Questions about the Global Shipping Program

[kalvin@ebay.com]

Do you have questions about the Global Shipping Program? Please post here & I'll do my best to track those answers down for you!

If you have any comments about the program, use this forum instead.

Thanks,

[marnotom!]

You mentioned that there was nothing about online tracking stated in GSP listings in post 2773, not that long ago.

While I agree that it's a "reasonable" expectation that the tracking of GSP items is accessible online, this expectation is not based on any information from Pitney Bowes or eBay, from what I can see.

The way the information on the GSP is presently worded, there's no "promise" of online viewable tracking.  The smoking gun is the change to the terms and conditions that eliminated instructions on how to obtain tracking information for a GSP shipment through "My eBay".

One can take issue with eBay and Pitney Bowes for having IT systems that don't readily share information with each other, one can take issue with Pitney Bowes and its greasy communication of this and other aspects of the GSP, but to label this as Pitney Bowes promising a service it doesn't deliver is inaccurate, at best.

I hope I'm stating my point more clearly than I have in the past.

[i.am.vivian]

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@marnotom! wrote:

same sort of sleight-of-keyboard has been used in the eBay help pages as in the GSP terms and conditions page.  The references to "tracking" don't state anything about this tracking being viewable online within "My eBay" the way the 2013 GSP terms and conditions did.

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I don't see any sleight-of-keyboard.  The page you posted was for a 2013 eBay Help page, and eBay updates pages all the time.  The new page (the link I posted) says generally the same thing with a "click here" link that takes the clicker to the promise that tracking WILL be available online (both in email and the My eBay Purchase History order details).  The exact words are:

Once the seller has shipped your item, you receive an email letting you know that the item has shipped. The email includes a global tracking number which enables you to track your item as it travels from the shipping center to you.

The global tracking number can also be found in My eBay and on the Order details page.

If anything they are promising MORE, not less.  And the GSP fails because time and again it does not deliver on this clearly made and very specific promise.  

No wonder people don't like it.  

[marnotom!]

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@i.am.vivian wrote:

I don't see any sleight-of-keyboard.  The page you posted was for a 2013 eBay Help page, and eBay updates pages all the time.  The new page (the link I posted) says generally the same thing with a "click here" link that takes the clicker to the promise that tracking WILL be available online (both in email and the My eBay Purchase History order details).

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The screenshot was actually of an archived GSP terms and conditions agreement page for buyers.  You posted a link to the present version of the terms and conditions, followed by links to eBay help pages.

This isn't nit-picking.  The distinction is important.  The terms and conditions are what buyers agree to when they purchase an item that's forwarded through the GSP.  It's an agreement with Pitney Bowes and states what buyers, Pitney Bowes and its agents will do in the process of forwarding a GSP item.  Help Pages, on the other hand, are information only.

Pitney Bowes no longer explicitly states in the agreement that tracking information for a GSP shipment is viewable online through "My eBay" and neither do any of those eBay Help Pages I've read, including the one you've quoted.

Why would Pitney Bowes eliminate from the terms and conditions a quick "how to" on how to track GSP shipments if the "track your item" blurbs on listings, the eBay Help Pages and elsewhere were also referring to online viewable tracking?

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@i.am.vivian wrote:

Once the seller has shipped your item, you receive an email letting you know that the item has shipped. The email includes a global tracking number which enables you to track your item as it travels from the shipping center to you.

The global tracking number can also be found in My eBay and on the Order details page.

If anything they are promising MORE, not less.  And the GSP fails because time and again it does not deliver on this clearly made and very specific promise.  

No wonder people don't like it.  

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And here's where the sneakiness comes in.  That Help Page does say you can track your item, but it doesn't say it can be done through My eBay, or by any other means, for that matter.  It's certainly not as informative as the 2013 GSP terms and conditions page, you have to admit that.

And in fairness, while a GSP-forwarded item may not always have easily obtainable online-viewable tracking, we've also seen posts from buyers where online tracking has worked satisfactorily for them.  (Remember the post from a regular who said that she was "drowning in tracking information"?)   The complaints we see about the GSP's lack of online-viewable tracking may be the tip of the iceberg, or they may be simply a relatively low proportion of the total number of GSP shipments out there.  We just don't know how extensive this problem is.

[00nevermind00]

You mentioned that there was nothing about online tracking stated in GSP listings in post 2773, not that long ago.

Seriously? I have 424 posts (425 with this one), you have over 2,000. I'm sure that if I wanted to (which I don't) I could find something in at least some of your posts that I could take out of context and then twist to make it mean something you weren't trying to say. Let me set the record straight by quoting my entire paragraph:

"I'll grant you that there is no mention of online tracking. But in this day and age of doing so many things online, buyers can be forgiven for thinking that they can use their tracking number online. How else are they supposed to use it? By phoning it in? If online tracking isn't offered, then that should be specifically mentioned, and buyers should be told how to use their tracking number. Otherwise, all references to tracking should be removed from the GSP literature."

The rest of my paragraph (bolded above) clearly expresses what I've believed from the start: that any sound-of-mind buyer, on an e-commerce site, will expect to get his/her GSP tracking online. And if it can't be obtained that way, then THAT should be mentioned, not the other way around.

If buyers had to phone somewhere to get their tracking, don't you think that they'd be given a phone number where to call? Just sayin'...

This is futile and I have better things to do. I'm out of this one.

[i.am.vivian]

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marnotom! wrote:

The screenshot was actually of an archived GSP terms and conditions agreement page for buyers.  You posted a link to the present version of the terms and conditions, followed by links to eBay help pages.  

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The page URL from the picture you posted

The updated page URL I posted:

http://pages.ebay.ca/shipping/globalshipping/buyer-tnc.html

For the sake of any comparison, both pages (2013 and the updated page) are available here now.  Ebay updates pages all the time.  The updated version has a "click here" link on that page just like they do on all their other pages when they want the clicker to be able to view a more detailed piece of information.  

The updated version is acutally MORE informative about tracking than the earlier page, made available by clicking the link on that page, "More information about the Services may be found here."      

People purchase the items on eBay and both the links from the above GSP page and the Learn more link on a listing with GSP all tell the buyer, 

Once the seller has shipped your item, you receive an email letting you know that the item has shipped. The email includes a global tracking number which enables you to track your item as it travels from the shipping center to you.

The global tracking number can also be found in My eBay and on the Order details page.

and that very obviously tells them their items will be trackable online right to their door.  I think most everyone else here is able to recognize that.  It is what it is.  

Prompt and online tracking is clearly promised to buyers.  The GSP fails to deliver.   No excuses.  Period.  

As a result of the very obviously and clearly promised tracking that is so often not provided, when buyers come to the board asking about it, the only acceptable thing to do is help them get what they want.  They are promised a tracking number and they want it.  Assuming they have their reasons for asking, not least because they were told they would get something when they paid and naturally expect to receive it, the decent thing is to help them find a way to track their item.  It is for them to decide if it is useful to them or not.  Helping people & being nice to them should be the priority. 

[marnotom!]

You're falling for the sneaky wording, too.

Sure, GSP shipments are tracked, but have you found a page that states with as much clarity as the 2013 terms and conditions page that the tracking information is accessible through "My eBay"?

[marnotom!]

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@00nevermind00 wrote:

But in this day and age of doing so many things online, buyers can be forgiven for thinking that they can use their tracking number online. How else are they supposed to use it? By phoning it in? If online tracking isn't offered, then that should be specifically mentioned, and buyers should be told how to use their tracking number. Otherwise, all references to tracking should be removed from the GSP literature.

. . . any sound-of-mind buyer, on an e-commerce site, will expect to get his/her GSP tracking online. And if it can't be obtained that way, then THAT should be mentioned, not the other way around.

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I thought I had responded to this point.  I don't disagree that it's a reasonable expectation that a tracking number should be usable online, but (and this is a big but) this expectation isn't created by Pitney Bowes or eBay.  It's based on what "everybody else" does. 

It's like going to Wendy's and expecting their hamburger patties to be round because McDonald's, A&W, Burger King, et al use round ones.

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@00nevermind00 wrote:

If buyers had to phone somewhere to get their tracking, don't you think that they'd be given a phone number where to call? Just sayin'...

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Erm, have you forgotten that we're discussing the Global Shipping Program?   

The GSP seems to thrive on confounding online shopping expectations and basic customer service courtesies, n'est-ce pas?

I wouldn't be surprised if Pitney Bowes is either rationalizing their modus operandi by holding to the belief that tracking is more for the shipper's (in this case, themselves) benefit than for the receiver's.

Anyway, I know you've bailed here so I'll do likewise.

[huonia]

What Canadian couriers(s) deliver parcels in Canada once the parcel leaves Erlanger, KY?

Thanks,

Garth

[i.am.vivian]

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@huonia wrote:

What Canadian couriers(s) deliver parcels in Canada once the parcel leaves Erlanger, KY?

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Most things are small & light enough to get handed off to Canada Post and come through the mail, but for bigger heavier things I've heard CanPar gets used.  Other board users will be along soon and say what they think.  

Have you bought something or are you just curious?

[racefan_dan]

Hi. I haven't read through the entire thread so forgive me if my questions have already been asked & answered.

Question:  

Not having had the opportunity to create a listing with GSP, how are the Import Charges selected by the seller, who by definition, likely can't be bothered to learn or care about international shipping? I mean, I know how to drill down through the HS tariff codes, and to double check online to ensure that I'm using the correct code, but how much room for error does the GSP system allow, and what checks and balances are in place?

And how does someone report what appears to be a discrepancy/suspected incorrect Import Charge estimate?

Reason for my question:

I noticed a $0.00 Import Charge estimate on a US-listed item that's currently got a high bid of (eq.) CA$175 - and that struck me as odd because even if 0% duty is charged (per its HS tariff classification), surely 13% HST should be charged on the Canadian value (inc. SHIPPING), and expected upon delivery to me in Ontario? Or does the displayed GSP shipping charge INCLUDE the HST that would be owed upon delivery?

ex: on the listing referred to above, I see it has a "US$28.71" GSP shipping charge, and have calculated that including shipping, the CBSA would assess CA$28 in HST.

That would leave about CA$10 for actually shipping cost.... for the parcel to go from the item location in NY to KY and then from KY to ON, by courier, including brokerage charge and fuel surcharge.

Seems unlikely,but if that is the way it works, then great.

But *IF* money is owed on delivery (as the GSP disclaimer seems to say is quite possible),  then the "$0.00" Import Charge I'm seeing is:

1) misleading to bidders (as eBay boasts in big letters on the listing page, "No additional import charges at delivery!")

2) unfair to other sellers who are offering similar products for sale. Prospective bidders will choose a "$0.00" import charge listing to bid on or BuyItNow from if all else is the same, or will choose it even if it appears to be a little more expensive because the import charges are (in his mind) "guaranteed".

For example, if I were to sell the same item as above, internationally, and it was currently bid up to CA$160, my displayed shipping charge might be just CA$12, for a CA$172 total. That's less than the CA$175 of the other (GSP) auction, but an international bidder knows that he could face CA$50 in local duty and VAT and handling charges if he buys from me. So he has to factor that in, and looks at my auction and says "That might cost me CA$222 all-in". So he goes with the GSP auction as it is (equiv) CA$175 + (equiv) CA$38.56 in GSP shipping - and the bidder is assured "no charges on delivery" for a total of CA$213.56. It's a no-brainer, he'll go with the GSP auction and he'll save money. I miss out on his bid and my Final Sale Value is lower than it might have been. Then he discovers he owes CA$28 in HST upon delivery, he's angry, he's annoyed, but he pays the money and gets his item. He complains to eBay and they credit him the HST or not, saying, "You shoulda known! Either way, his hard lesson has cost ME!

[afantiques]

The seller has nothing to do with the import charges. They do not set them or even see them on the listing.

Once upon a time, the import charges were clearly displayed, and the logic was self evident, just looking at the listing with a modest degree of knowledge of your local taxes, it was possible to work out what it all was and where it was going.

Nowadays this clarity seems to have blown out of the window. Many items that should be taxable are showing 0 import tax, and the trouble is that this is not consistent, what you see can vary according to what ebay site you are logged into,, whereyou live, what you last set as a shipping destination,, and what device you are using. (Mobiles are notoriously bad for this)

Worst of all are the listings where you do not see the import taxes till you hit 'Buy it Now' and they only appear on the last screen before actually 'commiting to buy'. Lord alone knows how this works with auctions. What used to be clear if you knew what you were doing has now become opaque even to post-graduate GSP students.

[00nevermind00]

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@afantiques wrote:

Once upon a time, the import charges were clearly displayed, and the logic was self evident, just looking at the listing with a modest degree of knowledge of your local taxes, it was possible to work out what it all was and where it was going.

Nowadays this clarity seems to have blown out of the window. Many items that should be taxable are showing 0 import tax, and the trouble is that this is not consistent, what you see can vary according to what ebay site you are logged into,, whereyou live, what you last set as a shipping destination,, and what device you are using. (Mobiles are notoriously bad for this)

Worst of all are the listings where you do not see the import taxes till you hit 'Buy it Now' and they only appear on the last screen before actually 'commiting to buy'. Lord alone knows how this works with auctions. What used to be clear if you knew what you were doing has now become opaque even to post-graduate GSP students.

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Raphael confirmed to me in one of his last weekly chats that this was an attempt by the GSP people to find out how to make the program more palatable (less unpalatable?) to Canadian buyers. They are trying out a number of ways of displaying the various charges to see which one Canadian buyers will like the best (dislike the least?)

One of those ways is to fold the "import charges" into the shipping. Maybe they think that we think we'll be getting a freebie? Ha! Since this is all done with great secrecy, as usual, and since there seems to be no rhyme or reason to the way this is being done by the GSP (as you noticed, two similar items will be presented differently), what it really does is make the program appear shady. Sometimes the seller gets part of the blame, although he/she has nothing to do with it.

If the GSP people are so concerned about the -- uuuhhh... -- somewhat less than enthusiastic reaction of Canadian buyers to the program, maybe they should take the time to find out why, and do things that will really make a difference. Here are a few suggestions, free of charge:

1. Stop enrolling sellers into the program by stealth.

2. Make it clear to sellers that they can exclude Canadian buyers from the program and make it easy for them to do so.

3. Make the combined shipping process easy to figure out for both buyers and sellers. Right now most don't even know it can be done.

4. Make it clear to sellers that it's not a good idea to sell (for example) $1.00 postcard-sized ephemera or $10.00 fashion trinkets with the GSP.

5. Make the claims process easier to navigate for buyers.

I don't think that Canadian buyers will ever feel a great love for the GSP. But I think that implementing the steps I described above may help gain at least a little bit of goodwill for the program. Just about anything would be better than this constant -- and seemingly mysterious -- tinkering of the way important information is displayed on the listing page.

[marnotom!]

To follow-up on AF's excellent post, eBay or Pitney Bowes seems to be experimenting with folding the "import charges" of a GSP listing into the shipping charge itself on some listings, which, as AF notes.   As you suggest, this experiment may be to see if listings without "import charges" are more palatable to buyers than ones where those charges are stated in a separate field.

If an auction-style listing states that these "import charges" of zero dollars are based on the current high bid, then there shouldn't be any surprises at checkout assuming that you're the high bidder.

You may want to do a keyword search for your item on a desktop or laptop computer viewing the results in "list view"  and see if the shipping price shows up any differently in the search results than it does on the listing page.  It may give you an idea of how much Pitney Bowes has "budgeted" for the import charges.  Remember that PB is the one who's on record as paying any HST and duty owing on the item.  You're just paying them back.  Whether or not they get that "budgeted" amount correct shouldn't be your concern after you've paid.

By the way, Canada Border Services only charges HST on the item itself when it comes to personal imports by post or courier, not the shipping price.  People who compare our tax/duty-free limit to those of other countries tend to forget that fact when making that comparison.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/courier/menu-eng.html

[huonia]

I bought something, and I have in the past, but it always seems there is a random choice of the carrier who delivers it in Canada and I get no notification beforehand.

[charlotte4583]

I would love to see an option like that. I've pretty much given up on buying through eBay because of the global shipping program

[miepr1]

We tracked our package and it noted that a delivery attempt was made last week (Dec. 28).  But we have no way to contact the shipper to try to set up another delivery time or to arrange for us to pick the package up at a depot.  How do we find out who to contact?

[reallynicestamps]

It's probably Canada Post. The other, much less likely, is CanPar if you are in a major centre.

So print out the notice and take it to your local Postal Outlet.

[leonardomarc]

Import fees from Pitney Bowes are taken without your direct or personal permission. Ebay should mention these charges but does not in the checkout. They are morally wrong for doing this but lying is not illegal. In the pay pal terms they say import fees and charges must be paid to the GSP. It does not matter it is wrong to take without telling people they are taking it. Very wrong should be illegal. I understand import fees are a buying turn off but the buyer should be made aware at the checkout 100% of the time. So thousands of people aren't saying what is this Pitney Bowes separate charge? That Ebay said nothing about to ensure a sale. Many would not pay if they knew about the PB charge before paying. If you carefully read what I wrote you will understand from now on they scam with the 3 companies together so no 1 company is responsible.

[leonardomarc]

I have read some of your posts they are good. However I believe they should tell the buyer 100% of what is being charged including PB or GSP charges. I understand import fees are a buying turn off and Ebay doesn't want to. It's just that that is morally wrong in every way maybe not illegal but wrong. In pay pal terms they say all import fees must be paid to GSP or PB. By signing up to pay pal you have agreed to let them take the money. That does not make it right. If it were public knowledge nobody would use Ebay. Many would not pay if they knew about the GSP charge that Ebay will not tell you about at the checkout. BTW you will be charges 15 to 100 after this payment is made who would pay? With that information. They use the 3 companies to steal legally. So no 1 company is responsible.

Think about it. They are just skimming like the mob or organized crime only the mob tells you they are taking it lol.

[leonardomarc]

I have read some of your posts they are good.  I believe they should tell the buyer 100% of what is being charged including PB or GSP charges. I understand import fees are a buying turn off and Ebay doesn't want to. It's just that that is morally wrong in every way maybe not illegal but wrong. In pay pal terms they say all import fees must be paid to GSP or PB. By signing up to pay pal you have agreed to let them take the money. That does not make it right. If it were public knowledge nobody would use Ebay. Many would not pay if they knew about the GSP charge that Ebay will not tell you about at the checkout. BTW you will be charges 15 to 100 after this payment is made who would pay? With that information. They use the 3 companies to steal legally. So no 1 company is responsible.

Think about it. They are just skimming like the mob or organized crime only the mob tells you they are taking it lol.