eBay

pierrelebel · ‎06-13-2013

On June 12th, the first post during the "Weekly Board Hour" read:

Good afternoon.

I would like to follow-up on the questions I raised last week about eBay’s Global Shipping Program (GSP).

As stated, eBay does not provide a breakdown of the so-called “import charges”. Often, the number does not seem to make sense based on what buyers know about applicable taxes.

Why can’t eBay provide a detailed breakdown of those “estimated import charges”? How much of it is actually calculated for duty (if applicable)? For taxes (GST/HST/PST) if applicable? Handling fee? Brokerage fee? Additional shipping charge (from PB distribution centre to buyer)? Etc…

Also, have you considered opening a discussion board manned by Pitney Bowes personnel to answer questions on their program? This was done by eBay way back in 1999/2000 for PayPal well before eBay purchased the payment system. PayPal staff was allowed access to eBay’s board to answer technical and policy questions.

A question that keeps coming back is: how do Canadian buyers get their PB “import charges” refunded if the transaction is cancelled? The seller refunds the purchase price, that is easy. However, how do Canadian buyers get their money back from PB? Similar question: how do Canadian buyers get their duty and taxes refunded should the goods be returned to seller in the USA?

Post # 4 from eBay.ca: "These are all great questions for which I'll have to source answers from a colleague from the GSP team."

Post # 29 from eBay.ca: "I'm still waiting for an answer from my US colleague Pierre, I'll post the answers here when I have them and notify you via email."

When can we expect answers?

=============================================================

Then other questions were asked on post #22

"Another question, if I may, on the subject of GSP.

eBay staffers are also eBay buyers.

Have any of you in the Toronto office actually made an eBay purchase from American sellers offering GSP?

What was your experience? Was it faster? Was it more expensive? Was the cost of tax(es) properly broken down? Did Pitney Bowes provide you with their GST/HST or business registration number as required by Canadian law?

Finally, having gone through the experience, would you do it again?"

No reply. Does it suggest nobody on staff at eBay.ca ever used GSP ? The silence speaks for itself.

marnotom! · ‎06-30-2013

@rosscd57 wrote:
It seems to me that the easiest way to avoid this problem is:
just not to purchase anything from the USA that uses GPS. Someone out their in the ether of eBay will eventually figure out that sales and fees are being lost.

This ain't rocket science - most of us have it figured out.

Well put. I really don't get why so many Canadian buyers seem to be taking the GSP as some sort of personal affront. It's a simple matter of voting with your browser's "back" button. In fact, it's actually pretty apparent in search results what listings are using the GSP so a buyer doesn't have to click on them and view them in the first place, unlike listings where the seller is using over-the-top mailing methods for a ten dollar item in the name of "protection".

Like you say, not rocket science.

bb_cool_stuff · ‎06-30-2013

Well put also.

The kvetching in regards to the GSP is getting a little tiring.

A good point was made though "Will refunds on the GSP be forthcoming should a buyer return the item to the seller? "

raphael@ebay.com · ‎07-05-2013

@pierrelebel wrote:

Two weeks later.....

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Weekly-Board-Hour-Session/June-26th-Weekly-Board-Hour/m-p/125915#U125915

"The only outstanding question to which I promised an answer was "what happens to the import charges if a buyer returns a GSP item for refund?" I still don't have the answer to this and will follow up with it as soon as I have it, as promised."

Why do I bother? Staffers and managers do not even read the questions 😞

Hi pierrelebel,

I have finally received word from the person I had been seeking answers from, whom it turns out was on vacation for the past couple of weeks.

What happens if a GSP transaction is cancelled?

Any additional international shipping and import charges should be refunded automatically to the buyer when the Seller cancels the transaction after PB determines the items cannot be exported due to overweight or any import/export restrictions. If for any reason the Buyer does not get their money back in these circumstances they should contact eBay Customer Service to process the refund.

Now remains your other question regarding the break down of the costs. I wasn't satifsied with the answer I got on that one so I'm escalating. I'll come back with more informabtion as soon as I have it.

Thanks for your patience.

chiboukiqc · ‎07-05-2013

I just don't buy anything from a seller using GSP.

But what i do is send a short and polite note to the seller to let him know why i'm not buying from him...

I think it's the best way to fight this nonsense....

Just my 2 cents....

pjcdn2005 · ‎07-06-2013

raphael@ebay.com wrote:
@pierrelebel wrote:
Two weeks later.....

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Weekly-Board-Hour-Session/June-26th-Weekly-Board-Hour/m-p/125915#U125915

"The only outstanding question to which I promised an answer was "what happens to the import charges if a buyer returns a GSP item for refund?" I still don't have the answer to this and will follow up with it as soon as I have it, as promised."

Why do I bother? Staffers and managers do not even read the questions 😞
Hi pierrelebel,

I have finally received word from the person I had been seeking answers from, whom it turns out was on vacation for the past couple of weeks.

What happens if a GSP transaction is cancelled?
Any additional international shipping and import charges should be refunded automatically to the buyer when the Seller cancels the transaction after PB determines the items cannot be exported due to overweight or any import/export restrictions. If for any reason the Buyer does not get their money back in these circumstances they should contact eBay Customer Service to process the refund.

Now remains your other question regarding the break down of the costs. I wasn't satifsied with the answer I got on that one so I'm escalating. I'll come back with more informabtion as soon as I have it.

Thanks for your patience.

Raphael, Your answer refers to just one scenario in which PB cancels the transaction. But that wasn't part of the original question. What happens when the buyer returns an item? Do they receive their shipping charges and/or import charges from PB? Or what if they have paid and then the seller cancels because they are out of stock? Or what if the item is lost and not received? Or received broken? Obviously in those situations the seller will have to refund their part but what about the charges to PB?

pjcdn2005 · ‎07-06-2013

It looks some of those questions were answered on the following thread although it doesn't look like they were answered by someone at ebay.

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Buyer-Central/Refund-of-GSP-fees-in-refund-situation/m-p/128741/highligh...

cumos55 · ‎07-06-2013

Many questions and comments about the GSP on the UK and Australian sites on eBay.

The biggest question appears to be who is charging what ....how much ....and why.....

There is no breakdown as to the individual components that make up postage and import charges....Something that is being questioned here in Canada.

A most interesting comment about Canadians on eBay Australia........

Canadians are even angrier about it than us I'd say

marnotom! · ‎07-06-2013

Why should Australians be as angry or angrier than us about the GSP? Australia has an extremely high tax-free threshold for personal imports. Most purchases they make on eBay aren't going to be subject to taxes. And after a bit of initial kerfuffle, it looks as though PB doesn't charge anything under "import charges" for these tax-free purchase.

tobyshitzu · ‎07-06-2013

Its only a handfull of Canadians (or others) who have even commented on it. You have a few on com who have made an enormous number of posts about it (some of which are very misinformed), but its a trvial number among buyers on ebay.

asyahijab · ‎07-08-2013

Just purchased item with GSP. Unfortunately I forgot to change my address since I have just moved to different apartment when I submitted the payment.

Contact the seller, but he can not fix the problem, so he refunded my payment and canceled the transaction.

In email of refund notification said I may get refund as well from Pitney Bowes Inc for the shipping and the import fee, but I have not got it yet

It is not yet 24 hours since we agree to cancel the transaction. I will wait for 1/2more business days I guess.

raphael@ebay.com · ‎07-09-2013

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Raphael, Your answer refers to just one scenario in which PB cancels the transaction. But that wasn't part of the original question. What happens when the buyer returns an item? Do they receive their shipping charges and/or import charges from PB? Or what if they have paid and then the seller cancels because they are out of stock? Or what if the item is lost and not received? Or received broken? Obviously in those situations the seller will have to refund their part but what about the charges to PB?

My answer actually covers all of these. If a sale is cancelled by the seller (buyer returning an item counts as a cancelled sale) the buyer should get refunded for the PB fees as well. If that doesn't happen automatically, the buyer should contact CS to get the refund processed.

pjcdn2005 · ‎07-09-2013

raphael@ebay.com wrote:
@pjcdn2005 wrote:
Raphael, Your answer refers to just one scenario in which PB cancels the transaction. But that wasn't part of the original question. What happens when the buyer returns an item? Do they receive their shipping charges and/or import charges from PB? Or what if they have paid and then the seller cancels because they are out of stock? Or what if the item is lost and not received? Or received broken? Obviously in those situations the seller will have to refund their part but what about the charges to PB?
My answer actually covers all of these. If a sale is cancelled by the seller (buyer returning an item counts as a cancelled sale) the buyer should get refunded for the PB fees as well. If that doesn't happen automatically, the buyer should contact CS to get the refund processed.

I see. Obviously I didn't interpret your words in the same way as you do.

You said

"Any additional international shipping and import charges should be refunded automatically to the buyer when the Seller cancels the transaction after PB determines the items cannot be exported due to overweight or any import/export restrictions. If for any reason the Buyer does not get their money back in these circumstances they should contact eBay Customer Service to process the refund."

To me, your original reply says that the buyer gets their fees refunded when a sale is cancelled because PB has decided that the items cannot be shipped by them. I don't see where it says that the same is true for other situations when the seller cancels the transaction. Thank you for explaining.

So to clarify....you're saying that what is needed for the buyer to receive their fees back from PB is simply that the seller has to cancel the transaction? So if the seller refunds and cancels because the item wasn't what they expected, or if the seller is out of stock or cancels for any other reason, the system is set up so that the buyer will be refunded for all import and shipping fees paid to PB and that PB won't be keeping any fees at all?

You mentioned that this should be done automatically and that if it isn't, the buyer should contact CS. Is this clearly spelled out for both buyer and seller? Based on comments made on the boards,neither party seem too clear about that. Also, is contact information going to be provided for the buyer as it seems that many people find it almost impossible to find a phone number or any way to contact ebay.

pierrelebel · ‎07-09-2013

Raphael - according to written policies on eBay.com:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/shipping-globally.html

You didn't receive an item or the item was not as described in the listing

If you did not receive an item or the item was not as described in the listing, contact the seller. Many issues can be solved with a simple conversation. If the seller isn't able or willing to resolve the problem, you can open a buyer protection case in the Resolution Center. Learn more about what do to if you don't receive an item or it doesn't match the seller's description.

You want to return an item

If you want to return an item, check to see if the seller accepts international returns by reviewing the return policy in the listing. If the seller does accept international returns, contact the seller.

NOWHERE does eBay indicate what a Canadian buyer is to do when an item "not as described" is received under GSP.

asyahijab · ‎07-09-2013

To Raphael:

How long should we wait Phitney Bowes Inc to refund our payment automatically since the seller cancel the transaction because of we purchase in error. I mean after how many business day should we contact CS to get the refund if it didn't happened.?

It happened to me actually. I bought an item but I forgot to change my address when submitted payment, so the seller cancel the the transaction. It is already 1 business day, but I haven't received refund from Pitney.

chimera148 · ‎07-10-2013

@toby**bleep**zu wrote:
Its only a handfull of Canadians (or others) who have even commented on it. You have a few on com who have made an enormous number of posts about it (some of which are very misinformed), but its a trvial number among buyers on ebay.

It's easy to do a search of the "Global Shipping Program" or "GSP" on the .com boards .

Many and most international buyers and US sellers recommend to stay away from the GSP.
Maybe it's a benefit to some sellers, endorsing the program and not in the GSP, that their competition is enrolled and receive the negative consequences.

As a buyer, it's easy to avoid the GSP right now, but for some GSP sellers it can be very damaging to their feedback and sales.

Maybe the GSP will lower their shipping and import charges, but for me it's still too risky with the associated refund complications and extra handling.

Buying on ebay since 2003 and have never been charged any import duties.

chimera148 · ‎07-10-2013

@chimera148 wrote:
Buying on ebay since 2003 and have never been charged any import duties.

If I am ever charged taxes with the CP collection fee the funds will be received in Canada.

marnotom! · ‎07-10-2013

@chimera148 wrote:
@chimera148 wrote:
Buying on ebay since 2003 and have never been charged any import duties.
If I am ever charged taxes with the CP collection fee the funds will be received in Canada.

And the tax component of the GSP import charges are remitted to the Canadian treasury. What's the difference, really?

akball2 · ‎07-15-2013

Agreed, GSP is probably as cheap or cheaper than UPS (or FedEx, or Purolator, etc). However, anyone who has experience using eBay would NEVER purchase an item where the seller plans on using any of these methods of shipment. They all collect fake taxes and duties that the government does not collect through its own agencies: USPS and Canada Post. Then they charge a fee for the "service" of collecting taxes that aren't owed but also claim that the item will be expedited through customs. Pitney-Bowes is charging for a service to fix a problem that does not exist. USPS International Priority or Expedited provides tracking that shows items pass through customs in about an hour. The GSP estimates are more than double shipping by USPS and often the "estimate" jumps by 10% after the purchase has been made.

Previously: Seller (less than $200) -> USPS -> Canada Post -> Postman to my door. (Tracking all the way for $28).

Seller (item more than $200) -> USPS -> Canada Post -> Postman to my door or Canada Post outlet to collect tax plus $7 service fee).

GSP: Seller -> Pitney Bowes (tax, duties, fees added) -> Contract Shipper -> Delivery. (Costs vary dramatically however $60 for a $100 item seems the usual).

Pitney-Bowes has cut itself into the eBay business as a middleman to make a profit when no one is using their postage meters anymore to send snail mail. They are selling a service no one needs.

If you are interested in purchasing an item from a US seller and they subscribe to GSP, ask if they will accept a bid but ship by USPS and explain why GSP is a scam. Most sellers would not know what the program is about or the increased costs. If they will not ship by USPS politely explain that you will not be placing a bid on their item or with any other seller that has subscribed to GSP.

Hopefully, this program will be be seen for what it is and Pitney-Bowes will be sent packing.

marnotom! · ‎07-16-2013

@akball2 wrote:
Hopefully, this program will be be seen for what it is and Pitney-Bowes will be sent packing.

I've been researching Smartphones on and off for the past few weeks, and invariably the total cost seems to be less expensive with the GSP than if the item were sent by USPS's Priority or Express service with Canada Post collecting the taxes due.

I think what we should be hoping is that:

1. Sellers figure out when it is appropriate to offer the GSP and when it's better to use the mail

2. Pitney Bowes and/or the Global Shipping Team improves its customer service and buyers don't have to fight tooth and nail for a refund of import charges for a sale not completed for whatever reason

3. U.S. sellers don't feel they're being forced or bamboozled into accepting the program.

lady.stark · ‎07-16-2013

@chimera148 wrote:
Buying on ebay since 2003 and have never been charged any import duties.

You are VERY lucky then, because I've been a member since 2000 and I'm always charged 3 or 4 times per year (on average, sometimes more, sometimes less).