Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

Last week I had a sale to a local buyer. This doesn't happen often. She sent me a lowball offer but I'm a small potato seller and am thinking it's time to bail on ebay soon and clear out my stock anyway so I accepted. I charge a flat fee for shipping, most of my sales go to the US and I figure the postage evens out. I have an unofficial policy that if I can ship it for more than a couple of dollars cheaper I refund the buyers paypal account with a note explaining why.

Because the buyer lives so close shipping was almost half what it costs me usually. (also perhaps because I have finally figured out the best way to package things) With the price of the item the total amount was about 25% cheaper. I thought I'd give eBay a call and see if I could get a break on my FVF. The amount would not have been much but I guess I was bored that evening.

 

I spoke to a NA rep and explained my case. I was told that unless I was refunding the customer 80% of the full price including shipping I would not get a break on my FVF. I told the rep that I had honestly never heard of such a thing and asked if this was a new rule. I'm pretty sure a few  years ago I had a similar situation where I refunded a more substantial (but not near 80%) amount to a customer of my own accord and got some of my fee back. He said that it was probably just a one time courtesy. I don't believe I was ever told this was a one time courtesy. I asked him where I could find this rule in the help file and to please give me the address of the page. He gave me an address that did not work and I told him I was on eBay.ca. He then directed me to a page, I think it was this one:

https://www.ebay.ca/pages/help/sell/credits.html

Which basically states there must be a conflict resolved through eBay. But nothing about 80%. I stated that I was being an honest seller offering good customer service and that the information was vague. He then explained that eBay doesn't include all the information in the help files because sellers will find a way to take advantage of it. I said it was also a good way for eBay not to inform their sellers of the actual rules so that they may take advantage of the sellers and that I would like to escalate my case. He pretended not to understand what I meant and I explained that I wanted to speak to his supervisor. He agreed and asked me to hold. The whole time I was speaking to him I could barely hear what he said. The repetitive music they play when they put you on hold sure is loud though.

 

So I got another rep (I doubt he was a supervisor as his title was the same as the first guy) and he continued to repeat what the first rep said, that I would not get a break on my FVF unless there was a dispute and I was refunding 80% of the total. At this point I had not actually put the refund through because I wanted to ask customer service the best way to proceed. He asked me how I refunded and I asked him if the way to do it was through paypal and he said yes. So I asked him to wait as I put the refund through paypal. He said that the refund did not come through on eBays end immediately and I would have to call back the next day. I said, how about I make a screenshot and email it to you? He seemed impatient at this point but agreed. I asked for his email (I realise they don't give out emails but he was making this difficult) and he said he would email me in a few moments and I could send it to him then.

 

Of course at this point the time I had invested in getting a tiny bit of money back far outweighed the reward but things like this just get under my skin. Ebay won't post the full rules because sellers will take advantage of them?

A couple hours later I recieved an email from a different person, same title, refunding 25% of my final value fee. Nothing was mentioned that this was a special one time courtesy.

 

Has anyone else had this  or something similar happen?

 

Message 1 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

I haven't had this happened though I have never phoned eBay for something like this, BUT, since the buyer did make a low ball offer (they probably made the offer with your preset shipping cost in mind), I wouldn't have bothered refunding the buyer the difference in shipping. I would've kept it to help compensate the "low ball offer".

I have done it before where the buyer made an offer that was lower than what I'd normally accept, but since they lived close by and the shipping is cheaper (when they make an offer, eBay tells you their postal code / zip code), I accepted their lower offer and kept the difference in shipping to help compensate. If they lived further, I'd have rejected the offer.

Message 2 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

I see what you are saying zee-chan. The shipping is clearly marked and the buyer made no mention that she objected to it. I don’t print my own shipping labels, I go to the PO directly and I think the price of shipping is clearly marked. I admit, I am not the shrewdest businesswoman, but personally if I knew I paid 21.75 for shipping and saw the actual cost was 10.78 as a buyer, I might be a bit irked. So, that’s why I refund, it’s a goodwill gesture and for me, it’s the right thing to do. I’m not judging you at all. Also, afterward, I thought of refunding the shipping minus my extra FVF, I would have felt ok about that. I appreciate you sharing your POV!

 

But hey, we’re a little OT here, what about this crazy 80% rule? I mean, come on eBay!

Message 3 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

You listed a thing.

You got a Best Offer.

You accepted the Best Offer

You charge flat fee Shipping. EBay's policy is that Shipping is not a part of a Best Offer.

You will make money on this shipping fee.

You called eBay about getting a break on FVF.

Why?

The FVF you would be charged would be 10% on the Best Offer plus 10% on the shipping fee.

This would already be a reduced fee.

 

A customer rep said no.

A supervisor said no.

You accepted their decision.

 

Later eBay refunded 25% of your FVF.

It would not surprise me that the refunded FVF was because you sold your item at a reduced price.

 

But the customer reps were probably entertained.

 

 

Message 4 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

Ah I missed in that torrent of words that you had also refunded part of the Shipping fee to the customer.

(Which does not show on the label, in my experience.)

But I still suspect your phone call was irrelevant and the robots adjusted your FVF when it 'saw' your actual charge had been reduced by a PP refund.

Message 5 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

I have no idea about the 80% rule, but for me I also use flat rate shipping. So for international shipment to Australia I pay a couple dollars more out of pocket, for Europe shipment I keep a dollar, so it all balances out.

If you print your own shipping label via Shippo, the price is not shown on the label. Which is a nice feature for sellers in case you get a picky buyer who'd fight you over a few dollars shipping... Also, Shippo labels are a few percent cheaper than the PO counter price, so in the long run it's a lot of savings.

If you really want to be "honest" with the buyer (I don't think you were being dishonest at all since your flat-rate shipping is as advertised and there is nothing shrewd about charging your as-advertised shipping) then tell them this - thank you for your offer. Your current offer is lower than what I would normally accept, but since you live close by, I'm able to ship this item to you for a lower shipping cost, so because of that, I'm able to accept your current offer. Thank you for buying from me and please let me know if you have any other questions. -- though personally I wouldn't even bother. I don't think many people actually read the postage label. I personally never paid attention to it until I started selling online.

And I'm actually surprised that eBay was willing to refund 25% of your FVF to you because you called them.

Message 6 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

Dollars difference? Sellers have gotten negs for differences of pennies!!
Message 7 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

Yes, another reason I tend to refund is fear of negs.

Message 8 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

Surprise! It’s almost like a birthday party or something.

Message 9 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

If I had made the disclaimer that it was a long story would you actually have skipped it?

Message 10 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

Any time that I’ve had a FVF on Shipping reduced for reasons akin to yours, the Customer Service Rep made a point of telling me it was a ‘one-time courtesy’ so I’m not entirely surprised the CSR you spoke with had some ‘rule’ to cite. It’s probably a guideline only. And a guideline subject to any number of factors including the mood at work that day.
Message 11 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

I have had a different experience.  I usually save up a bunch of refunds due to combined shipping and call ebay to get my FVF's back.  I explain that depending on .com, I cannot use combined shipping for Canada alone and therefore always have to give refunds of $1 to $2.  Now they have given me back all the FVF's.  Now maybe I was just lucky or they made the policy after my calls.  I haven't done it in the past 6 months.  

Message 12 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?


@momcqueen wrote:
Any time that I’ve had a FVF on Shipping reduced for reasons akin to yours, the Customer Service Rep made a point of telling me it was a ‘one-time courtesy’ so I’m not entirely surprised the CSR you spoke with had some ‘rule’ to cite. It’s probably a guideline only. And a guideline subject to any number of factors including the mood at work that day.


LOL, MomMQ, reminds me of the time a few years ago when my one month old iPhone 4 landed in the toilet (lesson learned, don’t carry your smart phone in your back jeans pocket) I was devastated to say the least and assumed I was out of luck because of water damage not to mention hazardous waste. 

 

At first the Apple genius said I could get a replacement for a little bit more than $200’ (always get AppleCare!) but said, wait a minute, I have to go to the back and check something. He returned and told me it would be replaced free as ‘a one time courtesy’ because I was a long term customer. He explained that it was an extraordinary situation so Apple made an exception. Believe me, I remembered and appreciated it, and because of that experience I tend to remember these ‘one-time courtesies’ when they occur.

i think it’s just an arbitrary rule and like you said subject to the mood of the day.

But now that I think of it, I got my piddly refund and no mention at all was made of it being a one time courtesy. In fact, the third rep told me not to worry about getting my money credited 3 times in his email.

 

and, as you mentioned, you’ve been extended this one time courtesy several times.

 

PS femmefan1946, sorry this post is so long.

Message 13 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

No, I was definitely told it was not a new policy.

Message 14 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

No . I read them.

That's why I tend with long stories to make a list of the salient points removing emotion and digressions.

But sometimes I miss a point.

It's also why I tend to make each sentence in a reply a new line. In my opinion, it's easier to read than paragraphs.

Message 15 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

@trixie-cat

I got my piddly refund

 

I see what you did there.

Message 16 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

I've never heard anyone mention 80% either and I know a number of sellers who have phoned to get back fvf after they did a partial refund. Is it possible that they were referring to an automatic refund..that if the seller refunded 80% of the purchase, the fvf would be credited without a phone call?  If the rule is supposed to be for when sellers call, they certainly don't seem to follow it.

 

I might have missed how much you refunded but if the difference in postage was $10, that's $1 fvf. It might have been easier  to have refunded the buyer $9 instead of spending the time talking to ebay. 

Message 17 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

Yeah, I mentioned that in one of my  subsequent posts that I thought of that after the fact. Ha, in one of my other subsequent posts I mentioned that I am not a very good businesswoman. And lastly, I mentioned in my first post that I'm not planning on being an eBay seller much longer.

 

So now that I've learned all the ins and outs of eBay what do I do with all this useless knowledge?

Message 18 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

did I also mention I was bored that evening?

Message 19 of 20
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Re: Anyone familiar with this FVF 80% refund rule?

haha!!!!

Message 20 of 20
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