Why did Ebay screw me:

[quantumlp65]

You need to file a claim for non arrival of goods with paypal, Then seller will have to prove it was shipped, if they cant prove item was delivered paypal will refund your money after they hold it for a week.

[pierrelebel]

"I have proof that I did pay for the item"

???

What exactly does that mean?

Did you pay through PayPal?  Using your PayPal balance?  Your bank account (e-check)? Your credit card?

Or did you pay by another method than PayPal?

What is the "proof" you sent eBay?

Does your "my eBay" show "paid" for this item?

[ubid-ikill]

I paid for this item with a Money Order at seller's request. Ebay claims that payment was never made since they sent me an automated notice stating such. I went back to the seller and told him this and he said he would straighten the matter out with Ebay and that he had opened an unpaid item case against me. On an additional update there was confirmation that my payment was in fact made and the seller had withdrawn his non-payment case. Here is confirmation from EBAY confirming payment was made.

eBay note:  Payment was recorded and this unpaid item case has been closed.Case closed by Customer Support.

I also have confirmation from my bank that the money order was in fact cashed.

[marnotom!]

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@ubid-ikill wrote:

I paid for this item with a Money Order at seller's request.

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Then eBay didn't screw you.  You screwed yourself.  Sorry.

From http://pages.ebay.ca/help/pay/accepted-payment-methods.html :

Payment by personal check, cashier's check, bank-to-bank transfers, or money order isn't allowed for most eBay purchases.

You may also want to read up on eBay/PayPal's protection policies:

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/buy/protection-programs.html

I can't find anything on eBay.ca that suggests that there's buyer protection for non-PayPal sales.

[Anonymous]

Ah, with money order, you are screwed!  Why don't you use PayPal, something wrong with using PayPal?

You can pay with your bank debit or credit card through PayPal.  You said that your bank confirmed it was cashed, it means that you have an account in your bank which you can make the payment via PayPal.  Get on with the program and register with PayPal!  It is insane that anyone who don't want to use PayPal.  Whoever wants to use the othe payment method like money orders, can be screwed like yourself.

eBay did the right thing as they didn't see any proof of payment like using PayPal which is required by eBay.  Sorry. 

[pierrelebel]

"An item I won did not arrived."

The seller confirmed receipt of your payment.

You have a claim against the seller.  However, since you did not follow eBay or PayPal policy of paying online, your only recourse is against the seller.

I do not understand why you would state "...Ebay screw me".  eBay had nothing to do with the problem which is clearly between you and the seller.  The Buyer protection program only applies if you follow the rules (payment by money order voids the protection).

Go after the seller.

[i*m-still-here]

I've been following this and wanted to take a minute and ask about a loosely related experience I'm having.

A U.S. Buyer asked if I would take a post dated check (dated a month ahead)  for an item I had listed.  (Not on Ebay.)

I said that would be fine and I instructed the person go ahead and buy it.

A month later the buyer emailed and told me to cash the check, and I did.   That was 3 weeks ago.

At the bank I asked how long it would take to clear and they were completely befuddled.

I guess in this electronic age US checks are unusual or something.

Anyway, after some huddling etc. I was told that it would take 3 weeks and that if I didn't get the check back in the mail it had cleared.

Still, it was clear that htey were very confused by the process.

That was 3 weeks ago and tomorrow is the day I should ship.

I'll call the bank first but they were so confused when I cashed it I'm not sure I trust them.

Has anyone ever had a US check bounce after 3 weeks?

I've emailed the buyer now and then but the only response I had was when she told me to cash the check.

Almost complete silence and lack of concern.

I really want to ship tomorrow, but I'm a little nervous because the situation is so wonky.

Just thought I'd post here in case others have any warnings about this.

 The check was for almost $600.

[pierrelebel]

I have been in the mail order since 1987 and have accepted a large number of post-dated cheques over the years, both from Canadian and American customers and many for much larger value.

However, I never waited for cheques to clear before shipping.

Over the years, very few have come back.  When they did, the debit usually showed in my online bank account within 2 to 3 days for Canadian buyers and no more than 5 days for American buyers (in my US dollar denominated bank account).

[i*m-still-here]

It was cashed immediatetly and nothing on my account looks awry.

From the sounds of it I'm fine then and I'll ship first thing in the morning.

I wouldn't ship without having the check clear first.  Even the buyer expected that but I don't know if she expected a 3 week wait, but she's so unconcerned.

Before paypal we used to do almost exclusively direct bank deposits or credit card  ............... always for amounts much larger than I work with today.

I liked direct deposits a lot ............ no fees and instant.

The fact that the buyer didn't have the funds for a month made me nervous.

Buying a $600 luxury item when you don't have money in the bank is wonky IMO.

I wouldn't do it.

Also, the fact that she never answers my emails.

At one point I told her that I didn't have the check.  I eventually found it stuck between two bills..

Even that didn't phase her.

An email like that would sure have made me nervous from a seller.

Anyway, sounds like all is well.

[i*m-still-here]

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However, I never waited for cheques to clear before shipping.

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Not a good idea to encourage that kind of thing............ :). (by example for example)

The reason you can do that is because yours is small world.  Everyone eventually knows everyone.

The reason I posted to this thread is because sending a MO or a check to a stranger in another country just seems so risky.

The world we live in is not one where that kind of thing makes a lot of sense.

[marnotom!]

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@i*m-still-here wrote:

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However, I never waited for cheques to clear before shipping.

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Not a good idea to encourage that kind of thing............ :). (by example for example)

The reason you can do that is because yours is small world.  Everyone eventually knows everyone.

The reason I posted to this thread is because sending a MO or a check to a stranger in another country just seems so risky.

The world we live in is not one where that kind of thing makes a lot of sense.

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Hmm.  Did you see that I said the same thing in my post, and we were definitely dealing with strangers there.    However, we were also dealing with sales that usually totalled less than US$100.

[pierrelebel]

"Not a good idea to encourage that kind of thing........."

Different opinion here.

It is great marketing when you tell your customers you trust them and their cheques are respected, not questionned.  It brings repeat business regularly.

Now, it is not for everybody and may depend on the type of products you sell and customers you service. However sellers/merchants who are risk adverse should avoid the practice.

[i*m-still-here]

Really?

Are you suggesting that it's good business to send out a $600 item the next day to a stranger I'll never hear from again when paid by US check?

That's not good business.

I'm not here to show some stranger that I trust her and respect her check.

I can see that I'm a very high risk seller compared to other posters here and even I would never do that.

In fact, if a seller did that for me............ I wouldn't respect him or her for it one little bit.

I'd think he was a stupid seller.

[rykkm]

This may have been brought up already, but I wonder if the OP has the communication with the seller recorded in their ebay message system? If the owner specifically requested a money order, that might provide at least partial proof of what the OP was taling about.

Unfortunately, if the seller opens a UID, the buyer will not only lose out on the item AND their money, but will get a strike against them, and because transaction will be voided, they won't even be able to leave feedback. This is a big double-ouch.

[pierrelebel]

"Are you suggesting that it's good business to send out a $600 item the next day to a stranger I'll never hear from again when paid by US check? "

Not only "suggesting" but in fact stating and recommending it.  However, it is not for everyone.  Some sellers/merchants may not have the risk tolerance required.  It also depends very much - as stated earlier (why do I always have to repeat everything) - on the types of products and customers.

At the end of the day, it is no different from many businesses shipping goods and give their buyers/customers time to pay (10/30 days or whatever).  Most established stamp dealers accept cheques and/or send on approval on a regular basis (customer pays after satisfactory receipt).

Late last year, I sold a large lot  ($7,000) of foreign stamps paid with five postdated cheques (one a month) to a dealer I never dealt with previously. It may not be the way you do business but it is quite standard for most.

And I would do the same again should the right buyer show up for some of my excess inventory.

[i*m-still-here]

Yours is a very small world.

The buyers sending you checks are those who trust you because you are known in your little universe.

You iin turn trust them.

The ones who don't trust you don't send checks.

Using the standards in your world of stamp collectors and extrapolating to the others is a big mistake.

You are recommending that others don't wait for checks to clear..................... and that would of course generalize to e-checks as well.

There is nothing to be gained by that for the rest of us and a lot to lose.

Haven't you seen how often e-checks don't clear?

You read the boards religiously, so I know you have.

What you are recommending goes against everything eBay, paypal, can common sense advises us to do.

That seems very irresponsible to me on your part and you should be more careful.

I know better, but others might not.

[marnotom!]

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@i*m-still-here wrote:

What you are recommending goes against everything eBay, paypal, can common sense advises us to do.

That seems very irresponsible to me on your part and you should be more careful.

I know better, but others might not.

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Still-here, I get the sense you missed this point in Pierre's post:

However, it is not for everyone.  Some sellers/merchants may not have the risk tolerance required.  It also depends very much - as stated earlier (why do I always have to repeat everything) - on the types of products and customers.

[pierrelebel]

"That's not good business."

You seem to have a very narrow view of the world.

Mail order has been around for hundreds of years.  Payment by cheque or cash was the only way to do business.  Yes people trusted people.  What is wrong with that?

eBay/PayPal have only been around for fifteen.  e-commerce s a new way to advertise products.  But it does not change the basic principle of commerce.

Mail order also existed before credit cards were used.

You need to look at the bigger picture.  Many real businesses still accept, in fact welcome, cheques.

Since the transaction you are referring to was NOT an eBay or PayPal transaction, their rules and policies have nothing to do with this discussion.