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puckstopshere · ‎02-08-2013

There's a killer on the loose and Los Angeles is on edge -- again.

This jaded city has witnessed every variety of killing, from Charles Manson and his helter-skelter spree to the Night Stalker's deadly nocturnal prowling and the random strikes of the Hillside Stranger, the Freeway Killer and the Grim Sleeper.

This one is different: The suspect is an ex-cop with an ax to grind, and he's allegedly targeting other cops. This one cros...

This one picks at one of L.A.'s barely healed scabs, the scandals of the Los Angeles Police Department.

They began in March 1991, when George Holliday videotaped a gaggle of police officers kicking Rodney King and beating him with batons after a high-speed freeway chase. It ended, or so most people thought, in 2009 when a federal judge lifted a consent decree that threatened severe sanctions if the LAPD did not reform itself.

The subject of television and movie dramas since the 1960s and Jack Webb's "Dragnet," -- "Just the facts, ma'am" -- the LAPD has long been a flash point for controversy. It is the nation's third-largest police force, but has far fewer officers per capita and square mile than the two largest forces, in New York and Chicago. Until about 15 years ago, the department's officers where overwhelmingly white.

A couple of decades of reform seemed to make things better. Officers of color were recruited, and the department worked on community relations. About a year ago, the force nailed one of its own: a female detective who killed her romantic rival in a cold case dating back 26 years.

At the time, officials spoke of an enlightened era in which the new LAPD could investigate the old LAPD. Even the loudest critics had mostly fallen silent in recent years.

Enter Christopher Jordan Dorner, a 33-year-old, 270-pound LAPD washout who is now the most hunted man in America. He is the suspect in three killings and has dredged up the LAPD scandals in a 6,000-word rant addressed to "America" and posted on his Facebook page.

"The department has not changed since the Rampart and Rodney King days," he wrote. "It has gotten worse. The consent decree should never have been lifted."

Dorner is angry about being fired by the LAPD. He is articulate and lucid enough to trigger flashbacks to a time not so long ago when patrol officers broke their world into two categories: "blue and everybody else."

It began in March 1991 when King, who died last year, was beaten by three LAPD patrol officers while a supervisor stood by. The officers were tried, and later acquitted of the most serious charges. The LAPD watched as parts of the city erupted in rioting that left 53 dead and damaged $1 billion worth of property.

An investigation revealed that racism, brutality and adversarial attitudes were so engrained that it didn't even occur to officers to hide them. The inquiry documented a culture in which cops openly talked with each other about beating suspects -- "attitude adjustments," they called it -- and labeled a group of African-Americans as "gorillas in the mist," a popular movie title during the Rodney King era.

Six years after the riots, another scandal exposed more corruption and even deeper cover-ups, implicating members of an elite anti-gang unit at the LAPD's Rampart division, home to some of the city's most vicious gangs.

Rogue cop Rafael Perez was accused in 1998 of stealing eight pounds of cocaine from an evidence locker. He admitted shooting and paralyzing an unarmed teenager and planting a gun so he could claim self defense. The boy was sent to prison but later exonerated. Perez's plea bargain confession led to nearly 100 tainted convictions being overturned.

Three officers were arrested and tried. A higher court tossed out the convictions.

Attorney Harland Braun defends police officers, including the ones accused of criminal misconduct in the King and Rampart scandals. He said he believes there might be a grain a truth to Dorner's allegations of a cover-up. He said he thinks that may have been what set Dorner off.

Civil rights leaders, highly vocal in past scandals, have held back on criticizing the LAPD this time. Instead, they are urging Dorner to surrender peacefully.

Dorner wrote in his manifesto that he was forced to turn to violence because the culture of racism, brutality, corruption and cover-up continues at the LAPD. He claims he was kicked off the force after he complained about a training officer kicking a mentally ill suspect.

Braun said he had never heard of a case in which the LAPD fired an officer who reported excessive force. "You don't go after the guy," he said. Usually, though, other officers are quick to close ranks and shun a perceived "rat."

He told the story of an officer who testified at the King trial as an expert on the use of force. The man said he believed the officers had, indeed, employed excessive force. His photo was tacked up at the police academy, and it became tradition for any officer who passed by to spit on it, Braun said.

"They've changed enormously, but you're still going to have pockets of this," he added. "You're still going to have individuals who are throwbacks. You're still going to have the culture of cover-up. A group that's fighting together and under siege, they're going to stick together."

Dorner demanded justice and an apology, and vowed that police blood will flow until he gets them. The manifesto names some 40 people he claims have wronged him. He wrote that he does not expect to survive his vengeful rampage.

Last weekend, a couple was found shot to death in Irvine, a suburban Orange County community south of Los Angeles that is home to a college campus. Investigators tied the slayings to Dorner; his manifesto seems to confirm the connection: It says the slain woman's father represented Dorner, unsuccessfully, at a hearing before an LAPD disciplinary committee in 2008.

So far, the bloodshed seems to be taking place outside the city limits. It covers a wide area around Los Angeles, with incidents reported from San Diego in the south to the mountain resort of Big Bear in the east. Three Riverside police officers were shot, one fatally, by a man police say was Dorner.

His beef might be with the LAPD, but no one in law enforcement can feel safe while he is on the run.

Others have threatened to target LAPD cops in the past -- gang members, for the most part. But Dorner is no gang-banger. He's a veteran trained to kill by the military and by his one-time employer, the police.

He threatens payback by violent, unconventional means: "This is my last resort. The LAPD has suppressed the truth and it has now led to deadly consequences," he wrote.

Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck dismissed the allegations in Dorner's manifesto. "You're talking about a homicide suspect who has committed atrocious crimes," he said, adding that he was not inclined to give credence to his "ramblings on the Internet." As for any apology, well, Dorner shouldn't hold his breath, Beck said.

People who have invested years watching the LAPD -- including attorneys, legal analysts and the Los Angles Times reporters who have covered the department, say it has indeed changed since the early 1990s. But they also agree that its past is fertile territory for anyone with a grudge against the department.

Times editor-at-large Jim Newton covered the LAPD as it struggled with the fallout from the King beating and the years of study, oversight and reform that followed. He was the paper's lead reporter during the O.J. Simpson murder trial, when the defense put the LAPD on trial and Simpson was acquitted.

Dorner's manifesto "doesn't reflect any larger cultural truth about LAPD," Newton wrote in an e-mail.

Andrew Blankstein, the paper's current LAPD reporter, agreed. "Every organization is going to have rogues," he said. "But what can you believe from somebody who is homicidal? Obviously, anybody with grievances has a long, well-publicized history of the LAPD to pick at."

Laurie Levenson, a professor at Loyola Law School, has watched the LAPD and its high-profile controversies during the era that includes King, Simpson and Rampart. She also believes the LAPD has changed, even if it is not perfect.

"The LAPD has come a long way, but it still has its detractors," she wrote in an e-mail. "Ironically, the person who is most set on destroying it is one of their own. The Rodney King and Rampart scandals brought to light racism and corruption that had existed in the department. It is easy for someone with their own vendetta against the department to tap into these past episodes and make the LAPD a target."

But, she added, the tactic is likely to backfire.

"In the end," Levenson said, "he is probably just creating more sympathy and support for the people he loathes."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/08/us/dorner-lapd-history/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

puckstopshere · ‎02-08-2013

This guy really has the cops spooked.

According to CNN, they spotted a vehicle that was similar to the suspect's.

The cops apparently shot the occupants - not fatally.

They also shot at another person in a similar vehicle.

bb_cool_stuff · ‎02-08-2013

Did you see the size of that monster in the paper ? He is huge.

I've never been afraid of anyone, but in regards to him i will gladly take that statement back.

prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil · ‎02-08-2013

I don’t know why they compare him to other killers because he is totally different. Dorner is going after anyone who is a cop or attached to the police. Others serial killers killed at random. Donner also has a manifesto in which he explains he will continue killing until his exposure of corruption in the police department is admitted to.

It is also correct that in the police forces anywhere it’s……. "blue and everybody else.". This concept has been the line of division for a long time…..even back in the days of the ‘wild west’.

Donner is just one of those guys who has chosen to fight in his own way. Against the ‘system’ on an ordinary level, he knows he doesn’t have a chance. Anyone remember the movie Serpico?….it was based on a true story and Frank Serpico still speaks out against police corruption and brutality. He continues to speak out against both the weakening of civil liberties and corrupt practices in law enforcement.

Did you see the size of that monster in the paper ? He is huge.

In reality big doesn’t mean that much….it’s determination and skill and planning that are the real dangers. His qualifications are what make him dangerous. Big is actually a drawback because he’s more recognizable. He would be in more of an advantage if he was someone who just easily blended in.

If he hasn't been found yet, my guess is someone is helping him.

bb_cool_stuff · ‎02-09-2013

The search party could be sitting ducks. Scary thought.

Talk about three pounds of fun, all of it brown.

I imagine film producers are right behind the search party.

prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil · ‎02-09-2013

A search party would have to be well trained, because Donner is.

You are right about the film producers and even TV producers who will introduce this concept into different TV shows like Criminal Minds and the different CIS's. I doubt there would be a documentary type film, there would be too much pressure against it because they would equally have to inject the problem of corruptness in the police forces. Although that has been done with some movies in the past, it really hasn't been done in a long time.

I would take a good guess that there is an 'unsaid' shoot to kill order out there but it would be interesting to hear him explain in detail the corruptness he tried to uncover.

pjcdn2005 · ‎02-09-2013

I don’t know why they compare him to other killers because he is totally different. Dorner is going after anyone who is a cop or attached to the police. Others serial killers killed at random.

He isn't totally different. Most serial killers target a certain type of person.

John Wayne Gacy killed teenage boys and young men

Jeffrey Dahmer murdered men and boys

Ted Bundy killed young women and girls

Robert Pickton killed mainly female prostitutes and drug users

Donner is just one of those guys who has chosen to fight in his own way

Do you admire him for that?

I think that regardless of any perceived wrongs that he feels others have done, talking the law into his own hands and killing others is wrong.

I am sure that there is some corruption in the that and other police departments but as usual, we are only getting one side of the story of why he was let go.

puckstopshere · ‎02-09-2013

I would take a good guess that there is an 'unsaid' shoot to kill order out there but it would be interesting to hear him explain in detail the corruptness he tried to uncover.

I am sure that this will never happen. He is unlikely to be taken alive.

Whatever credibility his "manifesto" might have had, has been literally shot to hell.

prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil · ‎02-09-2013

Most serial killers target a certain type of person.

Donner is not a serial killer in the sense of what the average person considers 'serial'. He is a revenge killer aiming strictly at those who have harmed him in reality and not associated with a mental pathology if the harm is real. As an example take someone who has a loved one who has been murdered by 4 or 5 other people. Would you blame him for his anger and need for satisfaction especially if the law let them go? Take someone who is oh lets say picked on at school and life is made miserable for them but no one will do anything about it. Do you blame that kid if he one day just loses it? The lists are endless of many other examples. These are revenge killings.

Other serial killers may pick a certain 'type' of person but the people are nontheless random. If serial killers are revenge killers then there are manyof them from Presidents to Kings and Queens. Think about it.

Do you admire him for that?

Depends on the circumstances.

talking the law into his own hands and killing others is wrong.

No comment

brandeentertainment · ‎02-09-2013

talking the law into his own hands and killing others is wrong.

No comment

Ii'll comment and use a little bit of an extreme example .. IF my daughter was raped and the court found there to be lack of evidence or something and dismissed the case or say gave him 7 years ..

I would take the law into my own hands because the law is very flawed specially in Canada .. I would get sweet sweet revenge on that sicko not a doubt in my mind...

I think in many cases the Law fails very good people ... Watch the movie Law Abiding citizen that would be me in that situation... This movie is Awesome ...

I am not a mean person but depending on the circumstance I would have no problem cutting off some rapist special parts if the law failed me

prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil · ‎02-09-2013

Amen

prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil · ‎02-09-2013

I have just read that he shot and killed two innocent people related to one cop. I hadn't read that previously. That I disagree with totally.

007steveb16 · ‎02-10-2013

I think in many cases the Law fails very good people ... Watch the movie Law Abiding citizen that would be me in that situation... This movie is Awesome ...

I cannot even fathom what I would become if what happens to Butler's characters wife and daughter happened to my wife and daughter......

dipmicro · ‎02-10-2013

What if this guy is a victim of corrupt system and he simply refuses to go down without taking few of those who got him there and he stopped caring about consequences?

What if he is not a serial killer, but a regular guy who got cornered and has the capacity to shake the system enough for mainstream news to pick it up ?

What if?

Just saying.

pjcdn2005 · ‎02-10-2013

He is a revenge killer aiming strictly at those who have harmed him in reality and not associated with a mental pathology if the harm is real.

He says those people have harmed him. Have you gone and talked to those people and asked them their point of view? You are assuming the harm is real. Perhaps it is but perhaps much of it was brought on himself by his actions.

Even if the harm is real, is the death of others an "even" revenge? He kills one man..that man's wife, children, parents, etc are affected for life. By killing one person he can affect dozens of innocent people. Obviously revenge doesn't seem to make this man feel any better since he is continuing on his killing spree and killed innocent people.

There's got to be some mental pathology involved.

As an example take someone who has a loved one who has been murdered by 4 or 5 other people. Would you blame him for his anger and need for satisfaction especially if the law let them go? Take someone who is oh lets say picked on at school and life is made miserable for them but no one will do anything about it. Do you blame that kid if he one day just loses it? The lists are endless of many other examples. These are revenge killings.

Nope, wouldn't blame him (the first example) for being angry but that doesn't give him the right to kill. .But my views are different than yours are about revenge. Revenge doesn't solve any problems and it doesn't bring the person who was killed back to life.

pjcdn2005 · ‎02-10-2013

What if this guy is a victim of corrupt system and he simply refuses to go down without taking few of those who got him there and he stopped caring about consequences?

What if he is not a serial killer, but a regular guy who got cornered and has the capacity to shake the system enough for mainstream news to pick it up ?

What if?

Just saying.

What if all those things are true? Do you think that what he is doing is going to change the system? Are his actions going to change anything?

It's possible that the law professor quoted in the article is correct.

"In the end," Levenson said, "he is probably just creating more sympathy and support for the people he loathes."

prior-of-verity*shake-hands-with-your-devil · ‎02-10-2013

He says those people have harmed him. Have you gone and talked to those people and asked them their point of view?

No of course not, but he believes they have. And………have you talked to him for his detailed side of the story? Probably no…..so why ask me? Oh....never mind....I know why.

I was simply saying if they have harmed him in reality…..then he is not a serial killer.

Perhaps it is but perhaps much of it was brought on himself by his actions.

Perhaps….but you shouldn’t assume either. You are trying to change the subject. You called him a serial killer and I said he was not….he’s a revenge killer, based on what was said in the media to date.

Revenge doesn't solve any problems and it doesn't bring the person who was killed back to life.

No revenge doesn’t bring someone back (Why do people always say that? I mean who believes in revenge triggers rising from the dead?) However revenge does solve problems…..the problems of anger and justice. What’s the alternative……to let someone get away with something so they can go and do it to someone else? So revenge does solve two problems…..self satisfaction and you are also saving someone else in the future from dealing with that person. Call it good public relations.

If revenge doesn't solve anything then cancel our court and penal system.

Do you think that what he is doing is going to change the system? Are his actions going to change anything?

Maybe. Also if more people did it…..things would change. You gotta do your bit. Our justice system is so warped it's unbelievable.

"he is probably just creating more sympathy and support for the people he loathes."

He may be. But those same people full of sympathy …..if injustice happened to them…..and the next day the perpetrator had an ‘accident’ …..I doubt they would shed a tear.

It's all a matter of perspective.

snikrep2010 · ‎02-10-2013

I don't know the original author of this, but I totally agree with it.

The passion for revenge is strong and sometimes almost overwhelming. But our
intuitive logic about revenge is often twisted, conflicted, parochial, and
dangerous. Revenge is a primitive, destructive, and violent response to anger, injury, or humiliation. It is a misguided attempt to transform shame into pride.

puckstopshere · ‎02-10-2013

According to authorities, Dorner began making good on his threats a week ago when he killed Monica Quan and her fiance, Keith Lawrence, in a parking lot in Irvine, south of Los Angeles. Quan was the daughter of a now-retired Los Angeles police officer who represented Dorner in a disciplinary hearing that led to his termination.

I guess if you can't get to the person you want to kill, it is OK to kill someone in his family.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/10/us/lapd-attacks/index.html?hpt=us_c2

You called him a serial killer and I said he was not….he’s a revenge killer,

So if he manages to get revenge against 50 people, he is still only a revenge killer. Interesting. Serial killers have many different reasons for their killing sprees. Dorner, like all the others has gone beyond the point of sanity and is now a serial killer. Had he targeted only those who had "wronged him" (in his view), then you might be right. He has clearly crossed a line.