Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

Hey guys!

 

So this is the second message I get from this person.

Both time I called eBay anchor store support and was told to ignore it.

 

 

I have very little items from those brands and it wouldn't be they end of the world to remove them but I don't want to encourage this kind of bullying.

 

Should I fold and comply by removing listings or should I do as eBay suggested and ignore this? Is the possibility of them suing me real?

 

By the way - this message was sent on a Saturday.

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It has come to our attention that you are STILL IN VIOLATION with Federal Trademark and unfair competition laws of Petmate, Chuckit!, JW Pet, FAT CAT, Aspen Pet, Ruffmaxx, Dogzilla, Doskocil, Booda, Precision Pet Products, Jackson Galaxy, Muttnation, WWE, Zoobilee, Wetnoz, CALMZwith its principal place of business in Arlington, Texas. You HAVE IGNORED COMPLIANCE with our trademarks by continuing to sell our products online. You have exceeded your 5 days to remove all of our products sold by you online. Please remove all of our products immediately or we will be forced to pursue all legal remedies available to us under Federal Trademark and unfair competition laws. 

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Should I politely tell this person I contacted eBay twice regarding this and they told me not to take any action and that those concerns/complaints should be directed directly to eBay?

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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?


@vip-marketplace wrote:

 

So this is the second message I get from this person.

Both time I called eBay anchor store support and was told to ignore it.

 


Hi, I may be able to help you and I'm sorry I didn't see your post earlier.  I'm an eBay seller, but I worked for a number of years as a professional paralegal and document drafter for several large corporate-commercial law firms in Vancouver, BC.   I can tell you with certainty that this message is not legitimate.  For your sake, and for the sake of others who may be targeted with this sort of bullying, here is why: 

 

1) I've reviewed the text you posted and marked specifically the portions that are absolutely markers of a false or fraudulent "legal" letter.   Not much left, is there!  Really, I laughed out loud at this so-called "notice".    

 

It has come to our attention that you are STILL IN VIOLATION with Federal Trademark and unfair competition laws of Petmate, Chuckit!, JW Pet, FAT CAT, Aspen Pet, Ruffmaxx, Dogzilla, Doskocil, Booda, Precision Pet Products, Jackson Galaxy, Muttnation, WWE, Zoobilee, Wetnoz, CALMZwith its principal place of business in Arlington, Texas. You HAVE IGNORED COMPLIANCE with our trademarks by continuing to sell our products online. You have exceeded your 5 days to remove all of our products sold by you online. Please remove all of our products immediately or we will be forced to pursue all legal remedies available to us under Federal Trademark and unfair competition laws. 

 

2) Aside from specifics about this text (which are too long to post here), there are other telltale mistakes the sender has made: 

  • A bona fide law firm representing a rights holder would not be contacting you, the seller.  They would first complain to the legally responsible party, the platform on which you sell (eBay).  
  • Such a letter would not be sent by email, even in today's "online" world.  Any legitimate legal notice would be sent by mail first, usually by registered mail to prove receipt, in the event that a legal claim might be required to be filed.  Even in the U.S., no civil claim can be instituted without first having proof of notice on the recipient (defendant).   
  • Such a letter would always be signed on behalf of the actual corporate owner of the trade marks, either by an in-house lawyer or corporate law firm, and would specify eBay as the offending party. 
  • Although the letter might be more or less standard (boilerplate), it would  always, ALWAYS be on the formal letterhead of the company or law firm. 
  • You might receive a copy of that letter by mail, but most likely you'd be contacted by eBay on their receipt of the notice. 
  • If the rights owner is a VeRO registrant on eBay, the process would essentially be the same.  

You did the right thing in notifying eBay about this, and they gave you the right advice to ignore it.  I would go further and suggest that you not contact the company or companies who own these products in any way, but report this fraudulent letter to the authorities.  There are governmental internet watchdog agencies that may be able to deal with the source of this chicanery.   I'm afraid I don't have a link for you immediately, but someone else here may be able to suggest an internet fraud reporting site connected with the federal government or an international authority.  

 

Since I did this sort of work for so many years, it's actually a fun exercise for me to analyze the stupidities in a fraudulent "notice".  Rather than clog up this discussion with a lengthy exegesis, I'll do it off-line and post it shortly as a jpeg scan.   

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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

If you're extremely concerned about that email, for starters confirm the email address is valid. If you did have something listed that did NOT meet copyright standards, you would be getting an email from eBay also advising you of the item/s they were concerned with and they would just be pulled advising you and would be up to you to resolve before you could relist. See link for specifics.

 

https://www.ebay.ca/pages/help/tp/vero-rights-owner.html

 

-CM

Message 2 of 30
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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

There are no e-mail address unfortunately. The message was sent from a brand new eBay user ID directly in eBay.

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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

That "should" be a clue it is not legit.

 

-CM

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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

But I mean how else would they be able to contact a seller on eBay?

 

I don't think they would be able to get my e-mail address anywhere. Would they?

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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

They just hit Contact Seller and bob's your uncle.

 

"Federal trademark"  Uh-huh. Of what country? Where do they plan to  have you tried?

 

Ignore -- since they actually have no idea who they are, only your ID.

They are not signed up for VeRO, or eBay would be contacting you.

 

If you are very concerned, email them the postal address of your family/company lawyer and ask that all further contact be through them and on paper.

 

Do you have a 'delete' button on your computer? They are the latest craze, I hear.

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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

I couldn't read the name of the 'law firm' on that pdf.

 

Have you googled it? Including Google Maps?

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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

It’s a hustle. Probably from a jealous or envious competitor. Block the ID and continue to ignore it.
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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

A PDF from the actual Petmate company would be on company letterhead and better laid out and presented, likely with a more contemporary font than Times New Roman.

I also can't help but notice that "not authorized" is in quotation marks. This YouTube clip nicely sums up my thoughts on that point:

https://youtu.be/qUJtx8ffQWI
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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

Don't delete the messages just yet. Report it as harrassment to eBay, as harrassing members is a policy violation. They can flag that account and as many as they create.

I've heard of actions like this from the River as well. Sounds like a competition is trying to shove you out of the way.

The only thing is, if they up the game, they may purchase products and give you grief that way depending how desperate they are. That's why you keep all correspondence.
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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

Oh, one quick thing, open up a quick conversation with the parent company they are claiming to represent.

You may find that the company is aware of it or they may take care of it for you. Never hurts to be friends with the "enemy". 🙂
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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

sorry but i would take it seriously, i would contact the parent company, and ask if in fact they have issued a cease and desist order against me, then i would go from there..

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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

From what I understand a cease and desist letter has to be a physical letter, not an online message  addressed to an ebay ID. Unless the op is using another company's pictures or has a contract with that company and is not following the contract, they don't have a right to tell them what they can or can not sell. The letter is more than likely from another ebay seller that figures they should be the only one allowed to sell those products.

 

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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

Any legitimate parent company would do better than create random ebay user IDs to issue that manner of legal notice. (Starting with VERO. ) This threat is bogus, actual lawyers do a lot better. That's the reason they get paid the big bucks. 

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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

Just in case I was misunderstood, I meant to contact the parent company of these brands to let them know of the incidence. Typically they will respond in the negative that they have no involvement, and if you supply them with all the contact details, they may look into the matter.

Some companies take illegal legal representation serious and may in fact fire up the legal team to hunt down the individual responsible.

There are a few anecdotes floating around where behavior similar to this was reported and the parties were authorized dealers but after an investigation were stripped of all authorization and legal actions taken. It just depends how strongly they defend the brand.
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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

A) You don't have a dealer agreement with any of these brands, hence they aren't really on firm footing. There issue lies with their distributors not requiring authorization for their lines and filtering them from their standard XML/CSV feed any customer of said distributor can have. Most brands are cheap and won't pay the fees distributors charge to actually put an authorization procedure in place for the line and have customized data fees for authorized customers. Any ecommerce retailer of size that utilizes data feeds deals with this **bleep** regularly and standard is to ignore it unless there is an actual agreement in place.

 

B) Issues of this nature are typically handled between the marketplace and the legal representative of a given brand. A brand may choose to file VERO claims for unauthorized usage of assets as another tactic.

 

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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

True, but OP won't know until they contact the rights holder. Some don't care who sells the product as long as it sells. But they may not take kindly to folks running the brand through the mud through fake or misrepresentation of any kind. It is situations like this that can make some brands go authorized in the first place.

OP, maybe reach out to the rights holder and let us know what they say? Couldn't hurt.
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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?


@retroman_studios wrote:
True, but OP won't know until they contact the rights holder. Some don't care who sells the product as long as it sells. But they may not take kindly to folks running the brand through the mud through fake or misrepresentation of any kind. It is situations like this that can make some brands go authorized in the first place.

The "misrepresent" the brand line usually translates to they want to maintain MAP pricing, whether it is official/unofficial, verbal or written. This is what the majority of Amazon line/seller pulls are for. The beef they have is a lot of dropshippers simply have no idea what their pricing structure is and simply apply their standard markup. Mind you, they create their own problems by not paying distributors to set this up properly as well. It's usually a few thousand dollars fee-wise to get a distributor to add a percentage load to the dropship feed cost so that basically the retailer's cost is equal to the MAP price. Either block the feed or load the cost and the problem is solved for considerably less than the cost of a retainer. 

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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

OP here.

 

I'm trying to understand what would happen would they go through with their legal threats.

 

I have no lawyer or insurance of any sort and I am not incorporated.

 

If I risk losing my business and house because of this, I think I'll simply remove the listings and be done with it. Even if its just a 1% chance of it happening, not interested in taking it.

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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

I’m risk-averse like you.

However, there is zero chance this is legit. No lawyer would ever send a bush-league letter like this via these means, nor would the company they claim to represent.

Removing the listings would be letting this fraudulent bully win. They are certainly competition as opposed to who they claim to be.

If it makes you feel better, tag happy pidgeon or Tyler for review. They’re more knowledgeable and accountable than some random CSR.

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