Return shipping from Czech Rebublic

[007steveb16]

A buyer purchased a game from me that was the wrong region code for his Xbox 360 system.

My ad had the proper information listed. The buyer is at fault for not buying within his proper region code.

Buyer has initiated a return based upon this reason, "It's defective or doesn't work"

Am I seriously on the hook for return shipping?

The buyers "reason" for return is not true. He made the mistake.

Is there no recourse on the return shipping situation on this?

I of course will fully return the original item/shipping costs once received back.

[maximus7001]

You never should have had his or any other country that does not use NTSC region 1 on your sell to countries and certainly should have inquired about this before shipping.

This is your fault in the first place. Refund, forget about any return and move on.

[pjcdn2005]

Technically you are supposed to pay return shipping because the buyer chose a not as described reason. But you may have some luck getting it changed to a regular return if you phone ebay and if the buyer has written in messages or in the case that it didn't work because he bought the wrong type of game for his machine and if your listing is clear that the game is for a specific region.

[mr.elmwood]

Return rules are they are supposed to ship with tracking which will be hideously expensive.

It is true, the game does not work. The why is a separate issue.

I would simply refund and make this all go away.

[tobyshitzu]

"You never should have had his or any other country that does not use NTSC region 1 on your sell to countries and certainly should have inquired about this before shipping."

Completely disagree.  Having shipped piles of games  I know there is a huge market for out of region games, including ones that wont work on Euro, AUS or Asian consoles.  People have told me they bought a N American console to be able to play a single game.  Some have them because games are cheaper here.    Some have them because they were here and moved.   I sent NA region protected game to a Russian embassy in another European country 

Its further complicated that  all sony and large majority of microsoft games since xbox 360 came out will work around the world regardless of how they are labeled.  While some will work between two regions and not the third, while some are single region only.  No nintendo games work out of region other then DS and GBA, but there is a large market for them anyway.  There are a few websites in Asia and the channel islands that do huge business in selling out of region games  around the world 

When I sell one I know won't work on their regions console, I ask.  And frequently they don't answer, for days, leaving one to wonder whether to risk mailing on that won't work, or risk complaint or claim for slow delivery.    Made harder since you can't see what else they are buying.   Usually they know what they are doing and want it, occasionally they don't.   The few times I've ended up sending one to someone who don't want one I've considered it their problem.  If they file a claim claiming its defective there isn't much you can do

[maximus7001]

Asking for trouble by selling out of region but as I posted if you contact every buyer before shipping asking if they are aware of the game being locked to NTSC 1. Buyers dont read before bidding/buying. You have to suspect this or you will get defects and loose your games.

[ladybug2785]

Noticed you don't describe much in your listings. Also noticed that you are selling DVD movies to out of region countries as well with this in your description

"guaranteed to work or your money back plus return shipping costs. "

You say nothing about  NTSC region 1 DVD not being compatible with their other region player. You are setting yourself up for trouble with your practices.

We sometimes sell video games, dvd movies and cell phones, all bad items for being region restricted. We have learned from bad experience that selling out of region is asking for trouble. If you are selling out of region which we sometimes do for fanatic stuff like anime you need to contact each buyer to make sure they know what they are buying before you ship it. About half the time the reply is "oops we did not know", even when it was fully disclosed in the description. At least 50% of everybody does not know what a region is, it is not common knowledge. If you don't believe it go out on the streets and ask random people like they do on cash cab.

[tobyshitzu]

pretty certain all his listings have the region code, as do everyone elses who lists games in the catalog.  Granted the region code hasn't determined wether they will work on an out of region consode for a long time

[ladybug2785]

That does not help if the buyer does not know what a region code is. Is it really worth the defects and negs that can come from this.

[007steveb16]

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@maximus7001 wrote:
You never should have had his or any other country that does not use NTSC region 1 on your sell to countries and certainly should have inquired about this before shipping.

This is your fault in the first place. Refund, forget about any return and move on.

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This isn't about the refund. I accept that part always.

This is about the return system and why eBay cannot have a recognition policy in place to see that a buyer is making a return claim based upon an invalid reason.

[007steveb16]

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@mr.elmwood wrote:
Return rules are they are supposed to ship with tracking which will be hideously expensive.

It is true, the game does not work. The why is a separate issue.

I would simply refund and make this all go away.

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I know things well enough that I'm making the refund and paying anyways.

Been doing this long enough to know.

Just unfortunate that a buyer is allowed to use a false reason.

[007steveb16]

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You say nothing about  NTSC region 1 DVD not being compatible with their other region player. You are setting yourself up for trouble with your practices.

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Been doing just fine I think since 2005, thanks

[sylviebee]

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@007steveb16 wrote:

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@mr.elmwood wrote:
Return rules are they are supposed to ship with tracking which will be hideously expensive.

It is true, the game does not work. The why is a separate issue.

I would simply refund and make this all go away.

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I know things well enough that I'm making the refund and paying anyways.

Been doing this long enough to know.

Just unfortunate that a buyer is allowed to use a false reason.

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Then don't agree to the return and see what happens.

I'm thinking that the onus would then be on the buyer to prove that the item was in fact not as described.

Why not make it your test case since you seem to feel very strongly about it?

[pjcdn2005]

The buyer does not have to prove that the item is not as described.  The onus is on the seller and just based on other situations that I've read about, the reps usually tell the seller to accept the return and appeal it later. There is also the danger of standing your ground and then ending up with an unresolved claim. You aren't allowed very many of those so it is a good idea to pick your fights carefully.

[sylviebee]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

The buyer does not have to prove that the item is not as described.  The onus is on the seller and just based on other situations that I've read about, the reps usually tell the seller to accept the return and appeal it later. There is also the danger of standing your ground and then ending up with an unresolved claim. You aren't allowed very many of those so it is a good idea to pick your fights carefully.

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Never worry much about this stuff, and these threads go on and on and on.............

BUT:  If the seller uses the "other" option and asks the buyer for proof that the item was not as described, what happens next?

BTW:  We're all aware of the need to pick fights carefully by now.  I am no exception 

[pjcdn2005]

Yep, they can go on and on and somewhere along the line the subject usually gets changed too. lol

I'm not sure which 'other' choice you are referring to. As far as I know, when a buyer puts in a return request and the reason is a nad one, the seller has a choice of:

Refunding after the return and paying for return shipping.

Refunding without a return

Offering a partial refund.  I'm sure that I recently read that the seller has one opportunity to offer the partial refund. If the buyer doesn't accept it then the buyer gets a refund in full and gets to keep the item. I can't find that right now though so can't confirm it.

[pjcdn2005]

Just for info in case anyone is interested.

http://pages.ebay.ca/ebay-money-back-guarantee/how-to-help.html

(info for buyers)

• What determines if an item is “not as described”?

  An item is not as described if it’s different from what the seller described in the listing. This includes, for example:

  • You received a different item or different version of the item. 
  • The condition of the item is wrong (for example, the listing said “new” and the item has obviously been used. 
  • The item is missing parts or components (for example, a camera kit was supposed to include a tripod but it wasn’t included). 
  • The item was defective when you first tried to use it (for example, an electronic item didn’t turn on). 
  • The item is counterfeit. 
  • The item was damaged during shipping.

   Sellers Protection Policy

  http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/seller-protection.html

  If a buyer reports that an item isn't as described

  If the buyer starts a return request because an item isn't as described in the listing, and then asks us to step in and help, you may be protected from losing a case if you provide clear documentation that the item was described accurately and consistently in the listing.

  Examples:

  1. A buyer requests to return an item for a refund because an item isn't new or has minor scratches, but the listing clearly and consistently describes the item as used.

  2. A buyer opens a return request because of a defect in an item, but the defect was accurately described in the listing.

  3. A buyer opens a return request because they didn't want the item, but the item was accurately described in the listing.

   

[sylviebee]

It seems you can reply to the buyer and I was referring to that option as "other."

What if you reply to the buyer and ask for proof that the item was not as described?

I can guess at several things that might happen next, but it could go a number of ways.

One possibility is that this might eventually leed to eBay stepping in as you stated above.

Just thought since Steve seems to really care he might want to pursue it.  Me (care?)"  Not so much!

[pjcdn2005]

You're right, I forgot about that option and as you said, that could go a number of ways.

[toff3]

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@mr.elmwood wrote:
Return rules are they are supposed to ship with tracking which will be hideously expensive.
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Czech postal rate for a Small Packet (same size limitations as at Canada Post but considered lettermail as in every country except Canada) weighing up to 500 g sent Registered Airmail (includes Certificate of Posting and of Delivery) to Canada is 200 Czech koruna or under $10 Canadian.

Tom