LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

As you should all know by now, come July 6th, ebay will be charging FVF's (Final Value Fees) as follows:

List on .ca: You'll pay FVF's on the LOWER of:

Your least expensive DOMESTIC shipping option (if shipping domestically or internationally) or the actual shipping paid by your INTERNATIONAL buyer (if shipping internationally)

List on .com: You'll pay FVF's on the LOWER of:

Your least expensive shipping option to the US (if shipping to the Us or internationally) or the actual shipping paid by your DOMESTIC CANADIAN buyer (if shipping to Canada)

IF YOU WANT TO VENT ABOUT THIS, PLEASE START ANOTHER THREAD.
(I share your frustrations but would like to keep this thread focused on how to adjust for those of us who choose to continue selling on this venue).

I am starting this thread because I would like to discuss what can be done and hear what other's have decided to do.

We are not all in the same boat here mainly for three simple reasons:

1) We have different average item price points
2) We have different average shipping costs
3) We may not list on the same site

There are many different avenues that can be taken and I'd like to hear your ideas and points of view so please add your input in here!
Message 1 of 32
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

Good idea starting this thread. I haven't digested the info enough to make suggestions, yet.
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

For my part, I listened to the Town Hall Announcement and it's very clear to me that eBay is pushing strongly for shipping to be included in our prices.

Some facts about my situation:

1) I sell low ticket items (about $2-$20 items with an approximate average of $8 per item)

2) The vast majority of my items are under 500 grams and can be shipped lettermail/light packet (usually the only time parcel mail comes into play is when someone buys multiple items). My average shipping cost probably runs around $4.

At first, I thought I'd increase my prices to include the extra 11% in shipping. Let's understand here that the 1% less I am paying for FVF hardly gives me a break. Applying that to my average $8 item, I am saving 8 cents but am paying an additional 44 cents on my average shipping cost.

I would increase my item price in a heartbeat but one single factor is stopping me:

NO FVF REFUND ON SHIPPING REFUNDS
Yes you heard right. As per Griff Griffith of eBay's town hall, eBay is unable to refund the FVF's paid on a shipping overpayment which we refunded to the buyer.

This may or may not be your problem, but it is indeed mine since I do OFTEN wind up refunding shipping fees to buyers who opt for the quick checkout. I suspect to encounter this more often with the SHOPPING CART option that's in the works. I wonder though, if a FULL REFUND and a new invoice COMBINING SHIPPING will resolve this. It sure would be nice to know the nitty gritty details and make an informed choice!

But until I know this these things, this is my new plan:

Include my shipping costs in my item price and keep a specific price point. I'll lose on some individual items to get a certain price point and gain on others.

The problem with this is that my buyers are at a huge disadvantage because they will no longer benefit from combined shipping.

I looked into the combined shipping options on .com and they are just too impracticable for us Canadians. They do however, give you the option to DECREASE shipping by a set amount when multiples are purchased. I DO NOT know if this can be applied to free shipping but I am HOPING it can because I can then offer a "shipping" discount per item off of what would actually be inflated shipping due to my shipping costs PER ITEM simply being added up in a multiple purchase.

If it works, in the case of a multiple item buyer, I can guarantee that my buyer will pay enough (or more) shipping to cover my costs and will be able to offer them an extra discount off of their "free" shipping to give them an incentive to buy more. I'll also be guaranteed a perfect score for shipping fees which is where I have the most trouble (even though I consistently fall into the highest group for reasonable S&H fees).

Anyhow, this is shaping up to be my plan. Would love to hear some other ideas and if you see any holes please feel free to point them out!
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

Thank you 🙂 There's quite a bit to think of. I look forward to hearing what you come up with!
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

I did hear in the Town Hall, that when the "Shopping Cart" comes into play, sellers will be able to set something up to offer discounts on shipping for multiple purchases, before the buyer pays.
Not sure how this will work, but they said it will help with combined shipping.
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

If they are not going to refund the FVF for refunds given for overpayment of S/H, I hope they get the combined shipping glitch fixed first. I issue more refunds for that than I do for those that pay for multiple items separately.
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

I charge calculated shipping currently on a good 60% of my items as they cannot ship at a flat rate within Canada.

The only way I can see 'circumventing' the 13% FVF fees in my category (Music, Records) are one of two ways,

#1. Increase each FP listing by about 15% and keep the calculated shipping fees.

#2 List these items on .COM and charge the MAX $4.00 USD Domestic shipping (actual cheapest shipping cost is $7.91 CAD) and ADD the difference to ALL those items, meaning Canadian and International Buyers are subsidizing U.S. buyers.

While on higher price items this method is better than option#1...for lower priced items adding $4.00 USD to the FP cost could increase the price by FAR more than the 15% of option#1.

The fact that eBay isn't going to refund shipping overpayment FVFs is another troubling aspect to take into account while 'brainstorming' I too have many trigger happy buyers who buy multiples and pay for each item separately before receiving an invoice.
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping


List on .ca: You'll pay FVF's on the LOWER of:

Your least expensive DOMESTIC shipping option (if shipping domestically or internationally) or the actual shipping paid by your INTERNATIONAL buyer (if shipping internationally)

List on .com: You'll pay FVF's on the LOWER of:

Your least expensive shipping option to the US (if shipping to the Us or internationally) or the actual shipping paid by your DOMESTIC CANADIAN buyer (if shipping to Canada)




Are you sure about that? This is pasted from the FQA on the changes:

Are Final Value Fees charged on Express and International services?
Final Values Fees will be calculated on the shipping service paid by the buyer unless the buyer pays for an Express or International shipping option. If an Express service or International option is selected, the first domestic shipping service offered other than Express will be used to calculate Final Value Fees. If there are no other domestic shipping services offered, fees will be calculated on the Express service.
How can I reduce my Final Value Fees on sales to US and International Buyers?
If you can offer free shipping or lower shipping costs for your Canadian buyers than for your US or overseas buyers, consider listing your item on eBay.ca instead of eBay.com. If an US or overseas buyer purchases your item and your Canadian domestic shipping costs are lower than the international shipping cost, you'll be charged the Final Value Fee on your lowest Canadian domestic shipping service. Lower domestic shipping costs will reduce your Final Value Fees and you won't be at a disadvantage if you sell to US or overseas buyers.


I read that to mean that if you list on .com you will be charged FVF on the stated lowest US shipping offered, regardless of buyer location.

Ann
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

Things will get even more complicated with this new plan! As per usual, EBay does not consult with sellers! I have been campaigning (with no success) for allowing sellers (Power Sellers at least) to send their own invoices when buyers have finished shopping, as the automatic notices/invoices that EBay sends are almost always WRONG - providing no shipping discount for multiple purchases. As all Canadian sellers know - it's impossible to calculate a reduced S&H until you know what items a buyer has purchased. Is there any way we can campaign to be treated as proper business operators, rather than sit back and take whatever stupid new policies are forced upon us?
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

"EBay does not consult with sellers!"

Actually they did. They consulted with many of their largerst sellers who offer items at prices which include shipping (that is about 30% of all fixed price listings).

These sellers were complaining about two things:

1- FVF were too high and they wanted a reduction - they got it as FVF are being lowered across the board

2- they complained about other sellers offering lower prices with high shipping cost, making them look bad in Search results. eBay will solve their problem by charging FVF on shipping costs, therefore increasing very substantially the cost of doing business on eBay if you charge for shipping.

Those large sellers are very happy today. They were consulted and, as a result, have lower fees and less competition.

An no, eBay did NOT consult me. 😞
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

I have to get my mind around this.

Hypothetical:

A seller starts an auction on .ca for $9.99 and charges $5 for S/H to U.S. and International but gives free shipping to Canada. Seller pays FVF on only the selling price only because the lowest domestic shipping cost is free S/H. The item is shipped to the U.S. and the actual cost of shipping + pkg is only $2.75. The seller is TRS and gets a 20% discount on the FVF which was paid on purchase price only and benefits also from the reduction in FVF.

How does this negatively impact this seller who overcharges for shipping internationally but not domestically? Or am I missing something.
Message 11 of 32
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

Many American and overseas buyers may hit the back button when they see free shipping domestically and full shipping to their destination.
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

I read that to mean that if you list on .com you will be charged FVF on the stated lowest US shipping offered, regardless of buyer location.

Only if the buyer location is not less expensive for shipping. If I'm listing on .com and shipping lettermail from Canada to Canada and it's less than light packet Canada to US, I will be charged the FVF on the Canadian one as it's less expensive. This is how I'm understanding it.
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

Someone mentioned on another thread that if we refund in FULL and re-invoice, we will be charged FVF on the shipping of the combined invoice. I wanted to hear it from ebay though so went into the chat. This is the cut and paste before losing my connection:

Regarding the new FVF on shipping, I need to know if my buyer makes several payments and I refund all the payments and re-invoice with a shipping discount, which shipping amount will I get billed FVF's on: the first payment or the second?
6:07:16 PM Customercraftycatsattic
Hi Joseph...my name is Catherine
6:09:20 PM SystemSystem
Connected with Jospeh F.L.
6:09:30 PM AgentJospeh F.L.
HI Catherine, good question. It's always the first payment. It will always be based on the price after the item was sold.
6:09:35 PM AgentJospeh F.L.
Anyway, do you have other concerns which I can help you with?


I could not ask anything more as their system cut me off but this does not make any sense.
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

These are various comments from Mirium the pink.

We don't have a process for crediting back Final Value Fees on refunded shipping overages. I know that the pricing team is examinging this right now. This concern has been raised by a significant number of sellers, so it's definitely on the radar screen.

I hope that we will develop a way to issue refunds of FVF for partial shipping refunds as well. At this point, none exists but the developers are looking into it. I don't have any further information beyond that.

Mirium also said this..
Final Value Fees will be charged on shipping when buyer completes checkout. If for any reason, the original checkout is canceled, we will credit the Final Value Fee on the canceled checkout, calculate the fee based on the new checkout data and charge the new FVF.

I said the following and asked if I understood correctly.
Looks like we'll have to do a full refund quite often in order to get our FVF back, yet PayPal is now taking $0.30 each time we do that.

Her reply.
I think your understanding is correct. I don't know how often you have to refund buyers after they've checked out, then reinvoice - so I can't speak to how much of an impact this might have on your individual business. Hopefully it's more of an exception than a rule.

According to the above we will get the FVF refunded if we refund the full payment, we will not on partial refunds. Who knows she could be wrong.lol I think it's more likely the chat guy is wrong as they so often are. Maybe just wishful thinking on my part.

Keep in mind that you lose $0.30 per full payment that you refund, it might not make it worthwile.

All my items weight different amounts and have varied combined shipping amounts, even accross the same categories depending on how many are in the lot. I've no clue yet how I will handle this going forward.
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

Many American and overseas buyers may hit the back button when they see free shipping domestically and full shipping to their destination.



But would the US buyer see a Free Shipping icon if he found the Canadian listing on dotcom? I really don't think so although I have been told differently.

I looked at my own listing 380173716131

From dotCA the Free Shipping icon shows.
From dotcom the Free Shipping icon shows.

BUT

If I am in dotCA and change the shipping destination to USA90210 then switch to dotcom. (are you following me here) the FS icon disappears.

That is, if eBaydotcom believes I am a US seller, I can't see the domestic FS icon.

Let me rest a moment here. My brain hurts.

Anyway, my point is. US sellers search on dotcom. They have US zipcodes . There is no reason for a US buyer to look for another shipping price.

And frankly, if he is that anal, do you really want to deal with him?
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

Another thing to consider when raising prices to include shipping is the fact that you might have to start your auctions at a higher price resulting in higher listing fees.

eBay profits once again.
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

Thanks for that. I have no clue either. I need some more data before I can make any decision and with what will be well over 500 listings (lol I am already 2/3's into making some major revisions which will later have to be re-revised), am certainly not rushing into anything.

The goal here for me is really simple: how do I cover all the extra fees and walk off with an acceptable profit margin without turning the buyers away due to a highly inflated item price? It just doesn't sit right with me to build all my shipping into the item price which I know is what eBay is pushing for here. When doing that it takes away any discount for the buyers and that can really add up for them. I have built my reputation on fairness and am feeling the push here from eBay to deviate from that.

I am starting to wonder if it would just be easier to list on the .ca site (in order to get calculated shipping) but am really worried about the impact of that since I sell overwhelmingly to Americans.

I am also wondering if 3rd party checkout would resolve the combined shipping issue..but don't even know how that works or if it will even still be allowed. I wonder too if the buyers can pick and choose what to pay for now in their cart or later.

Another idea is to deflate my shipping cost under what the actual postage label says and build it into the price of each item. The goal with this is to have the upper edge should a customer not wait for a combined invoice. I could still refund and cover my extra fees all the while making it look like my s & h is reasonable. At the same time, the extra increase in my items won't look as bad as if I put the entire shipping cost into them.

Anyway, we have some more time to think about this. I have a trade show in June and will likely be closing my store down for about a 2 month period during the summer so will likely only start revising at that point. Thankfully I have a full time job outside of eBay now and can get by without the extra eBay income.
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

I read somewhere yesterday that 3rd party checkout will be ended later this year. If I can find it again I will post it here.

I feel the same way that you do regarding the combined shipping dilemma. Raising the price would be fine if we had all new buyers all of the time who purchased one item. However many are return customers or those who have watched us for awhile and they would be turned off by having the price suddenly jump by $2 or $3 even is shipping is "free". And they could not help but notice how much more it was costing them for multiple purchases than it did in the past.

I tried the free shipping when eBay first began pushing it but had to keep my price the same to remain competitive. It did NOT increase my sales...I just made a whole lot less money. When I put the shipping charge back on last year I went to Silver for about 3 months...and that was a first.
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LETS BRAINSTORM on how to circumvent the upcoming FVF's on shipping

I think I am going to list the small items that can be sent lettermail within Canada on .ca and probably offer free shipping because I can handle that with just a small increase in the sale price so then all my light packet out of country shipping would be FVF free, right? And my larger items that have to be sent parcel or expedited in Canada will be listed on .com because the small packet shipping is much less than a parcel rate in Canada so I would save a few coins on the FVF for shipping. But I don't know what to do about the combined shipping. I know that if I offer free shipping in Canada for one item that my buyers will buy one...and one....and one and not pay any shipping and I will be packaging one...and one...and one and my packaging costs will sky rocket not to mention the time involved. So I just don't know what to do about combined shipping at the moment. I have already adjusted my prices to cover the high CAD and I am not sure I can raise my prices again so I guess I am going to lose with those fees. My items average $5 and there is no way this change will see me saving fees.

I do have a question.. Why is it only sellers that seem concerned about these changes. I am a buyer too and of course items are going to go up in price to cover the fees so I am concerned about having to spend more for my supplies.
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