50% UPS Brokerage fee????

[kazoobers]

I bought an item that was $99.95 US. The Seller charged me $16.00 for UPS standard shipping to Canada.

The package arrived and here is a Brokerage C.O.D. due to UPS for $54.17. What a rip! The seller said nothing about additional fees due IN ADDITION to the $16.00 I paid him for the shipping. By looking under Help in eBay, I see there is nothing I can do about it.

[deev_hutch]

How about this solution:

UPS can of course charge whatever they please for brokering a package into Canada. They are a private business.

However, to protect consumers, they should fully disclose all fees to the customer, the person in the USA doing the shipping. Perhaps all standard delivery UPS waybills to Canada should bear a very large, red label that states:

WARNING! The receiver of this package will be asked to pay a brokerage fee that is anywhere from 4 to 10 times larger than the fee charged by other carriers. They will also be asked to pay a fee of $4.50 for the service of collecting our fee. We will hold the package hostage until the receiver pays these fees. We will frequently charge the receiver of this package more than we charge to ship it in the first place.

This will make the CUSTOMER (the shipper) aware of their business practices.

[sysfixr]

re: ur warning - submit that to suggestions@ups? or where-ever
they will laugh and laugh

it is up to the buyer, importer ... you ... to know the rules for importing, what you can import, how it's being imported, fees for importing, etc.

period.

but keep coming up with these ideas, it's hilarious

*please do not use our service* stickers LOL LOL

too much

[pyro_nemesis13]

OK so yesterday after my first post and by suggestion of another user I looked into this poyner baxter class action lawsuit against ups and fedex (http://www.poynerbaxter.com/current_class_actions.htm)

I sent an email to Vicky Theodos (vicky.theodos@siskinds.com) and here is a copy of the reply she sent me.



"Thank you for contacting us regarding UPS.



Our firm will be acting on behalf of residents of ON and other provinces (excluding QC and B.C.). Our claim has to do with respect of the brokerage fee(s) charged on the shipment of goods from outside of Canada. The lawsuit further claims that UPS failed to obtain consumers’ consent to act as a customs broker; to disclose the existence and/or amount of the brokerage fee; and to provide consumers with the opportunity or disclose to them how to arrange for customs clearance by themselves. We are still in the preliminary stages of litigation. We filed our Statement of Claim against UPS with the Court in February. To view a copy of the Statement of Claim issued and to keep yourself appraised of the status of the litigation, please check our website by going the following link: http://www.classaction.ca/content/actions/ups.asp.



We don't know what type of documentation will be required to file in order for class members to be compensated and if/when a settlement is reached with the defendants. We cannot provide a timeline when this will happen. New information relating to the UPS litigation will be posted on our class action website when the times comes to doing so.



For the time being, we have recorded your interest in the matter, and we will let you know if we require any further information. Please retain any documentation such as receipts/invoices that you may have showing how much brokerage fee(s) you were charged. (if applicable)."

[deev_hutch]

"please do not use our service* stickers LOL LOL"

Well, if by simply stating to their customers what they charge for brokerage causes them to lose business... I guess that tells us something, eh?

[adam12adam12]

A tidbit clip from todays Toronto Star:

Dec 13, 2007 01:00 PM
Dana Flavelle
Business Reporter

......Meanwhile, Canada's consumer watchdog issued a warning about brokerage fees, saying it had received a number of consumer complaints about them.

The fees, which can add as much as $30 to a $100 purchase, are charged by private courier services that deliver packages ordered from outside of Canada, the federal Competition Bureau said.

Often unexpected by the shopper, they are poorly disclosed on sellers' websites and come as an unpleasant surprise on top of duties and taxes, the agency also said.

Private courier services, such as UPS Canada, have defended the fees, saying they cover the cost of steering the packages through Canada Customs.

with files from The Canadian Press

[gsr63]

I'm still amazed that we don't have people on this board who have input on these questions. I see complaints - but no solutions. "Never doubt that a small, group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

If there is anyone out there that has some thoughtful input on these two questions, I would appreciate it.

h) I guess the question is - what should the UPS brokerage fee be? If you're getting a better service (sometimes) - then should it be a percentage of the value of the shipment? i.e. 10% So, you buy a $300.00 item, you pay $30.00 brokerage? You buy a $99.00 item, you pay $9.90 brokerage? Or, what should the percentage be?

i) Or, should it be a flat rate like $20.00 or something - regardless of value?

[pyro_nemesis13]

gsr63

I personally believe that a percentage is fair depending on what its marked at. The item I bought was $48.74 (excluding the shipping cost to the seller) an the bill from UPS is $37.35. The bill is 77% of the items price. Now even if I just work it out not including duty, CA cod I was still charge by UPS 55% of the item cost. Now I could see this charge if I had a big, bulky package.......bit it was 1 LBS and a small sized package. If I ever had to use UPS in my life time again I'm expecting a free tube of lube with my package cause I'll know now that in two weeks from that signing date i'm going to get screwed.

[deev_hutch]

grs63:

The brokerage rate should be whatever the companies choose to charge.

The issue is that they do not make it clear to the shipper in the USA what the brokerage will be to the eventual receiver of the package. The receiver of the package (who is NOT the UPS customer) is stuck with paying UPS for a service that they did NOT contract for.

There needs to be greater clarity on the part of UPS and other companies that have a brokerage business about their charges.

Bottom line: Charge whatever... that does not matter. BUT... Let the consumer KNOW WHAT THE CHARGE IS.

[whsyerfroggy]

Off topic, but I agree.. a person should only need one account on eBay. What useful purpose is it to have one for buying and one for selling?

Along with the above stated reasons here are a couple more, to keep my business and personal sales/purchases separate (easier for bookeeping), to keep my business purchases seperate from sales (again easier on the paperwork) Also if I am buying something to resell because I think I can turn a profit on it why would I want you seeing what I originally paid for it?

Also if a person has more then one account registered and they are kicked off of ebay, all accounts associated with that address are "booted" off too. You know how many times someone has come on here and said my brother got kicked off ebay and my account was too. Why? Because both accounts were registered to the same address. Whether they were relatives or the same person we will never know though.

[pinsaver_king]

The seller couldn't possible know that UPS gouges people in Canada on brokerage fees. It is wise, in all circumstances, to have your item shipped through the US Postal Service. This avoids the brokerage fee altogether.

[sir*edward*ross]

Novice buyers should start small, buy local, read up on the subject.

Of course most don't do that, they jump in with both feet and some will buy expensive electronic gear from overseas payable via Western Union, and claim that eBay is terrible.

You want to import something? Fine, read the fine print on what it takes to be an importer.

Not all sellers are aware of importation rules and regulations for all countries.

When I remember, I try and help out my buyers, "Oh it'll be cheaper if this shipment goes in two separate packages and as an added bonus, each one will be under the import limit for your country", but don't expect every seller to do that. It is your responsibility, not theirs.

[canuckchat]

.... I'd guess that if UPS has to inform the consumer prior to clearing their incoming exported parcel, the end result will be higher clearing charges for the extra time and manpower involved to call up the customer, actually make CONTACT with the customer (many people will not be at home during regular daytime business hours), then if customer requests Canada Post to clear the item they will have to bounce the item out of the courier stream over to Canada Post and CP will want postage paid on the item ...


Could be an interesting mess!

[deev_hutch]

How about informing the actual UPS customer about the total brokerage fees that will be charged ... The shipper. They could easily be informed when the package is dropped off at UPS.

eg. "charges to ship this package to Canada will be $17.00. In addition PLEASE BE AWARE THAT since the item is valued at $41.00, the receiver will be charged $19.45 brokerage fee, $4.25 COD fee, and applicable taxes, for a total of $30.45.

If the shipper knows that his customer (the receiver) was paying an ADDITIONAL $30.45 on top of the $17.00 shipping, then they would be a fully informed consumer.

[deev_hutch]

Whoops, sorry, forgot to add the "bond fee". From the UPS website:

Customers are responsible for payment of duties and taxes. When funds are not provided in advance by the customer, and UPS must post a bond to allow UPS shipments to be released in advance of payment to the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA), a fee of 2.7 percent (minimum $5.85) of the amount advanced by UPS will be charged.

So, in my above example, UPS must "pay the taxes in advance". PST and GST on the $41.00 item would amount to $5.33. So UPS must pay the government $5.33 to get the parcel across the border. The then have to recover this $5.33 from the receiver perhaps up to a week later. So they charge you a $5.85 fee to "lend" you $5.33 for a week.

The breakdown for "who gets what money out of the previous transaction:

Merchant/Shipper: $41.00 44%
UPS Shipping fee: $17.00
UPS other fees
(collected from
receiver) $29.55
( UPS Total) ($46.55) 49%
GST on $$70.55 $ 4.23 4%
PST on $41.00 $ 2.46 3%

Total $94.24

[canuckchat]

... good luck with that ... USA sellers whine and moan when they have to physically take a parcel to the post office, let alone stand at a UPS counter and make up their minds if they want to ship it to Canada when brokerage fees will be $$xxx.xx amount at the Canadian end...

[deev_hutch]

Not my problem. Make UPS work on a level playing field with other carriers by having them disclose the ACTUAL fees that they charge both shipper and receiver.

[canuckchat]

... not likely to happen...

[kazoobers]

Canuckchat.... from the December 13th Toronto Star article that was posted earlier...

"Often unexpected by the shopper, they are poorly disclosed on sellers' websites and come as an unpleasant surprise on top of duties and taxes, the agency also said."

This just reiterates what people have been saying on this thread since the beginning... nobody knows about these fees. You have been saying all along that it is up to the buyer to find out everything. These are fees you would not expect, so no one is going to search websites or eBay discussion boards to find something you have never heard of before. We only found out when the little notice gets in your mailbox. Once you go through this experience once, you know to use USPS from now on, and that is what this thread is telling people and hopefully someone who has never purchased an item from the US will stumble across this thread and be forewarned.

[deev_hutch]

RIGHT ON KAZOOBERS!

100% correct.

[canuckchat]

- kazzoobers, i read that article, thanks for regurgitating it once more

- we already had a thread that said for Canadians to read it before purchasing from the USA

- we learned about courier brokerage fees years ago; others are taking longer to learn about it, we all learn at our own pace