Questions about the Global Shipping Program

[kalvin@ebay.com]

Do you have questions about the Global Shipping Program? Please post here & I'll do my best to track those answers down for you!

If you have any comments about the program, use this forum instead.

Thanks,

[femmefan1946]

isnt a tracking number suppose to tell me where my item is?

No.

First, many 'tracking' numbers are actually for Confirmation of Delivery service. The package will be noted as received by the postal system and after it has been delivered, but nothing in between.

EBay only uses tracking numbers to help sellers prove that a purchase has been delivered to the buyer when there is an Item Not Received dispute.

There is no reason for a buyer to pay for a service that does not benefit him.

If the buyer is not home when delivery is attempted, a card will be left telling him where and when he can pickup up his parcel. Usually it is the next day at the local postal outlet.

Since most people have jobs or other activities that take them away from this house, this works more efficiently.

how long? 30 days 60 days 120 days? 

For items from North America I allow 20 days, then I contact the seller, asking the date of shipping and service used.

If I don't get a satisfactory response, I open an Item Not Received Dispute.

If the seller cannot prove delivery, I get a full refund.

For items from China, I allow 30 days.

Same process, but I would NEVER allow an offer of a replacement. I know it won't arrive.

Most items arrive before my personal deadlines.

whats with two different tracking numbers for one item?

Sounds like you bought from a seller using the Global Shipping Program.

The first number is the tracking from the seller to the GSP in Kentucky.

The second is an internal number from the GSP which follows the parcel to Canada where it is given to Canada Post (or sometimes CanPar or FedEx) to deliver.

You will not have to pay duty and sales tax on your doorstep, because you paid those on purchase.

[00nevermind00]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

There is no reason for a buyer to pay for a service that does not benefit him.

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As you said at the end of your post, and also since the question was asked on the GSP thread, it looks like this was a GSP transaction.

The GSP's marketing line for buyers is: "No additional import charges at delivery! This item will be shipped through the Global Shipping Program and includes international tracking. Learn more"

"Learn more" is a hyperlink and when you click on it, you get to a page that states this:

When you purchase an item through the Global Shipping Program:

You pay any applicable import charges upfront. There are no additional charges at delivery.

You get international tracking at no additional charge.

Your purchase is eligible for coverage through the eBay Money Back Guarantee and Paypal Purchase Protection.

The GSP clearly promises "international tracking" to buyers.  So buyers naturally expect to be able to track their package. Whether or not this is actually "useful" to them is irrelevant. They want what they have been promised. And until they receive it, we'll keep seeing posts of this type.

[marnotom!]

Keep in mind, though, that even sellers who don't use the GSP charge for things that don't benefit buyers.  Those charges are buried in their own shipping and handling charges.

Insurance comes to mind, for example.

[dmil8030]

'00nevermind00' wrote:

<<The GSP clearly promises "international tracking" to buyers.  So buyers naturally expect to be able to track their

package. Whether or not this is actually "useful" to them is irrelevant. They want what they have been promised.>>

Oh, well said! (as always).  When people are told they are going to receive something, they expect it to be forthcoming.

They do not want their head patted and to be told "there, there, there, not to worry"  instead.  Moreover, if it was truly of

 no use to them, they would not ask.  Not everyone simply shrugs and runs down to their local PO with the card, -- or 

hands it off to their spouse to do it for them.  Many people simply can't.  As such, the GSP folks should not be continuing

to offer something they are most certainly not providing.  

[00nevermind00]

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@marnotom! wrote:

Keep in mind, though, that even sellers who don't use the GSP charge for things that don't benefit buyers.  Those charges are buried in their own shipping and handling charges.

Insurance comes to mind, for example.

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That's true. But what does it have to do with anything?

Brettdis1975 complained that he couldn't track his item using the tracking number received. This is hardly a new complaint. Femme told him that tracking is of no use to him. So I pointed out that the GSP promises tracking to buyers but doesn't deliver.

While it's true that non-GSP sellers often bury insurance into their shipping, it has absolutely no bearing on this discussion.  I'm trying to understand what point you're trying to make.

‎

[marnotom!]

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@00nevermind00 wrote:

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@marnotom! wrote:

Keep in mind, though, that even sellers who don't use the GSP charge for things that don't benefit buyers.  Those charges are buried in their own shipping and handling charges.

Insurance comes to mind, for example.

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That's true. But what does it have to do with anything?

Brettdis1975 complained that he couldn't track his item using the tracking number received. This is hardly a new complaint. Femme told him that tracking is of no use to him. So I pointed out that the GSP promises tracking to buyers but doesn't deliver.

While it's true that non-GSP sellers often bury insurance into their shipping, it has absolutely no bearing on this discussion.  I'm trying to understand what point you're trying to make.

‎

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Femme made the comment "There's no reason for a buyer to pay for a service that doesn't benefit him."

The GSP hype you quoted notes that "[buyers] get international tracking at no additional charge."

In other words, if tracking weren't a "benefit" of the GSP, it would still cost the same for the buyer to have their item forwarded through the program, at least according to the hype.

So all these claims that buyers are paying for a service they're not getting are apparently incorrect, because the GSP hype says they're paying no additional charges for it.

On the other hand, buyers do pay--indirectly--for services that don't benefit them, such as insurance.  And that's true for the GSP as well as purchases shipped directly from sellers.

[00nevermind00]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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Femme made the comment "There's no reason for a buyer to pay for a service that doesn't benefit him."

The GSP hype you quoted notes that "[buyers] get international tracking at no additional charge."

In other words, if tracking weren't a "benefit" of the GSP, it would still cost the same for the buyer to have their item forwarded through the program, at least according to the hype.

So all these claims that buyers are paying for a service they're not getting are apparently incorrect, because the GSP hype says they're paying no additional charges for it.

On the other hand, buyers do pay--indirectly--for services that don't benefit them, such as insurance.  And that's true for the GSP as well as purchases shipped directly from sellers.

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You go to a B&M store and see a box of cookies. On it is the following mention: "Special promotion! 14 cookies for the price of 12!" You buy it, take it home, open it and realize that there are only 12 cookies inside.  You didn't pay for 2 extra cookies but don't tell me you don't feel cheated.

Repeated posts about GSP tracking (or rather, lack thereof) abundantly show that buyers expect to have tracking and want what they have been promised. Whether or not they have been charged for it is irrelevant.

As a buyer, if I see a program that doesn't deliver on something it promises in plain view on every listing where it is used, I have to wonder what else this program isn't going to deliver on. But maybe that's not a problem for you...

[marnotom!]

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@00nevermind00 wrote:

You go to a B&M store and see a box of cookies. On it is the following mention: "Special promotion! 14 cookies for the price of 12!" You buy it, take it home, open it and realize that there are only 12 cookies inside.  You didn't pay for 2 extra cookies but don't tell me you don't feel cheated.

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According to the GSP hype, are buyers paying for tracking?  Yes or no?

[marnotom!]

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@00nevermind00 wrote:

As a buyer, if I see a program that doesn't deliver on something it promises in plain view on every listing where it is used, I have to wonder what else this program isn't going to deliver on. But maybe that's not a problem for you...

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Okay, I've given this a bit more thought.  Let's break this down a bit.  What does Pitney Bowes say about tracking, exactly?

Does it describe the tracking as "real time" or "updated daily"?  No.

There appear to be cases where the tracking has appeared to be viewable online after the item's arrival.

Speaking of being viewable online, does Pitney Bowes even say that the tracking of the item is viewable online?  Again, no.

There appear to be cases where the tracking information has been obtained by phone from a customer service rep of some sort.

What do the terms and conditions say about tracking?  There's only a reference in the preamble that the service includes, among other things, international shipping and tracking.  That's it.  Nothing that suggests what the buyer should be expecting from this tracking or, indeed, how to gain access to it.

I'm not trying to defend Pitney Bowes here.  All I'm trying to point out is that its reference to "international tracking" on the listing page appears to be about as meaningful as its reference to "international priority shipping."  It's marketing puffery, is all, and should be regarded as such, rather than as a promise not kept.

[pjcdn2005]

just shakes my head

[chimera148]

[00nevermind00]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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Okay, I've given this a bit more thought.  Let's break this down a bit.  What does Pitney Bowes say about tracking, exactly?

Does it describe the tracking as "real time" or "updated daily"?  No.

There appear to be cases where the tracking has appeared to be viewable online after the item's arrival.

Speaking of being viewable online, does Pitney Bowes even say that the tracking of the item is viewable online?  Again, no.

There appear to be cases where the tracking information has been obtained by phone from a customer service rep of some sort.

What do the terms and conditions say about tracking?  There's only a reference in the preamble that the service includes, among other things, international shipping and tracking.  That's it.  Nothing that suggests what the buyer should be expecting from this tracking or, indeed, how to gain access to it.

I'm not trying to defend Pitney Bowes here.  All I'm trying to point out is that its reference to "international tracking" on the listing page appears to be about as meaningful as its reference to "international priority shipping."  It's marketing puffery, is all, and should be regarded as such, rather than as a promise not kept.

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[dmil8030]

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That is TOO funny!   Nothing like a few good laughs to set the tone for a good day.  Haha, thanks!

[marnotom!]

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@chimera148 wrote:

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Does the eBay help page state that buyers can track the item online?  It doesn't even describe this tracking number as a link to further information.  It just says that it can be found in "My eBay."

Remember, there's a lot about the GSP that's very carefully worded, such as "import charges."  I think eBay and Pitney Bowes are giving themselves a lot of "outs" here because they're working pretty independently of each other.

I have a hypothesis that the software systems used to operate Pitney Bowes are quite different than those of eBay's--one of them being held together by bubble gum and paper clips and I'm not saying which one--and the two don't always mesh or share information well.

[pjcdn2005]

Does the eBay help page state that buyers can track the item online?  It doesn't even describe this tracking number as a link to further information.  It just says that it can be found in "My eBay.

If it doesn't say that the global tracking number will lead to further information, what does the following mean?   "The email includes a global tracking number which enables you to track your item as it travels from the shipping center to you."

Are you suggesting that if it doesn't say specifically to click on the link which will take you online that it must not really mean that?

I'm beginning to wonder if you're putting us on here and just trying to get a reaction. You really can't believe your own argument in this case??

[marnotom!]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

If it doesn't say that the global tracking number will lead to further information, what does the following mean?   "The email includes a global tracking number which enables you to track your item as it travels from the shipping center to you."

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Somewhere in the mists of one of these two mega-threads there's a comment from a user to the effect that despite the fact they couldn't get the tracking information to work online, they were somehow able to get hold of a customer service rep (I think from PB, but don't quote me) by phone who was able to provide an update.

We're so wedded to our computers, it seems, that we don't consider that there may be other ways of getting information in this day and age.

Consider the PayPal user agreement for a moment.  In the section devoted to seller protection, it makes a distinction between online and physical documentation for "proof of shipment" and specifically states "online documentation" as required proof of delivery of a tangible item.  

The PayPal seller protection policy goes out of its way to state that it requires online documentation of delivery.  Where is the nature of the tracking information described in the GSP terms and conditions for buyers, or anywhere else for that matter?

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Are you suggesting that if it doesn't say specifically to click on the link which will take you online that it must not really mean that?

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I'm confused by the question.  Of course the link will take you somewhere online.  But does it say that it will take you to online-viewable tracking information?  Please read again my note about someone finding this information by telephone.

[pjcdn2005]

The phone thing is a red herring. The information says that the tracking number gives you information about the location of your package. Regardless of how that information is supposed to be given, many buyers have commented that they are unable to get that information. 

That's my last post on this particular subject.

[marnotom!]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

The phone thing is a red herring. The information says that the tracking number gives you information about the location of your package. Regardless of how that information is supposed to be given, many buyers have commented that they are unable to get that information. 

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If a tree falls in a forest and it has tracking information but there's nobody around to see it fall, is it still tracked?  😉

[afantiques]

I have a hypothesis that the software systems used to operate Pitney Bowes are quite different than those of eBay's--one of them being held together by bubble gum and paper clips and I'm not saying which one--and the two don't always mesh or share information well.

This is true of the UK version of the GSP.  People processing the parcels were entering by hand information from the ebay sales records into the PB system. This may no longer be true and only apply to the UK but six months ago that was the situation, no systems integration.

[corbett4850]

Care to tell me why I just paid 6$ American for "import taxes?" on a 20$ item? It's ultimately my fault for not looking closer. Still, answer my question. Rest assured, I'll never purchase an item again that is being shipped by your con-partner. It's a Sleazy rip-off.