Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

Hey guys!

 

So this is the second message I get from this person.

Both time I called eBay anchor store support and was told to ignore it.

 

 

I have very little items from those brands and it wouldn't be they end of the world to remove them but I don't want to encourage this kind of bullying.

 

Should I fold and comply by removing listings or should I do as eBay suggested and ignore this? Is the possibility of them suing me real?

 

By the way - this message was sent on a Saturday.

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It has come to our attention that you are STILL IN VIOLATION with Federal Trademark and unfair competition laws of Petmate, Chuckit!, JW Pet, FAT CAT, Aspen Pet, Ruffmaxx, Dogzilla, Doskocil, Booda, Precision Pet Products, Jackson Galaxy, Muttnation, WWE, Zoobilee, Wetnoz, CALMZwith its principal place of business in Arlington, Texas. You HAVE IGNORED COMPLIANCE with our trademarks by continuing to sell our products online. You have exceeded your 5 days to remove all of our products sold by you online. Please remove all of our products immediately or we will be forced to pursue all legal remedies available to us under Federal Trademark and unfair competition laws. 

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Should I politely tell this person I contacted eBay twice regarding this and they told me not to take any action and that those concerns/complaints should be directed directly to eBay?

Message 1 of 30
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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

Thanks!

 

I would love to tag happy pidgeon to give some insight about this.

 

 

How do I do that? 

#happypidgeon?

Message 21 of 30
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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

Actually the law firm isn't mentioned anywhere in both the message or the .pdf

 

The last line is just :

"Petmate Intellectual Property Enforcement Team"

Message 22 of 30
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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?


@vip-marketplace wrote:

 

So this is the second message I get from this person.

Both time I called eBay anchor store support and was told to ignore it.

 


Hi, I may be able to help you and I'm sorry I didn't see your post earlier.  I'm an eBay seller, but I worked for a number of years as a professional paralegal and document drafter for several large corporate-commercial law firms in Vancouver, BC.   I can tell you with certainty that this message is not legitimate.  For your sake, and for the sake of others who may be targeted with this sort of bullying, here is why: 

 

1) I've reviewed the text you posted and marked specifically the portions that are absolutely markers of a false or fraudulent "legal" letter.   Not much left, is there!  Really, I laughed out loud at this so-called "notice".    

 

It has come to our attention that you are STILL IN VIOLATION with Federal Trademark and unfair competition laws of Petmate, Chuckit!, JW Pet, FAT CAT, Aspen Pet, Ruffmaxx, Dogzilla, Doskocil, Booda, Precision Pet Products, Jackson Galaxy, Muttnation, WWE, Zoobilee, Wetnoz, CALMZwith its principal place of business in Arlington, Texas. You HAVE IGNORED COMPLIANCE with our trademarks by continuing to sell our products online. You have exceeded your 5 days to remove all of our products sold by you online. Please remove all of our products immediately or we will be forced to pursue all legal remedies available to us under Federal Trademark and unfair competition laws. 

 

2) Aside from specifics about this text (which are too long to post here), there are other telltale mistakes the sender has made: 

  • A bona fide law firm representing a rights holder would not be contacting you, the seller.  They would first complain to the legally responsible party, the platform on which you sell (eBay).  
  • Such a letter would not be sent by email, even in today's "online" world.  Any legitimate legal notice would be sent by mail first, usually by registered mail to prove receipt, in the event that a legal claim might be required to be filed.  Even in the U.S., no civil claim can be instituted without first having proof of notice on the recipient (defendant).   
  • Such a letter would always be signed on behalf of the actual corporate owner of the trade marks, either by an in-house lawyer or corporate law firm, and would specify eBay as the offending party. 
  • Although the letter might be more or less standard (boilerplate), it would  always, ALWAYS be on the formal letterhead of the company or law firm. 
  • You might receive a copy of that letter by mail, but most likely you'd be contacted by eBay on their receipt of the notice. 
  • If the rights owner is a VeRO registrant on eBay, the process would essentially be the same.  

You did the right thing in notifying eBay about this, and they gave you the right advice to ignore it.  I would go further and suggest that you not contact the company or companies who own these products in any way, but report this fraudulent letter to the authorities.  There are governmental internet watchdog agencies that may be able to deal with the source of this chicanery.   I'm afraid I don't have a link for you immediately, but someone else here may be able to suggest an internet fraud reporting site connected with the federal government or an international authority.  

 

Since I did this sort of work for so many years, it's actually a fun exercise for me to analyze the stupidities in a fraudulent "notice".  Rather than clog up this discussion with a lengthy exegesis, I'll do it off-line and post it shortly as a jpeg scan.   

Message 23 of 30
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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

Thank you so much! I think you removed any doubt I had left!

 

I look forward to seeing this jpeg as well!! 🙂 🙂

Message 24 of 30
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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?


@vip-marketplace wrote:

Thank you so much! I think you removed any doubt I had left!

 

I look forward to seeing this jpeg as well!! 🙂 🙂


I'm so glad I could help.  This whole thing just screamed "fraud" to me.  My guess -- perhaps an unknown competitor of yours with a friend who thought they could handle drafting a legal notification.  Haha, was actually quite entertaining, but be careful not to ever use that return email address.  This whole thing could be a doorway to malware! 

 

Actually, it now occurs to me that this may have been the real  purpose of the "notices".  In fact, it doesn't make sense, on second thought, that a competitor would bother with someone selling just a few particular items.  If that were the true purpose, you'd think they'd target eBay retailers selling hundreds of these products (of course, they'd be likely to have a lawyer who would tell them immediately what nonsense these "notices" were!).  Which means, the scam is best perpetrated on those who are unlikely to ignore these "notices" and unable to afford a legal professional to take a look at them.  From that perspective, it makes sense as a fright-scam. 

 

It's common for online scammers and fraudsters to use fear to draw recipients into a trap.  You never know what's on the end of that email address, and it may be even more menacing than the meaningless threats about trademarks. 

 

I'll see if I can find you an appropriate internet fraud reporting site. 

Message 25 of 30
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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

I'd suggest you print out both of the messages you received, in order to have a permanent record of them for scanning and reporting to authorities.  It might not be wise to keep them on your computer or other device, or to forward them directly.  I'm thinking that if this is mainly intended as an internet hacking device, even those messages could contain problematic code.  When I opened the second "notice" you posted above, downloaded it, then tried to view it on Windows 10 "Photos", it was doing some very fishy things, such as resizing itself.  I've deleted it from my laptop. 

 

I converted the Word document of my "analysis" to PDF, but it won't upload here, so I'll have to scan it as a jpeg and try again. 

 

Incidentally, did you receive the first "notice" to your personal email address, or via eBay messages?  If the latter, you should try to point eBay in that direction (one of the eBay Canada reps may be able to help -- try happy_pigeon, or wait until tyler is back). 

 

If you received the message on your own, personal email, then this could be a more nefarious situation.  It would mean that either someone has hacked into your eBay account and got hold of your personal details, or is a former buyer of yours (who also happens to be an internet scammer).  It's conceivable -- although less likely -- that a clever hacker might deliberately purchase a small item intending to get your email to target you with these fraudulent scare tactics.  As you know, buyers are able to see your personal details, including your own email account, when they make a purchase.  

 

Either way, I think I'd be inclined to bring this up with one of the eBay Canada reps at the very least.  

Message 26 of 30
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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

Here's one federal site that may be of help in reporting internet fraud: 

 

http://www.antifraudcentre-centreantifraude.ca/reportincident-signalerincident/index-eng.htm

 

And of course, there is always the RCMP who have become really up to speed on internet investigations: 

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/scams-fraudes/phishing-eng.htm

 

You might want to review the descriptions of common phishing frauds on the above RCMP page.  A lot of bells ringing there, e.g.: 

 

  • The content of a phishing e-mail or text message is intended to trigger a quick reaction from you. It can use upsetting or exciting information, demand an urgent response or employe a false pretense or statement. Phishing messages are normally not personalized.

 

 

Message 27 of 30
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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

Here's the best I could do, trying to scan from Word into 3 jpeg images.  You'll probably have to enlarge your screen view to be able to read it.  Analyzing this ridiculous "notice" was a bit of fun for me, but I'm really beginning to think that the legal notice was just a ploy to draw you into contacting that email address and letting who-knows-what loose from Pandora's box. 

 

Please try to report this possible hacking attempt!  You'd be doing a great favour to the whole seller community.

 

 

Fraudulent Notice-Pg1 001.jpgFraudulent Notice-Pg2 001.jpgFraudulent Notice-Pg3 001.jpg 

Message 28 of 30
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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

Haha, it looks like these clowns went down the list on this website to get pet product names, but got some wrong, missed a few, or picked trademarks from other companies, in other words, a mish-mash of product names without specifying who the actual owner(s) of the registered marks are, which makes for a clearly fake legal notice.  They also seem to have picked up the Arlington, Texas address from the contact section on this site: 

 

https://www.petmate.com/brands/category/petmate-brands

 

By the way, I wouldn't start by contacting this company.  Start with the RCMP and let them do the investigative work if they need to. 

Message 29 of 30
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Received second legal threat - eBay told me to ignore... Would you?

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this!

This was really interesting and fun to read! 🙂

 

I will definitely report them as well!

Message 30 of 30
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