Buyer in China submitting a INR case two months after buying

[flights_of_fantasy902]

I am a Canadian seller who sells mostly fantasy RPG hobby stuff on ebay.com. Back in mid February a Chinese buyer asked if he could buy $150 cdn roughly worth of items from me. I typically don't ship outside of NA or Europe but he seemed like a nice guy and knew his stuff so took China off my do not ship list and let the guy buy the items. It would have been $60 or 70 to shipped tracked and insured and he picked a less expensive shipping option. I sent small packet air service. I never heard again from him after I shipped the items. Today more than eight weeks after I shipped, he files an item not received case :(. I am suspicious about the timing; why didn't he contact me earlier? I am guessing I am going to be on the hook for this :(. Do I have any recourse with ebay as China is known as a troublesome area to ship to.      

[ricarmic]

This is why I force tracked (ie expresspost) shipping on items to China, I don't allow untracked for this reason. (note that the shipping style is what protects you, not the buyer, buyers will usually pick the cheapest)

Sending small packet air means you won't win any cases. Make sure you refund before the due date, ie before midnight the day before because if it says April 20th it means one minute after midnight on April 20th. You don't also want a defect!!

In my own experience there is little chance for repays from China, but here's something like what I send to them when I refund:

Hi! I am sorry to hear that the stamps have not yet arrived. I very much appreciate your patience awaiting their arrival! I am fully refunding now incase they never do arrive. The good news is that extreme delays between here in Canada and you there in China are still sadly too common during these COVID days and that despite COVID my loss rate remains below 1/2 of 1% so 99.5% of packages do eventually arrive. If the stamps do eventually arrive, please just let me know so I can send an invoice so you can pay for them again (this is my full time job, small packages like this are not insured so I am out 100% if they never arrive). I am hopeful that eventually they will get there. Have a great day!!!

[msau4301]

This is very unfortunate! You probably should have told him you could only ship with a trackable service to be safe. The fact that he "chose" the less expensive non-tracked method means you will have to refund him since he opened the case (and sadly you won't know for sure if that is part of the reason he chose that method). I don't ship to China myself but have certainly received items from China and they often tend to take a couple of months to arrive (sometimes more) so the time he waited is probably somewhat normal.

There is no recourse with eBay based on a country being troublesome as you say (this is why tracking would be best!) If you sent it small package international you should have a receipt number (I think starts with UR....) These packages do have a barcode so some times they can still be tracked (not insured though) but I don't know about China. Try anyways to find out more, you should have a few days to have to issue the refund while you try and get more info. Good luck!

[femmefan1946]

It would have been $60 or 70 to shipped tracked and insured and he picked a less expensive shipping option. I sent small packet air service.

Welp.

Sorry, if you cannot prove delivery - and without tracking you can't even prove shipping- you are going to have to refund.

At this time, shipping anywhere is difficult and to China? They have the entire 28,000,000 population of Shanghai , a very important port, completely shut down for more than a month.

So your "nice guy" may actually be right.

But do try giving him , and the Claim, the SP Air internal bookkeeping number. It won't hurt and might help.

Never ship anything without tracking that you are not willing to lose entirely.

Refund and then send him a Message letting him know that WHEN his purchase arrives, he can return the refund using Paypal. I believe that since you have been in a transaction with him, you can send him your PP address.

[flights_of_fantasy902]

Ok and why should I refund before ebay forces me to refund? 

[ricarmic]

Hi @flights_of_fantasy902  That example was just the last one I sent. I sent that as I send the refund. You would have to edit as per however you decide to refund. I wasn't suggesting you had to refund before you are forced to*.

Do take note though of the due date. The last defect I got was because the automagic refund happened a couple minutes after midnight of the warning message day, as per my earlier message. Make sure to refund the day before that.

*Here's an example of what I send immediately upon receiving the case notification....

(I maintain a base set of communications that I use for the various "things" that come up and edit/adjust them on a case by case basis.)

Hi XXXX! I’m sorry to hear that the stamps have not yet arrived. 

I definitely share your frustration with the postal delays! Unfortunately the COVID-19 pandemic is still affecting a lot of shipments with no rhyme nor reason as to which ones are affected. I have had a number of shipments to your area taking longer than normal in the last few weeks, I am not certain why. The good news is that ever since COVID began, my package loss rate has remained below 1/2 of 1% so over 99.5% of the time the packages do eventually arrive.

Now that a case has been opened the only options eBay gives me are to send a message or refund and irregardless of messages, I have to refund by Thursday June 17th. If it is ok by you, I will wait to refund until Thursday June 17. If they arrive before then, you can just close the cases. If they don't arrive by the 17th, I will refund out of my own funds. There is a very very good chance it will arrive after that, and if it does please let me know and I’ll send another invoice so you can pay again (this is my full time job, small parcels like this are not insured so I am out 100% if they do not arrive).

Thank you very much for your patience during all of this, let me know if you are ok with this plan, and I hope you have a great day!!! RICARMIC (Ron)

[patphotog]

Do not let the profit margins ..read "quick money" dictate/change your shipping policies. Do Not Ship to China...and many more countries "Russia - all South America countries...etc. Stick with your policies and do not change them...Good Luck

[arhirii2007]

Never ship to China. NEVER EVER. Not even to Hong Kong. It's never a question of IF you will have to refund, only WHEN.

[pjcdn2005]

I wouldn't assume that the buyer is lying just because of the 2 months it took them to open a claim.  It's possible that they were being very patient.

With that being said, I wouldn't ever ship to China either without tracking. I've shipped there twice and had to refund both times so I block them now.

[ricarmic]

I think it is important to note that I've never lost a tracked shipment to China and I've shipped many over the last few years. The volume of sales dropped a lot when I forced tracking but it also got rid of the losses.

It is untracked shipments that tend to experience high loss rates......

[pjcdn2005]

I guess I should have mentioned that the ones that I lost did not have tracking either.

[zee-chan]

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@flights_of_fantasy902 wrote:

Ok and why should I refund before ebay forces me to refund? 

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Because when eBay "forces" the refund, you'll get a defect for not complying with the initial request for refund. Having too many defects will eventually impact your selling account.

But yes, I would never ship to China (and south America, southeast Asia, Africa, Russia etc) untracked. If they want the items badly enough they'll pay for tracking.

[femmefan1946]

You don't want to be forced to refund.

What actually happens is that eBay reaches into its own pocket and refunds your customer, swearing and grimacing the whole time, and then take their money out of your bank account (or if you are lucky you current Managed Payments balance). They are not happy about this and you get a slimey Defect all over your selling account.

Defects can mean restrictions to the number and value of your listings, higher fees, or even if things go Really Bad, a closed account.

As suggested, refund a few hours before the dispute closes against you.  Or immediately, since this really isn't one you can win. Your choice.

[maximus7001]

...And if you refund now you also get your final value fees back.

Dont be shipping to sketchy third world countries untracked. Lesson learned.

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

Your only leverage in this situation is to assume the buyer is being honest, and be polite and professional because it might increase the chance the buyer will pay you back when the item arrives. Refund before the deadline because eBay will refund anyways if you don't. Then politely ask them to message you when it arrives so that you can arrange for them to pay back the refund. If it is an expensive transaction, you could also follow up a month or so after the refund to see if it arrived. 

Shipping internationally is fine, but you have to know what you are getting yourself into in terms of risk of delays. You also have to have your listings set up the right way so that the time frame given to the buyer is accurate. For example, if it says arrives in 60 business days, they cannot file an eBay claim until 60 business days. Etc.