eBay

ubid-ikill · ‎07-21-2013

Here is a new experience that I've just had with Ebay?

An item I won did not arrived. I contacted seller who claimed the item was shipped. Enough time was given to item to be sent here on foot. I opened a claim through Buyer Protection requesting a refund and why, and after reviewing my claim, Ebay Customer Support decided not to grant my request for refund stating that I had not paid for the item and that the seller was holding until I did. This was not true. I have proof that I did pay for the item and appealed Ebay's decision. I made it clear that their decision was based on false information and that I did pay for the item. Seller also indicated this. Ebay dismissed my appeal without even looking at the proof I had or obtaining the correct information. Now not only am I out the item but the money I paid for it as well. Ebay's Buyer Protection is a freakin' joke. Their decision was unfair and the fact that they would not accept my proof indicates that they just don't care. Even if they are wrong, they won't change their minds. This is insulting and disgusting and I think whoever made the decision in the first place should be fired. In fact I think their should be a massive shake-up and Ebay starting right in the board room. How can anyone take their Buyer Protection seriously when they say you didn't pay for the item, and won't accept the proof I provided that I did pay for it. Thank you so freakin' much Ebay. This is a brand new experince, being screwed by the seller and Ebay at the same time. What a bunch of losers.

Anonymous · ‎07-23-2013

I am not sure what the amount you paid. If it is really large, how about filing with the small claims court? Against the seller and also eBay? I understand some ebayers were successful with small claims court against the sellers and eBay some years ago.

ubid-ikill · ‎07-24-2013

The amount in question here is too small to be of any significance to most people. However, it is no longer about the money or the item, but the principal. The seller's listing included a payment method that EBay doesn't allow, but rather then stopping the listing it was allowed. Ebay obviously missed it, or ignored it. In either case, EBay is more at fault here then the seller. Taking the matter to small claims court is an option I agree, but the time wasted in doing so, to say nothing of the costs involved, and the fact that it would be a cross border case, and that EBay has rooms full of lawyer's who will do anything including being dishonest and spare no expense to win, it just wouldn't be worth it.

Having said that, I did speak to my lawyer about this yesterday, and we have agreed on a course of action that will ultimately embarrass EBay into getting a grip on themrselves and making sure this sort of thing doesn't happen again. Of course changes will only occur once the current executives of EBAY's head office are terminated and honest, people who are more customer service oriented are put in their places. But I'm not going to hold my breath on that one. I'll just have to be more vigilant when checking out listings on EBay and if I run across this situation again, I'll just stear clear. Experince can be the greatest teacher of all, even the bad one's. I have learned much from this one.

marnotom! · ‎07-24-2013

@marnotom! wrote:
@ubid-ikill wrote:
The amount in question here is too small to be of any significance to most people. However, it is no longer about the money or the item, but the principal. The seller's listing included a payment method that EBay doesn't allow, but rather then stopping the listing it was allowed. Ebay obviously missed it, or ignored it. In either case, EBay is more at fault here then the seller.
You seem to be under the impression that eBay somehow has the online equivalent of a "beat cop" who patrols listings and makes sure that they don't violate policies and regulations.

In fact, eBay relies on users like you to report listing infractions to them. You would have been in a perfect position to do this.

Sorry, but I think you need to take some responsibility for your situation. If nothing else, you should have been familiar with how eBay's protection policies work before your very first purchase through the site.

ubid-ikill · ‎07-25-2013

FYI I've been buying and selling on Ebay for well over 10 years. I've seen Ebay grow from a grassroots, simplistic organization to a greedy, ever changing, complex system and that in itself is wrong. Bigger doesn't always been better. Be that as it may, the responsibility here is Ebay's and yes they do patrol the listings. They indicate that to all sellers when they start selling on Ebay. Obviously you haven't been here long enough or sold enough to make a qualified comment on my problem. So until you racked up 300+ purchases/sales, kindly keep you unqualified comments to yourself. And just for you dining and dancing pleasure, I received an email from Ebay yesterday saying that they acknowledge their mistake and are issuing me a coupon equivalent to the amount I have lost. At this point, I'll take what I can get, but the matter is far from settled.

pierrelebel · ‎07-25-2013

"an email from Ebay yesterday saying that they acknowledge their mistake"

OK - I have been selling and buying on eBay for fifteen years with over 105,000 transactions. Does that qualify me to ask a question?

Could you please give a complete quote from the message you received from eBay where "they acknowledge their mistake"

marnotom! · ‎07-25-2013

@ubid-ikill wrote:
Obviously you haven't been here long enough or sold enough to make a qualified comment on my problem. So until you racked up 300+ purchases/sales, kindly keep you unqualified comments to yourself.

Looks like the same research skills that got you into trouble with your eBay purchase have now led you to an erroneous conclusion about my background. Go ahead and think what you wish, but I've been on eBay pretty much as long as you have. I just happen to have an eBay ID that doesn't work on these boards thanks to a glitch back in the days when LiveWorld administered them. In addition, I do have a spouse and I've been her selling assistant in the past but neither this ID nor that one will reflect that in their feedback received as the feedback's on my wife's ID.

In any event, doing one's homework before committing to a sale isn't a skill that's exclusive to eBay.

femmefan1946 · ‎07-25-2013

Many experienced sellers use a "posting ID" on the Boards to keep nitwits from interfering with their business. marnotom! has been around for many years, although I think he took a break for a couple of years there.

pierrelebel has always used his main ID to post. I use this one and two others, although I have four other IDs used only for buying and selling.

There are also a couple of trolls who use posting IDs, but they are pretty easy to spot.

nuvistors · ‎07-27-2013

@ubid-ikill wrote:
The amount in question here is too small to be of any significance to most people. However, it is no longer about the money or the item, but the principal. The seller's listing included a payment method that EBay doesn't allow, but rather then stopping the listing it was allowed. Ebay obviously missed it, or ignored it. In either case, EBay is more at fault here then the seller. Taking the matter to small claims court is an option I agree, but the time wasted in doing so, to say nothing of the costs involved, and the fact that it would be a cross border case, and that EBay has rooms full of lawyer's who will do anything including being dishonest and spare no expense to win, it just wouldn't be worth it.
Having said that, I did speak to my lawyer about this yesterday, and we have agreed on a course of action that will ultimately embarrass EBay into getting a grip on themrselves and making sure this sort of thing doesn't happen again. Of course changes will only occur once the current executives of EBAY's head office are terminated and honest, people who are more customer service oriented are put in their places. But I'm not going to hold my breath on that one. I'll just have to be more vigilant when checking out listings on EBay and if I run across this situation again, I'll just stear clear. Experince can be the greatest teacher of all, even the bad one's. I have learned much from this one.

The ebay lawyers will laugh at the hedge lawyer you have hired. You did not follow ebay rules so you cannot expect them to repay you for something they did not have anyhing to do with.

Learn to read and follow rules before purchasing anything else, on ebay or elsewhere.

femmefan1946 · ‎07-28-2013

The seller in this case does not accept PayPal and he listed several other methods of payment including money order. I thought it rather odd that Ebay allowed his auction to be posted because Ebay insists that all transactions be done through PayPal. Obviously the seller did not want to use PayPal because of the excessive fees charges by both entities

Well no.

The seller did not accept Paypal because he knew that he could rip you off by refusing it. The fees for using Paypal are very similar to the fees charged by other payment services that offer electronic verification of payment, including direct credit card payment.

Those who claim PP has very high fees are not usually professional sellers with knowledge of the actual costs of various services.

Money order is specifically banned by eBay because of a historical problem with Western Union money orders. The problem had nothing to do with WU itself, but at one point WU was sending an email notification to the recipient that the paper MO was on its way. We selllers would then ship, and the MO would arrive.

Then some crooks started sending fake email notices..... and....

However, MOs, as the OP knows cost the sender to purchase and offer no protection against fraud. EBay was right to stop sellers from asking for them. They are also right to allow buyers to offer to pay with them.

Western Union money orders are a great way to send a cash gift to your nephew in Egypt on his graduation from university, or to a known merchant with whom you have dealt in the past. The MOs are probably no cheaper than Paypal, but the buyer pays for them not the seller/ recipient.

melissasminis · ‎07-29-2013

I think the fact of the matter is it is risky to send and receive payments like money orders and cheques these days. Sellers and buyers are both at risk, high amount of money or not. I have been one to have a lot of bad experience with fake money orders, fake cheques, and bouncing cheques. A lot of money can be lost here. Pierre, if someone sent you a $600 foreign cheque, would you ship the item out before it cleared? I can understand you sell lower cost items, and if you have a repeat customer, but a $600 cheque? Are you that trusting? It's the trusting people who are the ones who are at risk. It can take around a month for a cheque to clear, and banks look at you like you have two heads when asking if it's cleared, or even a real cheque. I simply would not ship an item until payment is completely cleared. I have had a cheque bounce after four weeks. I have had two other cheques come back as fake cheques, only after four weeks as well. Banks can take awhile for foreign cheques. Also don't forget, if a cheque is in USD and it's fake, the exchange rate will be different when they find this out, and you will have to pay the exchange rate difference, on a lot of money this is bad! Just because the money is shown as in your account, doesn't mean it has cleared, it is automatically deposited as funds, but can be reversed if cheque is fake. Now I'm talking about fake cheques here, not bouncing cheques of course. Being trusting is one thing, but being screwed is another. The buyer was trusting and sent a money order, the seller did not ship the item. A seller cashes a $600 foreign cheque, not sure if it's 100% cleared by the bank, ships the item at buyers request trusting the buyer has given a valid form of payment, this scares me! Trust can easily be broken, thus why some people aren't as trusting as others. I'm sure scammers and the like are thrilled there are trusting people out there, how would they be able to continue their scams without them.

pierrelebel · ‎07-29-2013

"Pierre, if someone sent you a $600 foreign cheque, would you ship the item out before it cleared?"

Yes, without hesitation.

I have shipped orders worth over $10,000 upon receipt of foreign cheque. Since 1987, I never waited for cheque to clear the bank, just as I have often shipped prior to even receiving the payment. If a buyer said cheque is in the mail, my reply would often be: "so is your stamp order!". Oh yes, that creates goodwill and they kept coming back for more, month after month, year after year.

As stated earlier, I deal in what many consider a "low risk" category where most buyers are mature (average age 60+) and generally well established.

Stamp dealers have long been known to send stamps on approval. That is when you send a selection to a buyer and payment or return of the stamps will come a few weeks later.

Paranoia is not welcome in this trade!

i*m-still-here · ‎07-29-2013

Stamp collectors may be different............ but it would be interesting to hear from other sellers who deal in stamps.

Are they as trusting?

Do they ship out before a big check from a stranger as well?

OR..........

Are we reading this incorrectly?

I don't know.............

There's a big difference between accepting a check from a known philatelist and some unknown kid buying a $600 stamp who no one has ever heard of before and has no connections to other collectors.

I "might" ship to a known collector in my field before a check clears as well........................ I don't know because that's never happened to me before and I doubt it ever will............... but that has nothing to do with the issue I posted about initially.

Very different scenarios.

i*m-still-here · ‎07-29-2013

That said: I mean really! ........... how many checks do we actually get let alone foreign checks?

E-Checks........ Yes......... but they bounce a lot, don't they? At least they have for me and judging from he posts here I'm not alone.

Perhaps it's more common for philatelists to operate that way, but for me this is the first big check anyone has ever wanted to pay me with for an on-line sale. (This was not an eBay sale.)

Before eBay and Paypal existed it wasn't as unusual but even then bank transfers were the norm...............

Now it just doesn't happen for most of us and that's one reason I was on my toes the way I was.

When I accepted the offer I expected the transaction to fall through every step of the way, and much to my amazement everything unfolded just as the buyer said it would.

I still haven't heard from her and I shipped last week, but I did call the bank to be absolutely certain the check had cleared first.

Too Wonky for Me!

pierrelebel · ‎07-29-2013

"how many checks do we actually get let alone foreign checks?"

Most merchants selling internationally by mail get foreign cheques.

Even on eBay, until a few years ago when eBay more or less forced PayPal upon us, about half the payments received from buyers were personal cheques. Considering USA is about half eBay's business, that was about four to five hundred cheques a year (ten a week on average). Many in Sterling or euros (no problem at the bank - my account was credited immediately).

I am confident "femme" has similar experiences with her husband's stamp business.

I understand you do not like the concept of accepting personal cheques and shipping before clearance by the bank. That's is OK. That is your choice and that of many eBay sellers. Nobedy will blame you for that. Nobody will question or object to your choice.

However, you need ti accept some mail order experienced merchants feel differently and have a larger risk tolerance. For them accepting personal cheques, including from the USA and/or overseas, is normal way of doing business.

The business world is much bigger than eBay sellers.

i*m-still-here · ‎07-29-2013

Alrighty then.

Femme has a husband?

marnotom! · ‎07-29-2013

@i*m-still-here wrote:
Alrighty then.

Femme has a husband?

Am I detecting a slightly crushed feeling in your post?

i*m-still-here · ‎07-30-2013

Crushed is not the word I would use, but it's in the right ball park.

(Femme has a wonderful grasp of the English language. I don't always agree, but I always find her posts a joy to read. She is by far the most literate poster here.)