feedback revision

[ryansulovesbeer]

hi,

i sold an item, buyer received it, immediately claimed it was fake, opened a return case

before any further discussion, he had already left me negative feedback claiming it was fake. this tainted my 100% positive feedback reputation

not only were his claims based on measurements and things that were visible in the photographs provided, i took it upon myself to find 3rd party information and proof, also pointing out discrepancies in his story

due to the poor buyer favoured return system, i could not even allow eBay to intervene and make a decision based on the evidence i had gathered

whether the buyer honestly realized he was wrong, or felt that i had exposed his scam, he canceled the return request of his own will

since then, i have done many things in an attempt to have the feedback corrected, and my honest reputation restored:

1) i have contacted him through eBay messages to ask him nicely to revise his feedback since he no longer believes it is fake, to which he did not respond.

2) i sent the formal revision request through the eBay form, which did nothing as it simply expired and it told me i should respect the buyer's decision?!?

3) i have reported the buyer to eBay using the form as leaving abusive feedback to have it removed, as he did it before any conclusive agreement or final decision about the item's authenticity was made, and he refuses to reply, let alone change his feedback. eBay did not contact me or have the feedback removed

4) in the eBay customer service feedback survey, i explained my situation. nothing happened

my question is, what else is there that i can do? how can we as sellers protect ourselves? 

what is stopping people from buying your items, being completely happy with it, and leaving abusive negative feedback? there seems to be no repercussion at all for the buyer. they could leave feedback stating any lie they want, such as it being fake, it smelled like dog feces, you overcharged shipping, you were rude, etc. 

i sell 2nd hand designer clothing, and have been doing so for nearly a decade. now i have a single negative feedback saying i sell fake things. this obviously unfairly affects my ability to continue to sell items, as the buyer did not even truly believe the item was counterfeit

[pierrelebel]

Unfortunately, calling the buyer "LIAR" in your feedback response does not lead to a friendly resolution, does it?  That may explain why the buyer refused the request to remove or revise the feedback.

At this point, all you can do is move on.  The negative feedback will disappear in twelve months.

Few buyers would pay much attention to one negative feedback.  They may pay more attention to the comment "LIAR" answering the feedback.  Folks generally do not like to be called "LIAR" and many may simply hit the back button when they see that comment.

"what is stopping people from buying your items, being completely happy with it, and leaving abusive negative feedback? "

You only had one such bad experience.  Do not worry too much about "what could....".

Good Luck.

[2014sportsterguy]

That is a prime reason feedback is flaweld, you must have a email trail from your vindictive buyer let the right people at EBay see it, proof that your buyer is wrong.
if EBay does not remove it after seeing proof then they are just as vindictive as the buyer, big deal so you wrote buyer lied still no reason not to remove proven false feedbacks.

[pierrelebel]

"still no reason not to remove proven false feedbacks. "

???

How do you know it was "proven false"?

eBay has no way to know.  Their feedback removal policy does not cover assumptions and opinions.

In this specific case, the seller assumes that the item is genuine because the buyer dropped his claim with PayPal.  He may be right... or not.  I do not know... you do not know... eBay does not know.

By calling the buyer a "LIAR" it eliminated whatever goodwill may have existed.

And life does go on.

[2014sportsterguy]

Pierre, my point was if the seller had saved buyers email that said the buyer realized the widgit was after all real not fake.

That is logical proof to remove false and proven feedbacks, the reply by seller was harsh but not related to facts, yea life goes on......

[ryansulovesbeer]

i guess i could have said something nicer, but i honestly don't think it would make a difference in the eyes of the buyer. i replied to the feedback because i still had active listings. i did not want other potential buyers to believe his lie

eBay does have a way to know. they can access the records. it was one of the new eBay returns (not through PayPal) in which everything is documented.  how it works is that the buyer opens a claim, we have a few days to talk to each other, and supposedly after said date either me or the buyer can escalate to have an eBay employee intervene (similar to the PayPal claim process). however, only he can escalate it. he did not escalate it. after days of silence after me proving that he is just making stuff up, he simply canceled it with no explanation provided in the text box.

this is no different than other claims i have had in the past where my only evidence was in eBay messages, which i won because an employee took the time to investigate it. i recall a specific one where a buyer tried to do a bank chargeback months later (basis of it was not him who ordered it), but i won because it was in my eBay messages that i asked him to confirm his name and address before shipping it out

these are more specifics about the case:

1) his basis for claiming it was fake was that the measurement is different from a similar item he owns (not the exact same one). i stated i had provided clear measurements in the listing, and asked if my measurements were false, or if he simply did not read the listing. he did not say anything about this after

2) he then stated that the existence of an additional Japanese domestic care label sewn on to the original manufacturer care label makes it not authentic. i state that this second tag is shown in a clear 1600x1200 photo, and asked if he did not look at the provided photos. he did not say anything about this

3) he then stated that it was the poor stitching of the second tag on to the original tag that makes it fake. i state again that this white stitch thread is also shown in the same photo. he said nothing and went silent at this point

4) i asked a 3rd party expert group for the brand to confirm its authenticity. i screencapped it and provided the ebay user names of members that he or eBay could ask to verify. he said nothing

5) i got an owner & administrator to message him on yet another 3rd party group site which he was a member of, to verify my item and vouch for my reputation as a seller. he said nothing

i did not assume it was genuine. i purchased it myself in Japan from a flagship store. not to mention the slew of evidence i gathered and 3rd party testimony that vouched for the item's authenticity

eBay has access to all of this. i have pleaded with eBay in the report a buyer form to investigate the claim details and see for themselves that his feedback is wrong and malicious. calling him a liar (which he is) should not affect an eBay employee's decision

this is my first negative feedback but it is not the first problem i have had. i don't think anyone is so lucky that selling for so many years they are claim free. i do not believe there is any doubt that this system is very broken.

i had a claim early this year where after 30 days of receiving a white shirt, the buyer opened a PayPal claim and said that he had not worn it at all, and there are pink stains on the armpits. i called PayPal and explained that there were no stains when i sold and shipped it. they honestly said that i cannot prove it because i had not taken explicit photographs of the armpits. i explained that it is impossible to me to take photos of every angle and every segment of an item. they did not care. while i thought they would be fair, apparently the onus was on me as a seller to prove that something was not there after the fact. he won the case without even having to provide photographs of these supposed stains. i received it back with huge stains and i had to appeal it and file a police report only to receive a partial refund 

i see that you sell stamps. are you honestly going to tell me it is fair that a buyer can buy your stamps, and 30 days later say, "they are torn i want to return them for a refund" and win without even providing evidence? or leaving negative feedback stating, "these stamps were torn" without providing any evidence?

he called it fake and did not have to provide evidence. if he had not canceled it, despite me providing evidence to the contrary, he likely would have won. in the same vein, he left negative feedback stating that it was fake, and did not at any point in time provide evidence. it is not even about the fact that i have proven his feedback to be false; it is that he does not have to prove his feedback is true

[femmefan1946]

To win a Not As Described case, the buyer has to return the item with Delivery Confirmation on his own dime.

Mr. Pink Sweat did that. Whether the shirt was stained or whether he just wanted to rent it for a special occasion, he still had to pay for the return. (Yes, you lost more than he did, but he wasn't scott free.)

Your jeans buyer could not win his case without returning the item. Either the cost of the return was too high for him, or he was fishing for a partial refund.

Most experienced sellers will say "no refunds without return" and " if it's good enough to keep, it's good enough to pay for'.

When the jeans buyer couldn't get his partial refund, he got all pouty and left you that undeserved neg.

But you fell into his trap when you left the LIAR Response.

Now, future buyers will look at that and wonder if they want to deal with you at all. And Responses really show up on a page.

It's 20/20 of course, but a better Response might have been something like. "After discussion, buyer dropped his complaint." Which makes you look like the calm professional.

[ryansulovesbeer]

yes i know that i could have handled the response to the negative feedback better, that is not up for debate. however with him renting/fishing for a partial refund, even if i did not reply to the feedback at all, he would likely still refuse to change his negative feedback. even if it were a recent purchase and i still had a store receipt as proof of authenticity documented in the eBay communications, it would make no difference; eBay would still refuse to intervene. it is all fluff. help pages saying they protect "thousands of sellers" with feedback revision/removal

my complaint is that the system is broken and favours buyers, with sellers having to bend over backwards to prove things that are impossible to prove, or should be the responsibility of the buyer to prove

as you so eloquently put, buyers are safe to rent items (whether clothing, or more expensive things like audio equipment) with sellers losing out. they do not have to prove anything; simply pay to ship it back as a rental fee, whereas we potentially lose final value fees arguing the merits of fairness, time, currency conversion fees, negative reputation, etc.

i am a private seller who does this on the side of a full time job. i am not Walmart and can afford to have a crazy return policy accepting return of damaged and used goods. eBay's blanket policy of allowing buyers to return it under the poor logic that we can simply sell it again is heavily flawed, as it allows buyers to damage goods beyond its original condition (re: permanent pink stained shirt)

even if i agreed to the return and he returned it and i gave the refund, they do not return the eBay final value fees. i have to make that separate request to cancel the transaction, and like the feedback revision request, he is under no obligation to do it

there is a separate option from the report a buyer form, where it looks like you can contact eBay to intervene, choosing, "resolved any issues with me and I would like to have Feedback removed." but when you get to it, it is the same and you cannot do anything. they also state this absurdity:

"These types of Feedback comments aren’t removed:

Feedback comments containing accusatory language such as "fraud," "liar," "cheater," "scam artist," or "con man." Although this type of comment is strongly discouraged, it isn't removed unless it also contains content that isn't allowed."

so even if the buyer is perfectly happy with the item, they can leave negative feedback stating, "liar sells fake things + scam artist + threatened my life" if they felt like it, and it is in eBay's policy that it will never be removed

[soextraco]

I totally agree with you on a lot of points. The guy is a liar and you wanted people to know it. I would have felt the same way. One thing people who sell clothing do is a put a giant tag that says if removed no refund, you can use the plastic attachers. If you offer the refund with that, people will have less reason to lie to get a refund. Most people aren't going to want to pay for the return shipping. 

If you are selling Designer items you are going to have people who don't know a real tag from a fake one and will get it into their head something is a fake even if its not. It's something you have to accept selling online. Some people will leave you a negative no matter what you do to make them happy. 

I don't think your response is that bad. Some of the people on this board sell small cheap items and don't know the trials of selling high priced designer items. Credibility is very important for buyers to feel safe. 

Just keep on doing your thing and really consider the return thing. Ebay is forcing us to do it anyways. 

[recped]

yes i know that i could have handled the response to the negative feedback better, that is not up for debate.

I'm not debating just offering a tip.

Do not make any type of reply to feedback you think you want to try to get removed until you have exhausted all the attempts your are willing to make.

Another one you might try.

If a buyer claims "fake" offer to provide a full refund AND pay for the return shipping. This will also greatly increase the chance of a favourable ruling from eBay when you can show that you were willing to go above and beyond for the buyer.