Not responsible for items that are not insured

[coxengines]

Why does that sentence (or similar) appear in so many listings? And I mean listings from sellers with 1,000's of FB.

Bluff?
Ignorance?

Or is there something that I don't get here?

[treasure-pot]

Bluff?
Ignorance?

Maybe a little of both. It holds absolutely no water with PayPal or legal authorities. A buyer is absolutely entitled to get what he/she pays for regardless of a seller's wish to pass the buck to someone else.

Bill
treasure-pot

Co-Author of

[whoscloset]

Or is there something that I don't get here?

It's not something you don't get...it's something THEY don't get. Put a disclaimer in all you want, it isn't going to prevent the customer from getting their money back.

[coxengines]

Well, that's the way I always saw it and the very reason I clearly state on all my listings that insurance IS included.

Makes me look good (no pun intended) in the buyer's eyes without actually offering anything more than the sellers who choose to limit how well buyers perceive them.

Xena

[long_hitter]

It's a simple way to charge people money for insurance and supplement income as opposed to charging more for the item (no ebay fees for that). Bottom line is, if the item does not arrive paypal will cover (and charge the seller)

[treasure-pot]

That might be the case in Canada where Canada Post automatically includes $100 of insurance for most services. Not so in the USA where USPS charges additional for insurance on most services other than Express Mail.

http://www.usps.com/insurance/

It really falls to the seller in any event to ensure that he/she is protected in the vent an item is lost/stolen/broken. Allowing buyers to decide if they want to protect a seller against a possible claim makes no sense at all. Sellers should be building the cost of insurance into their selling prices or shipping charges.

Bill
treasure-pot

Co-Author of

[purse_of_the_legionary]

Xena,

I know it is bluff to say that "seller is not responsible if buyer refuse insurance". But what would the solution for small items international shipments anyway ? Nobody wants to pay $50 to get a $100 item shipped !

I can't find another option for international shipment. But so far, I had only one issue on 550 feedback, which prove it is a good idea to say ""seller is not responsible if buyer refuse insurance"... It works.

[purse_of_the_legionary]

Xena,

I just looked at your items description, and noticed that you offered lettermail, which is not insured. I was surprised, as I thought you would only ship with insurance and tracking number, after reading your comment here... Using or not the sentence "seller is not responsible" could only help...

[coxengines]

Purse,

Please see my multiple comments on another post, where I replied to you.

The only times I ever have tracking is parcels to Canada and the USA (and there only if over 1KG). It's a CP default setting.

Using the "sentence" in my humble opinion, is a negative, akin to "don't park here" at a B&M store.

I have been self-employed in sales and marketing for 30 years now and it has become my understanding that, when a seller says "not responsible" it somehow implies that the buyer is therefore responsible - and people don't like taking responsibility and often go the path of least resistance.

From a psychological standpoint: The buyer is unduly motivated to move on to a more accommodating seller. Since insurance (because paypal is on the buyer's side) does not cost you anything, why not change how buyers perceive you as a seller?

Of course, if you have no competition with your product, that would be another story...

Xena

[numero_1]

scares people into paying $1.50 extra for insurance ?
this way seller send happy

[ameroindustries]

Hahah To true ^^^^

[wesycool]

I currently have an issue with a customer about this right now. This issue is now going to ebay trust and security to see if the seller (me) have to refund the buyer (my customer) because the item was lost in delivery with no insurance nor tracking number. According to ebay, they will verify the item description to make sure if the buyer is eligible for the refund. Because I wrote that regular shipping service is not eligible for a refund when the item was lost, I should not give a refund. However, that is up to ebay trust and security to decide. As for me, I was allow to report a buyer policy violation just because I wrote policies in my description like the buyer is responsible for lost items with no insurance. I believe it makes a big difference just to put those details in the description.

[coxengines]

Wes,

It will be interesting to hear how this transpires. Please keep us updated.

I suspect that you will lose, as eBay and Paypal are, technically, separate entities. Paypal's rules are very clear.

I am going by the premise that your buyer paid via Paypal.

If you win this it would invalidate Paypal's whole protection policy, as sellers would just insert a disclaimer on their listings.

I can't see this being decided in your favour but, hey, what do I really know?

Xena

[coxengines]

Wes,

This from your FB (negative entry):

Jamais reçu l'objet et rejette la responsabilité sur l'acheteur . (Never received the item and made it the buyer's responsibility)

If this is the buyer you are referring to then, why for $8 (incl. postage) you would go to such great lengths is a bit difficult to grasp.

Unless, of course, you are trying to set a precedent...

Xena

[wesycool]

Actually the buyer didn't pay via Paypal since I refuse the payment because to the unconfirmed address. The buyer sent the payment via a method that I never heard of. He says that it is very popular in Europe. He just put all the information on this site and this site will send me a check by mail. I accept it since the check cleared, however I was never really confortable with it. I asked for money order because most of the time the address is writen by hand. This buyer asked for my bank account one time so it can transfer the money immediately. I think that just by asking for my bank account already violated ebay policy. What do you think?

[wesycool]

To me feedback is not the most important thing. I have a lot fo loyal customers who often comes purchasing, and I do receive special request from those loyal customers when i'm out of stock. In fact, if I were to care about my feedback, I can easily refund the money to that guy since the item only cost me like $0.35(item) + $1.55(shipping) + $0.86 (ebay fees).

The reason that I would go this far even if it affects my reputation is for the respect I deserve. I refused twice his Paypal payment and explained to him that I only accepts Paypal if he has a confirmed address or that he purchases expedited shipping. I even explain to him that it would be safer with expedited shipping since it has insurance and tracking number. Not only he insist standard delivery, he even ask me to send it via lettermail using a reinforce envelop and it will be fine. When the package is lost, he complains that I should insure it and that the price is too high and all bunch of crap. He even went to the extreme of saying that by the interational trading law, the seller is responsible for delivering safely the items to their customers.

If he want to talk about law, he already violated the most basic law.

[treasure-pot]

the seller is responsible for delivering safely the items to their customers

He is right.

[wesycool]

lol treasure-pot, I know it is true. That's why I believe it is important to put words like "Not responsible for items that are not insured" in our item description.

[sunrunnerultra]

Doesn't it make more sense to just price your shipping with insurance included right from the start? We all know there's no question about responsibility. We all know we're responsible to get it delivered. All my listings have enough to cover any additional insurance needed built into the shipping price, and my listings all state "insurance included". That way, there's no option. And if I decide to ship something lettermail or light packet, it becomes self insured, because I'm still responsible. I know if I buy something and insurance is optional, I never pay extra for it, because the seller is responsible whether I pay or not.
Ultimately, it's the seller who needs to make sure items are insured, not the buyer. To me, when you say insurance is optional, it just means free insurance for the buyer.....PayPal will cover him regardless.
Mark

[treasure-pot]

sunrunnerultra, yes, especially since Canada Post includes $100 on insurance at no additional charge for most of their services. I'm still not certain why many sellers are charging extra for insurance when they are shipping by small packet or Expedited USA (for instance). Well, I have a pretty good idea but I don't like to think that.

There are still so many sellers that think the small print about not being responsible will save them in the event of a dispute. eBay is quite capable of educating sellers that they are indeed responsible by means of a mass mailing. After all, they know who the sellers are just as they know who does not sell (otherwise I wouldn't continually get promotions on my buying accounts exclusively offering me 5 free listings if I start selling).

eBay needs to get a little more pro-active in working with sellers. There are changes in the wind - eBay wants to retain the best of the best sellers while continuing to work towards weeding out the bad apples. They could easily contribute towards creating better sellers by offering a little education here and there.