refund if I leave positive feedback

[maplebecky]

I bought something and the sizing was not as expected and the colour of the item was not what it appeared to be on the screen.   They were very apologetic and offered to give me a partial refund.   I was pleased with that, but now they tell me they would expect 5 star feedback for the refund.   This is the second time I have had a seller do this in the past two months.  

The other one had not shipped the item properly and the toy helicopter was crushed.   Paypal wanted me to send it back to them, but it cost almost the same amount as the item to send it back to China.

What do you do?   This seems so shady to me.  😞

[dmil8030]

Hello 'maplebecky',

"Shady"?  Well, not really, I don't think so anyway.

The seller wants something for her money and I don't blame her.  It seems fair. So many people

get their money back and yet still leave a negative of complaint.  To me, that's just plain mean-spirited. 

Same for leaving a positive and then low DSRs after you've gotten money back.

So I'd say it's normal for the seller to want to clear up any misunderstanding in advance.

If you are wondering if it is officially unacceptable, there is nothing in the feedback extortion policy

that forbids it (though you'll be surprised what is allowed):

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/feedback-extortion.html

When you get an item that for whatever reason is not suitable, even if it arrives in bits due to

poor packaging, the official compensation policy is for you to return it at your own expense.

It seems to me your seller is good and helpful to give you a partial refund when all she has is your word

that the size and colour are wrong.  If the seller chose to say "return for refund" you'd have nothing.

Me, I like fair play, I like honesty and decency, so if someone is kind and helpful to me I am inclined

to reciprocate.  I'd give the seller the green circle and 5 stars.  If I was so steamed about something

that I could not check the "as described" star for 5, -- I'd leave no stars at all.  If you leave a green circle

about how helpful the seller is but no stars at all, you won't do your seller any harm and you can then enjoy

a clean honest conscience.

Good luck

[2011limey1]

I buy only certain items from China quite often and very rarely have any problems, and when I do I've luckily had sellers who seem to bend over backwards to help. One time I bought a skirt which was a "one size fits all". I'm very aware of asian sizing, but thought, as I'm small this would be o.k. When received the one size fits all barely went past my knees! It's always low dollars when I buy clothing from there and I buy because stuff is different and once I saw the very same top near here for $39.99 and I paid $10.00. Anyway, I'm off topic now. When I let the seller know in a funny way that the skirt was so small, they offered to refund me 1/2 of the cost. I replied that if they refund the whole cost, I'll leave them 5* FB. They did - done.

[pjcdn2005]

As far as the size and color not being as expected....The color is not always the same on different monitors so that is something that you need to take into account before purchasing anything online. As far as sizing....it's difficult to say who is at fault because that depends on what sort of information was given in the listing and how different the sizing was. There are times when if there is not enough information in the listing, (for example no measurements listed) that the buyers needs to do some due diligence before purchasing.

Regardless of who is or isn't at 'fault', the url that another poster provided says...

Sellers can't require buyers to leave specific Feedback or detailed seller ratings. Sellers also can't demand that buyers withdraw existing Feedback or detailed seller ratings. This applies to all Feedback activity, whether it happened before, during, or after delivery of items or services described in the original listing.

To me, that specifically says that it is not allowed for a seller to 'require' specific feedback.  The .ca pages are not updated very often and are not always correct but both .com and .ca agree with that premise.  The .com site is updated and is more specific and states that sellers can't require specific feedback but they can 'ask' after the issue has been settled.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/feedback-extortion.html

The seller can't require a buyer to leave positive Feedback, specific detailed seller ratings, or revise existing Feedback in exchange for a number of things, including, but not limited to:

• Receiving the purchased item

• Issuing a full or partial refund

• Monetary compensation

• Additional items

• Other goods and services not included in the original listing

If a buyer contacts a seller with a problem, the seller should make every effort to resolve it. After the issue is concluded, a seller may ask the buyer to leave positive Feedback or high detailed seller ratings, or request a revision of previous negative or neutral Feedback.

If you read further down on that page...it very specifically states under "What are the Guidelines" that a seller is not allowed to offer a partial refund in exchange for monetary refund.

Regardless of what either site states...I personally think that it is shady for a seller to insist that the buyer has to leave a specific feedback.

However, keep in mind that the seller does not have to give you any type of refund at all unless you return the item. In most cases, shipping with tracking to Asia is going to cost much more than the original cost of the item. The seller is often aware of that and probably makes them feel that they have some leverage.

[dmil8030]

<< it is not allowed for a seller to 'require' specific feedback. >>

Exactly, but I don't see a reasonable expectation as a 'requirement', - besides which, a seller has no

control over what DSRs are left so there is no practical way to 'require' anything.

From the link you posted:
"After the issue is concluded, a seller may ask the buyer to leave positive Feedback or high detailed seller ratings"

so that clearly shows that sellers are quite within their right to request green circle feedback and 5-star DSRs.

What they cannot do is  "Offer monetary compensation, like a partial refund, to the buyer in exchange for

positive Feedback", which necessarily implies that reimbursement is contingent upon the issuance of the

feedback and DSRs. 

Once the seller has rectified the problem, s/he is free to ask a favour in return.

Since sellers are equally within their right to insist a buyer return an item, delivery confirmed, at her own

expense, those sellers who are instead willing to negotiate a mutually agreeable settlement are highly commendable

indeed.

I see nothing "shady" in a seller expecting a bit of fair play when they themselves are willing to be so reasonable,

so when 'maplebecky' asks what do we do, -- what I do is give the sellers what they want.  After all, they've

very kindly given me what I want.  What I do not want is to have to mail back a 1.4kg parcel back to the UK

at Canada Post's delivery confirmed rates.

But that's just me.  

[dmil8030]

<<When I let the seller know in a funny way that the skirt was so small, they offered to refund me 1/2 of the cost.

I replied that if they refund the whole cost, I'll leave them 5* FB. They did - done. >>

Stellar maneuvering!   I'm going to remember that.  Although you were quite right to ask for the whole amount,

especially when "one size fits all" should at least be usable for a small woman.  It would not really be fair for

you to lose money on an item you cannot use simply because the seller's description was inaccurate.

I hope you just as cheerfully suggested next time the seller list with the actual measurements.

There was one time when I bought some dishes for my set, but when the package arrived they were

mismatched pieces.  Of course I told the seller about it.  The dishes were not unusable as dishes, they just

didn't go with my set.  The seller was really good & decent and swiftly made up for it but then told me she

would want positive feedback and 5 stars in return.  I had no hesitation at all, -- like I told her,  I wanted a

lovely matched set to display and I saw no reason why she should not have the same.

After all, she could have been just as sweet and required I send the pieces back. . . .   Phew!

[pjcdn2005 · Accepted solution]

Once the seller has rectified the problem, s/he is free to ask a favour in return.

From the OP....

They were very apologetic and offered to give me a partial refund.   I was pleased with that, but now they tell me they would expect 5 star feedback for the refund.

The title of the thread suggest that the choice was positive feedback or no partial refund. In the statement above,  the term 'would expect' means that the seller has not yet given them a partial refund. It also suggests that the seller was demanding the feedback...not asking for it.  Perhaps I'm wrong.

After all, they've very kindly given me what I want.  What I do not want is to have to mail back a 1.4kg parcel back to the UK at Canada Post's delivery confirmed rates.

Obviously we are only hearing one side of the story here so there are a lot of unknowns. But let's say that you ordered an item and the seller incorrectly described the color and sizing.  I assume that when you ordered the item, that is what you expected to get. A partial refund does not give you want you originally wanted or make you whole. I'm not saying that a negative refund would be the right thing to do but it is up to the OP, not the seller.

The OP mentioned a second incidence with a crushed helicopter and the seller in that case also asked for 5 star feedback. I don't know if they offered a partial or a whole refund but again....the buyer wanted the helicopter as it was described. Yes...receiving all of their money back without having to send the item back would definitely be compensation but it is still within the buyers right to decide if the seller handled the transaction so that it was a positive experience.  Perhaps the damage was the seller's fault to begin with as they did not pack the item well....or perhaps the seller did their best to draw out the problem until it was too late to put in a claim. In either case, a refund does not necessarily make the experience a good one.

 A good seller does not expect a buyer to send back a damaged item back on their own dime. It is not a matter of being reasonable, it is a matter of good customer service. If the seller expresses that they must be compensated in some way, then they really don't care about the customer.

But that's just me.

[dmil8030]

<<The title of the thread suggest that the choice was positive feedback or no partial refund. In the statement above, 

the term 'would expect' means that the seller has not yet given them a partial refund. It also suggests that the seller

was demanding the feedback...not asking for it.  Perhaps I'm wrong.>>

Nahh, you're probably right, and all this may be little more than a quibble over semantics.  We simply have

too little information to go on.  The words "would expect" seem to me to be resulting from feedback which

has not yet been issued, - that is to say the seller is anticipating receiving feedback and "would expect"

that in spite of the alleged problems with the item, that positive feedback should be left as a result of the

refund.

I suppose I don't interpret "expect" and "demand" to be entirely synonymous.

<<Obviously we are only hearing one side of the story here so there are a lot of unknowns.>>

Haha, yes!

 <<A partial refund does not give you want you originally wanted or make you whole.>>

Quite so, and as such I think one must consider each circumstance individually.  We are only told that

"the sizing was not as expected and the colour of the item was not what it appeared", which is a rather

ambiguous description.  It's not the same as saying the garment could not be put on.

'limey' tells of a skirt for which the sizing was so out of whack she could not get it on at all.  To say that

the sizing on that one was 'not as expected' would be a whopping understatement.

So seen from 'maplebeckys' seller's perspective, s/he has only the buyer's word that the items were in fact not

absolutely perfect.

I have to agree that it remains a buyer's prerogative to leave whatever feedback she wants quite

independent of any compensation from the seller, -- that's why the issuance of a refund does not nullify

the option to leave a negative, -- which I personally think it ought to.  Just as I think that for a buyer to get

her money back and then still injure the seller is petty and vindictive.  I would always advise against such

behaviour as ultimately it hurts everyone.

<<Perhaps the damage was the seller's fault to begin with as they did not pack the item well....>>

Right, and one time I received a box of tiny shards instead of the lidded serving dish I ordered.

But as soon as the seller saw the picture of all the teeny pieces, she promptly refunded.  I was greatly

disappointed at not getting the dish as it was old and hard to find, I was completely steamed that the item

was so poorly packaged, -- but she gave me my money back.  Under ebay's guidelines, she could have

insisted on gettng her shards back and been within her right.  She did the most she could at that point by

giving me back my money.  So yeah, green circles and stars all around.

Ultimately I'd say any of our responses to a given situation depends very much on the kind of person

each of us is.  I've had people steal from me so when someone wants to help me when they are not

specifically required to do so, I feel such kindness and thoughfulness deserves rewarding.

<< A good seller does not expect a buyer to send back a damaged item back on their own dime. >>

Gosh I love that!   But experience has demonstated to me (more than once!) that there are plenty of  sellers

who will send an item that is ripped, torn, scratched, cracked, chipped, stained and wholly non-functioning

and then say "tough bananas, send it back".

<< If the seller expresses that they must be compensated in some way, then they really don't care about the customer.>>

I guess I don't see it that way.  I see it as a seller rightly wanting a bit of fair play for not sticking to her rights

over returns.  I see it as the seller negotiating an amiable deal for both parties where she forfeits the cash

but keeps her seller record intact. 

And yes, right or wrong, I see it as incumbent upon buyers who receive this consideraton to do the fair thing.

[maplebecky]

Yes, they want me to leave the feedback and then they would offer the refund from what I understand.    They told me that the return shipping from Canada would be too expensive, so I should just take the 35% discount and leave them positive feedback.

They had the Sizing on the website.  I picked a size even larger than I am, according to their sizing.   I can't even get the maxi dress halfway on.    Maxi dresses are usually very flowy and fit loose.   I even double checked the listing to make sure I didn't make a mistake somewhere.

[maplebecky]

And about the helicopter, it was in it's original box you would get in a toy store, without any extra packaging or cushioning at all.  I would have paid extra for them to put it in another box.  The plastic window was smashed in toward the toy helicopter and it was like someone jumped on the box.   It was in the mail from China for a month, so I can only imagine the abuse a parcel would get in that amount of time.

I had taken a break from ebay for awhile and I think I have learned to just stick with North America.

FWIW, I wasn't planning on giving negative to the seller of the dress.   They did ship like I had asked and did what they wanted.  I just can't lie and say it was what it was described as.   The dress is green and I ordered blue.  The measurements are not the same as they advertised.

Thank you for your help.