eBay

teenytrinkets · ‎03-26-2021

The GSP continues to baffle me. They allow the shipment of items from the US to Canada that are considered prohibited - and then THIS happens (see email I received today, below in quotes). I can understand if the seller is aware, and ships knowing the risk of potential return, but since most sellers are completely unaware that they're shipping to a different country, how would they know there's a return risk? I wonder how often this happens?

"We are contacting you regarding your order(s) that were shipped with eBay international standard delivery. Our shipping partners have notified us that the item(s) cannot be delivered. If you have additional questions, please contact eBay customer service. Please note that the following order(s) are being returned to the seller.

If not listed below, we will add tracking for the return shipment to the eBay transaction(s) once it is available. Order: Item Qty: 1 Seller:
Shipping Destination: Canada Original Tracking #: ESUS Return Tracking #: ESUS:ESUS / USPS:
Return Reason: Restricted/Prohibited Item. These issues can include custom restrictions, country sanctions, brand restrictions or eBay program restrictions. We apologize for the inconvenience and want to make sure that you are taken care of.  As a result, we have also notified the seller and advised them that they are responsible for providing a full refund for the entire order(s). The seller has been asked to contact you promptly to resolve this matter. 
Thank you for your understanding. We appreciate all the business you do with eBay and wish you the best with your future purchases.

Sincerely,
The eBay Shipping Team "

pjcdn2005 · ‎03-26-2021

That isn't the gsp. Standard international delivery is a different program and I'm fairly sure that the seller knows the buyer is international. With this program the seller should get the item back. The gsp keeps (then sells domestically) the item and then refunds the buyer rather than the seller refunding. Did the listing state that they were using the gsp?

eBay blocks some categories from listing through the gsp although there are still some items that are sent and blocked in Kentucky. I don't know if they do the same for international standard. Quite often the item is not actually prohibited but if they think it might be, they won't send it. It's not a good system since it ends up frustrating both seller and buyer.

reallynicestamps · ‎03-26-2021

Knives? Guitar? Fireworks? Perfume?

marnotom! · ‎03-26-2021

As @pjcdn2005 noted, your shipment was sent through eBay's International Standard Delivery program, not the Global Shipping Program. The differences between the two are that items sent through the ISD may still be subject to payment of tax and duty charges upon (or before) receipt of the item, and that sellers remain responsible for the item's safe passage until it is received by the buyer. It's essentially a package consolidation program whereas the GSP is a forwarding service.

Sellers (and/or buyers) are responsible for ensuring that items sent through the ISD program can be transported through the carriers the program uses. That aspect of the program is pretty much the same as instances where an item is sent by mail, courier, dogsled, or whatever other means the seller uses to get the item to the buyer without an intermediary.

Sellers should be conversant with the terms and conditions of the ISD, but they're pretty mind-bending, and researching prohibited items is a huge undertaking as one has to check with each individual carrier:

https://pages.ebay.com/sell/send/termsofservice.html

By the looks of things, the ISD can handle a prohibited item as they see fit, so the seller may see the item returned or not. Items handled through the ISD do have up to $100 in indemnity insurance for the seller, but I don't believe that insurance is valid for prohibited items.

teenytrinkets · ‎03-27-2021

Nail polish strips (they look like stickers). It's one of those grey area type of item. First time it's been returned, and I don't expect it to be the last.

teenytrinkets · ‎03-27-2021

Ah, okay, it looked like it was being forwarded because there were multiple tracking numbers, so I assumed it was GSP. Soooo confusing! But glad my seller knew she was shipping to Canada!

teenytrinkets · ‎03-27-2021

Thanks for that explanation! I'm curious why a seller would choose ISD over GSP when shipping internationally, as ISD sounds like a much riskier venture for them. And how many options do Americans get when shipping internationally???

reallynicestamps · ‎03-27-2021

Considering that First Class International Package from USPS offers tracking, I don't understand why the GSP was necessary in the first place.

It's a Seller Protection program, but basically it offers tracking and customs brokerage.

There is one scam, mostly German, where the buyer does not pick up the item from the post office, claims non-delivery, gets a refund, then pays the import fees which are a small percentage of the original cost. But even that is pretty rare.

The main purpose is as a soother to paranoid Yankees. They are only shipping to Kentucky. Cue the lavendar aromatherapy and bubble bath. Nothing scary about shipping to Kentucky. It's not like it's in Kenya like Hawai'i or overseas like Puerto Rico.

The International program seems to be aimed at buyers who don't want to pay "outrageous GSP fees" which are the Canadian duty and sales taxes they will be charged on delivery. So poorly informed buyers rather than poorly informed sellers.

marnotom! · ‎03-27-2021

@reallynicestamps wrote:

Considering that First Class International Package from USPS offers tracking, I don't understand why the GSP was necessary in the first place.

First Class Package International actually offers delivery confirmation, but I realize I'm splitting hairs here. Having said that, that feature is only available to certain countries and when I did some geeking out on the internet a few weeks ago, it looked as though some countries had been dropped from the list of countries where delivery confirmation of FCPI was offered.

I also get the impression that Americans aren't wedded to their postal system the way we Canucks are. They're more willing to consider alternatives to the post for shipping their items as the economy of scale in the States makes commercial carriers more of a viable option in terms of price and services, at least for domestic shipments in the lower 48. Outside of the continental US, not so much.

Then there's the issue of customs forms, which are--rightly or wrongly--seen by many as onerous documents that have information on them that could put them on Uncle Sam's radar.

@reallynicestamps wrote:

The International program seems to be aimed at buyers who don't want to pay "outrageous GSP fees" which are the Canadian duty and sales taxes they will be charged on delivery. So poorly informed buyers rather than poorly informed sellers.

I'd say that's a side "benefit". I'm more of the mind that the service is targeted at sellers using mail consoldiation services or don't quite have the sales volume to use such a service effectively or economically, and it's an attempt by those involved with the program to get another slice of the $hipping pie, as is the eBay Standard Envelope program or service.

Also consider that an item shipped through the International Standard Delivery service will possibly have a lower shipping cost for the buyer than one sent through the Global Shipping Program, and sellers who are trying to help their international buyers may see that as giving their sales a competitive edge.

teenytrinkets · ‎03-28-2021

Yeah I can see if ISD is cheaper maybe, but in this case it wasn't. So it just seems weird to me that a seller would select a shipping service that doesn't benefit either the seller or buyer. Since ISD obligates the seller to refund, regardless if the program decides to return the product, I can only assume ignorance on the seller's part...

And First Class International Package provides full tracking to Canada, not just delivery confirmation. I guess it doesn't to all countries?

pjcdn2005 · ‎03-28-2021

You're right, first class international doesn't have tracking to all countries.

teenytrinkets · ‎03-29-2021

Interesting turn of events on this one! The seller did not automatically refund me when we were both informed of the return. So when the return tracking showed delivery on Friday, I contacted her asking to be refunded. She said she never got the return, tracking was wrong, and she has seen ebay mess up returns like this before, and that I should wait to see if I receive the item. I'm like, ummmm, tracking shows my returned purchase was delivered at your house. She wanted to call ebay on Monday, and wait to see if her package arrives... blah, blah, blah.

I get that the situation is not normal,
but we both got a letter stating she should be refunding me, and with tracking for the return, and the tracking shows DELIVERED at her house. Ughhhh...

So I contacted ebay, and the best they could do was open an INR to force the refund. The return and the return tracking wasn't tied to the original transaction in their system (other than by reference and digging on their end), so there is nothing they could do except open an INR. What a mess! At least I didn't have to wait until April 14th (which was the estimated delivery date).

I'm a seller, too, and while I understand it's sometimes good to do your due diligence, I would never treat any of my buyers like this. I would take responsibility for the return (which she did not), apologize (which she did not), and assure a refund immediately after speaking with ebay (which she did not). When I had originally asked why she was delaying the refund, she responded with, "Your refund isn't delayed - you'll get it if everything is verified with ebay. But obviously it's not quick enough for you". For the first time in years as a buyer, I'm mad enough to leave NFB. BUT, I'll wait it out and see what happens. Maybe she'll redeem herself with a little kindness and lose the attitude.... who knows.

pjcdn2005 · ‎03-29-2021

It's not that uncommon for usps to scan an item as delivered and actually deliver it later in the day or the next day so the seller may not have the package yet.

marnotom! · ‎03-29-2021

@teenytrinkets wrote:

I'm a seller, too, and while I understand it's sometimes good to do your due diligence, I would never treat any of my buyers like this. I would take responsibility for the return (which she did not), apologize (which she did not), and assure a refund immediately after speaking with ebay (which she did not). When I had originally asked why she was delaying the refund, she responded with, "Your refund isn't delayed - you'll get it if everything is verified with ebay. But obviously it's not quick enough for you". For the first time in years as a buyer, I'm mad enough to leave NFB. BUT, I'll wait it out and see what happens. Maybe she'll redeem herself with a little kindness and lose the attitude.... who knows.

Well, you see, to her you're one of those no-good igloo-dwelling non-Americans out to scam everyone they can out of a ten dollar set of nail polish strips. 🤑

femmefan1946 · ‎03-29-2021

I'm like, ummmm, tracking shows my returned purchase was delivered at your house.

I wonder if you will win this.

When the package was turned back, it became Undeliverable.

And Undeliverable shipments are not eligible for the Money Back Guarantee, whether the seller gets the item back (which can take a looooong time, return shipping not being a priority) or not.

I will cross all my toes on this, because I want to use my fingers for typing.

pjcdn2005 · ‎03-29-2021

Perhaps I misunderstood but I see the package as been delivered and then returned, not undeliverable.

But I don't know if an inr will automatically be ruled in the op's favour since the bot may simply look at the delivered status and close the inr unless the seller cooperates and refunds on their own. I do think she will get her money back but it might require a phone call. .

marnotom! · ‎03-29-2021

I don't think the package even made it to Canada. I think there's a difference between an item that's considered undeliverable due to a failure on the buyer's part (e.g. not paying customs and picking it up) and an item that's considered undeliverable due to a failure on the seller's part or the part of the seller's choice of shipping agent.

teenytrinkets · ‎03-30-2021

Yes, you're right. It was not "undeliverable", it was a "prohibited item" turned away by Ebay's ISD (which would be the same as just being seized by customs). Ebay customer service said the seller should have refunded me right away, but because they didn't, I'd have to file an INR to prove non-delivery and force a refund. In other words, it's inconsequential what happens to the original item. If tracking doesn't say "delivered" or "undeliverable", buyer wins an INR every time, no?