who DO have a merchant account) and PayPal forwards the money to the seller.  All in a matter of seconds (or minutes).  You do not pay any more to receive it. 

When your items sell to a card-only user you get the exact same amount with the exact same FVFs.  If you have Immediate Payment, a card user is an immediate payer.  Blocking them is a bad idea in my opinion but up to you. 

[musicyouneed]

I have unblocked them all now.  I do have IPR though, I found that it works for me.  On another site, I have problems with people paying on time, so I prefer to leave IPR on.

[i.am.vivian]

---

@rose-dee wrote:

You have a merchant account set up on eBay to accept credit cards I assume?  I've considered it, but it used to be that there was quite an initial cost for set-up, and of course fees in addition to eBay's FVFs (which, if I recall from several years ago, were higher than Paypal's fees now are).  It may be something I should consider. 

---

No, definitely no merchant here.  No one on eBay needs to be.  Just put up your listings and pick your "blocks" depending on what bugs you the most.  I only block for too  many Unpaids.  THAT to me shows a lack of responsibility, not any of the others.  I also am not too bothered by an unpaid item.  I don't get many anyway but when I do I'm nice about it when I ask for payment, I explain that I need to get my fees back so if they don't want it anymore I understand but I will need to file with eBay to recover my fees.  What I am THINKING to myself may be something else again. 

---

@rose-dee wrote:

Incidentally, I love the way another site I sell from has managed buyer payment.  They have a feature that will handle any credit card a buyer may choose once the seller opts into it, at no extra cost to the seller.  It works very efficiently.  Perhaps eBay is now doing this as well and I just didn't notice?  

---

As far as I know eBay has always been able to do this.  The false notion that it was not possible to buy on eBay without a PP account may have come from the days when they owned both and it was to their financial advantage to make everyone have a PP acc and therefore THINK that it was necessary but at the same time taking any online pyt it could so as to rake in fees fees fees.  EBay is never stupid when it comes to maximizing its intake.
 

[i.am.vivian]

---

@musicyouneed wrote:

I have unblocked them all now.  I do have IPR though, I found that it works for me.  On another site, I have problems with people paying on time, so I prefer to leave IPR on.

---

For a CD seller I tend to think IPR is good.  Almost all the media sellers have it (CDs, DVDs, games) most likely out of necessity.  Too many kids buying up their "wish list" with no real money to pay.  Too inconsiderate to send the seller an apology and cancel.

Anyway, you can always take it off later.  It's not crazy-glued on there.  LOL! 

[rose-dee]

---

i.am.vivian wrote:

As I showed in the earlier post, they go to the checkout where there are 2 choices, PayPal and credit card.  All they have to do is click on the credit card button.  PayPal handles the transaction, taking the money from the card and placing it in the seller's account.  PayPal is the financial operator (if I can call it that) on eBay but they just move the money around.   It looks like this:

---

Yes, I've seen this (as a buyer on eBay), and always assumed it represented a seller's merchant account.  Since I never use a credit card to make purchases on eBay, it never occurred to me that Paypal was the "facilitator".  

This, I must say, is a revelation!   I want to thank the OP for opening the discussion, and you for providing these details.  It just shows that unless sellers communicate on the boards, we might never find out about certain features, particularly if they get changed over the years.  

I'm positive this is relatively new (when I say "new", I mean in the last 4 years or so, perhaps even more recent).  I don't recall seeing this option as a buyer in previous years, and I did a fair amount of buying then.  On the other hand, eBay is constantly tinkering with checkout, so it's possible I may have missed it.  Or you may be correct that it was not in eBay's interests when it owned Paypal to make other payment options easy.  

No matter, I can see why you would want to offer it to buyers if it's this simple to choose, especially if it goes through Paypal directly to the seller's account.  

The only thing that confuses me is that Paypal itself always presents the buyer with the option of how they wish payment to be processed -- from one or another Paypal balance, credit card or bank account.  I presume the whole purpose of eBay's offering a credit card payment option on their own site is to accommodate those people who don't want -- for whatever reason -- to link their credit card to a Paypal account.  

Obviously then, offering "credit card payment" through eBay's option means the seller must not block buyers who don't have Paypal accounts. 

Lastly, have you encountered any particular downsides in offering the credit card option?  As I mentioned, I think I've only seen a couple of entries over the years on my blocked activity log (I have been blocking for non-Paypal account), so either most of my buyers have a Paypal account, or credit card holders don't visit my store.

Definitely something to consider.  

[rose-dee]

---

@i.am.vivian wrote:

No, definitely no merchant here.  No one on eBay needs to be.  Just put up your listings and pick your "blocks" depending on what bugs you the most.  I only block for too  many Unpaids.  THAT to me shows a lack of responsibility, not any of the others.  I also am not too bothered by an unpaid item. 

---

Do you mind if I ask what general area/category you sell in?  My buyers, being mostly vintage collectors, people who sew, or theatres, re-enactors, movie people, etc., tend to be exceptionally nice to deal with.  Unpaid items are extremely rare for me.  

I was also interested since you mentioned that 40% of your buyers use credit cards.  Because I've rarely seen anyone on my blocked log over the years for not having a Paypal account, I have to conclude that my own percentage wouldn't be that high.  I imagine though that if one is selling electronics or other consumer goods, a lot more buyers would want to use credit cards, especially the ones with points or miles.  

So that consideration would also factor into the decision on my part to remove the block and offer credit card processing through eBay.  

[i.am.vivian]

---

@rose-dee wrote:

I've seen this (as a buyer on eBay), and always assumed it represented a seller's merchant account.  Since I never use a credit card to make purchases on eBay, it never occurred to me that Paypal was the "facilitator".  

 I can see why you would want to offer it to buyers if it's this simple to choose, especially if it goes through Paypal directly to the seller's account.   

---

It really isn't something that any seller offers.  More that it is not something that any smart seller would want to block. 

The only reason that I can see to have that block is if the seller has a real problem with some lunatic who created a lot of fake (0) IDs and bought everything and didn't pay, just to hurt the seller.  But again, how much of that is real and how much a campfire ghost story, who's to say. 

---

@rose-dee wrote:

The only thing that confuses me is that Paypal itself always presents the buyer with the option of how they wish payment to be processed -- from one or another Paypal balance, credit card or bank account.  I presume the whole purpose of eBay's offering a credit card payment option on their own site is to accommodate those people who don't want -- for whatever reason -- to link their credit card to a Paypal account.   

---

Well yes.  People who don't want a PayPal account have made a choice.  It is not the place of eBay and certainly not the place of any eBay seller to dispense financial instruction.  Any big business would have to be out of their minds to turn that money away.  EBay is not a fool. 

The buyer  with a PayPal account will pick PayPal, and then fund the payment from a PP balance, a cc attached to PP, or an echeck. 

The buyer with the credit card picks that option and pays the same way they paid at the vitamin shop (or wherever)  the day before.

---

@rose-dee wrote:

Lastly, have you encountered any particular downsides in offering the credit card option?  As I mentioned, I think I've only seen a couple of entries over the years on my blocked activity log (I have been blocking for non-Paypal account), so either most of my buyers have a Paypal account, or credit card holders don't visit my store. 

---

Remember, the seller is not offering the credit card option.  Instead, what a seller does is decide not to block people without PayPal accounts. 

The only downside as I said earlier is there could be those who buy items with no means at all to pay.  Unpaid cases don't bother me that much and I am always nice to buyers so that I don't make anyone want to retaliate.  But keep in mind, blocking people without PP accs in no way PREVENTS unpaid items.  People who do have PP accs can still buy and not pay.  It is my opinion that the increased sales at the end of it all are worth any nuisances because there will always be nuisances no matter what you do or don't do. 

[i.am.vivian]

---

rose-dee wrote: 

My buyers, being mostly vintage collectors, people who sew, or theatres, re-enactors, movie people, etc., tend to be exceptionally nice to deal with.  Unpaid items are extremely rare for me.  

---

For  me, homey stuff and handicrafts when I've time to make them.  "Somewhat" related to your category but you are definitely more high-end.  If someone buys an heirloom christening gown it may be a rare online purchase that they are getting for their first grandbaby and wants it to be something special.  They may be a guest buyer or just a dabbler who only buys the occasional thing.  I don't use IPR in case they want to add some booties too or whatever I might have available. 

I also rarely get an unpaid case.  Don't know if blocking the chronic abusers has anything to do with that or not.  I don't get many notices about it either.  If it happens, I don't like it but I try to be nice about it and just get the job done. 

We also have a "bread & butter" ID for whatever mixed things we are finding around the house that we may as well pass along rather than leave it behind for the kids to sort out.  They don't want all this junk.  We are starting to think we could thin down our CDs and DVDs while there is still some tiny market for them.  Maybe later.  We also have VHS in our house but know that nobody has bought those in many years.  His games & camera stuff, my costume jewelry.  More things over time. 

---

rose-dee wrote:

I imagine though that if one is selling electronics or other consumer goods, a lot more buyers would want to use credit cards, especially the ones with points or miles.  

---

Hard to say.  They maybe worse nonpayers.  They may be better buyers.  Problems will always come but a lot can be avoided by sending exactly what is in the listing, not padding the shipping fee, and being very nice to buyers.  I always include a hand-written note on pretty paper of about 3 or 2 lines.  Its the psychology of it, where its more difficult to hurt someone who treats others nicely. 

The thing to do is try it out.  Take off the block.  Try it for 6 or 8 months.  You may or may not get more unpaids, you may or may not get more sales, but you will absolutely not get FEWER sales.  If after a time it has been a disaster for some reason, then put it back on.  Off, On, Off, On.  You're not limited.

[pjcdn2005]

Although I agree with Vivian that it is probably more useful for a cd seller to use ipr than it is for me to use it, I do want to emphasize that you are going to miss some multiple sales because buyers will have more difficulty accessing combined shipping unless you already have combined shipping set up.  I don't think that you do have it set up?

[recped]

I sell cd's records etc and know quite a few other that do.

NONE of them use IPR and I never had nor have every felt the need, non-payers have been maybe 1 or 2% of "sales" and that hasn't changed  at all over the past 10+ years.

As far as blocking buyers without a PayPal account, if you do that I can't buy from you (my buying accounts are not linked to PayPal), that said I have actually never encountered that block so the sellers I buy from are not using it.

What I do see a lot of are seller who block non-payers, block no PayPal accounts, block all or most International buyers, require IPR, ship with the most expensive methods etc. etc., etc. and then they complain that sales are down.

[ricarmic]

---

@i.am.vivian wrote:

---

@musicyouneed wrote:

So if a buyer pays with a credit card, does the money end up in my paypal account?  What fees am I looking at, paypal fees even though the buyer didn't use paypal?  Sorry for being so stupid but I would like to understand.  

---

Not stupid at all.  Stupid eBay sometimes. EBay makes things seem so much more complicated than they are and when they used to own PP they were really pressing that on people and so many users all got the wrong idea.  It is really not complicated at all. 

The buyer buys, gets the checkout page, clicks the cc option I showed you there, types in the card information just like on any other shop online (the ones who DO have a merchant account) and PayPal forwards the money to the seller.  All in a matter of seconds (or minutes).  You do not pay any more to receive it. 

When your items sell to a card-only user you get the exact same amount with the exact same FVFs.  If you have Immediate Payment, a card user is an immediate payer.  Blocking them is a bad idea in my opinion but up to you. 

---

One note, as far as I know the PAYPAL fees are higher when a buyer uses a credit card....... not a lot a percent or two I think.