To Russia with Tracking

[i.am.vivian]

Who here ships to Russia?   On another board a member sold a coin and the buyer requests it come with tracking.  When fiddling around trying to get services all I can see that says "tracking" is the real expensive Priority Worldwide Pak.  If the other services are tracked, why does it not say?  Or why can't I get it to show up?  

Also, I didn't think Surface was tracked.  Apparently it is.  Why, then, is it such a taboo service?  It is slow, but if the tracking eventually shows it was delivered to the buyer, couldn't a seller get any claim refund appealed on the grounds that the buyer obviously will then have both the money and the item?  

I don't use Surface out of fear, but maybe then I have been worrying about nothing.   ?

Getting back to shipping to Russia, I haven't yet done it.  Who here has shipped with tracking and what was the cheapest tracked service you know of to there?  If International Parcel Air is tracked, why doesn't it show?  Why just the expensive one?

Can anyone weigh in and help this seller out, offer suggestions, directions, pointers, anecdotes.   🙂  

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Selling-on-eBay/Who-has-sold-to-customers-in-Russia/qaq-p/363914

[ricarmic]

I shipped something tracked to Russia a couple days ago.

International Parcel Air is the "expresspost" equivalent to countries that don't have expresspost and it is tracked.

As a note make sure to check the customs restrictions for whatever you are selling, coins (aka money) is prohibited to them....

Here's the link: 

https://www.canadapost.ca/cpotools/apps/wtz/business/displaySpecialRequirements?execution=e3s1  

[i.am.vivian]

Thank you for that.  I saw last night about the money not being allowed, but I thought it must be like big amounts.  One little souvenir dollar, especially a Canadian one, can hardly be called "money".   ?  

How sticky would something like that be?  My suggestion was to call it a "souvenir token", which it basically is, but I was wondering what the coin sellers here do about that?  They must sell to Russia sometimes?  If there are difficulties it might explain why the buyer wanted tracking, to see where it goes if it doesn't arrive.  

This is the link that I used to find it, 

https://www.canadapost.ca/common/tools/pg/manual/pgIntDest-e.asp?letter=R

and when I click "Russian Federation" at the bottom, I get this link, 

https://www.canadapost.ca/common/tools/pg/manual/PGIntDestDetails-e.asp?table=tblCountry&txtLetter=R...

[sylviebee]

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@i.am.vivian wrote:

Also, I didn't think Surface was tracked.  Apparently it is.  Why, then, is it such a taboo service?  It is slow, but if the tracking eventually shows it was delivered to the buyer, couldn't a seller get any claim refund appealed on the grounds that the buyer obviously will then have both the money and the item?  

I don't use Surface out of fear, but maybe then I have been worrying about nothing.   ?

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That's a good question and I've wondered about exactly the same thing.

Surface also usually comes with insurance.

I wonder if the resistance to using surface shipping to places like Australia (which can take more than 3 months) isn't a remnant from earlier times?

As you said:  Items are scanned when shipped and I know they're scanned upon arrival, and perhaps en route as well.  They also some with very long estimates for transit time.  Doesn't that mean that with the new system sellers using surface shipping are protected by the system?

[i.am.vivian]

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@sylviebee wrote:

Surface also usually comes with insurance.

I wonder if the resistance to using surface shipping to places like Australia (which can take more than 3 months) isn't a remnant from earlier times?

As you said:  Items are scanned when shipped and I know they're scanned upon arrival, and perhaps en route as well.  They also some with very long estimates for transit time.  Doesn't that mean that with the new system sellers using surface shipping are protected by the system?

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Exactly.  I never deliberately mailed anything using Surface for fear the item had no tracking, no nothing.  The services to Russia that I saw had Surface for around $50 (I forget exactly, I'd have to check) but it comes with $100 insurance, so if Canada Post only insures parcels they can track (most sensible, imo) then at least for some countries this must include Delivery Confirmation, even if takes a very long time.  Why, then, can't "Surface" be indicated in listings, a realistic time frame inserted, and no claim, including no 48-hour PayPal claim, be filed until that date has passed, since the tracking would clearly show the item is en route?  

I am probably missing something really obvious.  

[pocomocomputing]

cumos55 mentioned in his posts of years ago that they used International Parcel Surface to ships books to countries that had the service.  He said it was tracked and showed delivery confirmation. This was 2-3 years ago. Then International Parcel Surface stopped showing any tracking after leaving Canada (Montreal) and no delivery confirmation. He then stopped using the service and I believe he stopped shipping internationally..

Perhaps cumos55 can post his experiences here.

Edit: I found his old topic on this

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/Tracking-problems-with-International-parcel-service/m-p/2...

[momcqueen]

When Paypal announced it was extending buyer protection to 180 days from 45 days, I was initially jubilant because I assumed it meant sellers would be able to offer International Parcel Surface as a viable postage option to buyers for large, tracked items. Or simply non-urgent ones.

It is a bad idea. Why? Because ebay MoneyBack presumes the seller can deliver to the buyer within a month or so of shipment. As we have seen, proof with tracking of on-the-way does not mean a buyer's INR claim will be denied. It will be won, and the seller powerless.

If you add it to your listings, it says the following but who can tell me what the actual displayed EDD it will give the buyer? that's what counts because the seller has within that timeframe to deliver or lose an INR.

C $36.51

United Kingdom

Canada Post International Parcel - Surface

Varies for items shipped from an international location

[momcqueen]

Small Packets Surface isn't tracked. 

International Parcel Surface always had been tracked for me. But I haven't used it for years. I would be willing to wager its still tracked but, like other tracked services, sometimes the receiving country postal offices forget to do that job. They do at times with Tracked Packet, just stop scanning it for no reason. And then I get twitchy and call Canada Post to ask them to find out what happened from their postal partner. Xpresspost and Priority are treated differently somehow because they are premium services. Those are less likely to miss the tracking and delivery scans required.

But all of that is moot if foreign currency is prohibited from import to Russia. It takes about one second to identify a coin by X-ray. I wouldn't chance it. The buyer and seller will both lose out with this. It will be seized. I don't take the Russians for being the sort as to pretend they don't notice it. 

[femmefan1946]

Surface is notoriously slow.

Even if the buyer is too late to Dispute with eBay, she still has 180 days from payment to claim INR and get a refund from Paypal.

I don't think even a tracked service is any help then, because the requirement is for proof of DELIVERY not of shipping.

The price of Surface may be comparatively low, but it is too expensive for my liking.

Losing the item  AND refunding both postage and selling price is too much for me, even on my cheap items.

I may not use tracking for international (again low selling prices but lower procurement costs) substituting Cookie Jar Insurance, but on heavy or bulky packages if the buyer is not willing to pay the freight, I'm not going to sell.

BTW.

We can't compete on shipping costs with China, but it can be interesting to compare these two sets of rates and see what our US competitors are paying.

https://www.canadapost.ca/cpotools/apps/far/business/findARate?execution=e1s1

https://ircalc.usps.com/

Keep in mind that our southern friends love the GSP and all that that entails and also that many seller never notice that arrow on the right to the cheaper First Class International Parcel Rates and will normally use the higher Priority rates.

[i.am.vivian]

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@pocomocomputing wrote:

cumos55 mentioned in his posts of years ago that they used International Parcel Surface to ships books to countries that had the service.  He said it was tracked and showed delivery confirmation. This was 2-3 years ago. Then International Parcel Surface stopped showing any tracking after leaving Canada (Montreal) and no delivery confirmation.

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Thanks for that link.  That's the service I was referring to, "International Parcel Surface".  We can tell by the price of the Small Packet ones (SP Air & SP Surface) that they will offer nothing.   At least International Parcel Surface has up to $100 worth of insurance.  

There's the question (getting off my own topic, I know) but how can Canada Post insure something when the best they can offer is to show it left Canada, and after that, zip?  If a buyer claims INR, can the seller get the insurance out of CP on this IPS service?  It does show it has the insurance.  

Is Canada Post just going on the honor system with that, the way sellers using untracked services rely on most peoples' honesty and refund the few out of the accumulated little 'cookie jar' bits?

Same for International Parcel Air.  It might be faster but it looks like there are no promises with this one either.  Maybe that is why only the expensive service (Priority Worldwide Pak) shows it comes with Delivery Confirmation, because that is the only one that Canada Post will promise has tracking & DC.     ?  

As one of the posters in that thread observed, 

"Canada Post does not track outside of Canada. They do not deliver outside of Canada. They only operate inside Canada. They deliver to the export point,"

Based on Cumos' story and those from others I have heard, that International Parcel Surface it not tracked.  It might show it was mailed and left the country, but "proof of shipment" is next-to-useless unless the seller can get reimbursed from that $100 insurance, more if they bought more.  

[i.am.vivian]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

all of that is moot if foreign currency is prohibited from import to Russia. It takes about one second to identify a coin by X-ray. I wouldn't chance it. The buyer and seller will both lose out with this. It will be seized. I don't take the Russians for being the sort as to pretend they don't notice it. 

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Looking down that list of prohibited items, they are all 'state security and economy' type things, 'health and safety', and other real issues of genuine importance.  I doubt if a single pretty Canadian dollar will upset anyone.  

https://www.canadapost.ca/common/tools/pg/manual/PGIntDestDetails-e.asp?table=tblCountry&txtLetter=R...

Coin collectors will want to get their hands on all sorts of specimens, and importing gold krugerrands might cause problems, but based on everything else on that prohibited list, things like "information about the earth's interior",  I would think that they are more concerned about suitcases stuffed with American Benjamins.  That would be real money, real foreign currency entering the country.

I don't think one fancy little Canadian dollar is going to undermine the Russian economy.  

Mercifully it is not my decision, but if it was and the buyer was willing to pay the $95 or whatever the tracked service is, I'd mail them their "souvenir token", although I expect when the buyer learns of the shipping cost the problem will go away on its own.  

[momcqueen]

You might be right. I don't sell coins. While I agree that a single token coin would hardly lead to the demise of the Russian economy, I still wouldn't trust it not to be seized. If only on principle. Other countries seize token coins you try to export as souvenirs, so I'm not sure this would be much different.

[i.am.vivian]

Could be, so I figure its always good to have nice email exchange with the buyer just so everyone is on the same page.  🙂 

[sylviebee]

I shipped a huge heavy box to France about 2 years ago via surface mail and there was a delivery scan as well as an acceptance scan.   I can't recall if it was tracked en route but it might have been.  I was able to watch it en route but I can't recall how detailed that information was.

Since eBay won't allow buyers to open cases until a certain amount of time has elapsed it might still be viable service.  I'm just not sure where that point is.

For example:  When buying from China there is a very generous amount of time before buyers can open cases as the system blocks that action.

If they eliminated scans in the past it's possible that they reinstated some of the scans as it's now much more common for them to execute scans (or seems to be).

That must extend to all shipments so it might be a service to consider.

[momcqueen]

If so, I would proceed with caution. We don't know what EDD is assigned to it, or how soon a buyer can open a claim because they've lost the patience to wait. I agree it would be handy to be able to offer International Parcel Surface on select, bulky items but I would be reluctant to attempt a wide-scale experiment. 

[ricarmic]

Since probably about 10 years ago, my rule has been "never ship surface"......

[dutchman48]

Might also look up what countries Canada Post does not insure to as well as what they do not insure.

Their site is a disaster to find things on, but I remember they would not insure to Russia due to high losses and the coins and currency are not insurable. That may have changed but it was on their exclusion list at one time.

If anyone is good at finding things on the CP site, please post them here.

Personally, I would not ship anything surface or ship anything to Russia. You are asking for problems, but the choice is yours.

[rose-dee]

You raise good points about insurance, and there are other considerations as well.  

Shipsurance specifically excludes coverage for all currency, coins, bills, and the like (including collectible coins of any kind) and has the "touch-down" rule with respect to Russia (that is, items cease to be covered once the plane touches down in the country of origin, or the parcel is discharged from the overseas vessel at the destination port). 

I suspect other 3rd party insurers -- at least those based in the U.S. which is pretty much all of them -- will have similar restrictions.  I don't know about Canada Post, perhaps someone who has the time can look it up under the exclusions clauses of CPC insurance coverage. 

The eBay and Paypal INR complications aside, there seems little point in getting an item to a country by a cheaper shipping method, only to have it become uninsured once it arrives at the border, precisely when you really need the insurance. 

[dutchman48]

Correction:

Insurepost which is part of Shipsurance will insure collectible currency as I use it all the time and have had no issues in regards to claims.

Canada Post however will not insure currency period.

[i.am.vivian]

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@dutchman48 wrote:

Insurepost which is part of Shipsurance will insure collectible currency as I use it all the time and have had no issues in regards to claims.

Canada Post however will not insure currency period.

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That's good to know.  The value of the coin was only $60, but good to know for everyone who sells and/or collects coins,

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Selling-on-eBay/Who-has-sold-to-customers-in-Russia/qaq-p/363914