Wynne's green at any cost agenda

valve37
Community Member

Dammed Heritage, Damned Consumers

 

Next week, a company called Swift River Energy Limited will start ripping up the landscape to dam the waterfalls at the heart of the town of Bala, Ontario. The 4.5 MW project, located where Lake Muskoka issues into the Moon River, would produce a trivial amount of useful power. Most of the output will be delivered when Ontario and neighbouring utilities are already over-supplied. Ontario consumers will pay far above market rates for every drop of its juice — up to 17.685 cents/kWh. For the foreseeable future, the consumers benefiting from this project will be in Michigan and New York. They will pay pennies on the dollar for the exported power. Lost will be an ancient portage route travelled for centuries by aboriginal people, explorers, fur traders, and more recently by recreational paddlers. Where there is today a public park with free parking and a place for folks to picnic, view the falls, swim and fish, in its place will be a concrete impoundment and powerhouse, probably surrounded with a barbed wire fence. As documented in this post from Mitchell Shnier, the project’s development has been facilitated by a bogus Environmental Assessment process administered by conflicted government agencies charged with implementing the government’s green-at-all-cost agenda. The process has been based on phoney information from the proponent. Reasonable compromises proposed by concerned citizens that could have preserved some of the historic and amenity values of this unique site were simply ignored. The destruction of Bala Falls is what we get when energy policy decisions are driven by public opinion polls. Most folks in Ontario think that hydro-power is environmentally friendly and cheap. All three political parties spout similar nonsense on how Ontario needs more hydro power. The reality of new hydro power in Ontario is very different than historic hydro power. The good power generation sites were developed long ago. The last hydro power project constructed in Ontario that delivers net value for consumers today is probably OPG’s 82 MW Arnprior GS, completed in 1977 for $89 million (that included the spillway dam too). Reflecting the fact that the only hydro power sites left have marginal production potential that is very costly to exploit, every project since then has been a loser for consumers. Ontario’s few remaining wild waterfalls are precious treasures, like old growth forests. Throwing them away for a miserable little bit of useful power at drastic expense is a testament to the current state of green thinking. Here is a previous posting on ruinous hydro power development referencing the excellent work of the Ontario River’s Alliance that might interest folks following the story: http://www.tomadamsenergy.com/2012/06/14/water-power-developments-ugly-side/ Post script 4:45 pm October 16: After posting this commentary, I found this news report indicating that there may be some chance of reprieve for Bala Falls. More details are available on here.

 

http://www.tomadamsenergy.com/2014/10/16/dammed-heritage-damned-consumers/#more-5387

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
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Wynne's green at any cost agenda

Wynne's green at any cost agenda

The duelling googlers lol
Message 3 of 25
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Wynne's green at any cost agenda

4.5mw trumps a Muskoka gem.

 

Read the comments to:

 

http://savethebalafalls.com/

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
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Wynne's green at any cost agenda

Are you concerned with the environment Valve?

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Unless each day can be looked back upon by an individual
as one in which he has had some fun, some joy, some
real satisfaction, that day is a loss.
Message 5 of 25
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Wynne's green at any cost agenda

Yes, the environment being destroyed at Bala for a mere 4.5mw! And not to mention the thousands of wind turbines ruining it as well in Southern Ontario.

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
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Wynne's green at any cost agenda

Then you might be interested in "The Climate Change Performance Index for 2014"

 

https://germanwatch.org/en/download/8599.pdf

 

This statement jumped out at me: ( on pg. 4 )

 

As in the previous year, Canada still shows no intention of moving forward with climate policy and therefore remains the worst performer of all industrialised countries.

 

Canada is in the 10 top CO2 emitters.

 

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Unless each day can be looked back upon by an individual
as one in which he has had some fun, some joy, some
real satisfaction, that day is a loss.
Message 7 of 25
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Wynne's green at any cost agenda

"As in the previous year, Canada still shows no intention of moving forward with climate policy and therefore remains the worst performer of all industrialised countries."

Message 8 of 25
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Wynne's green at any cost agenda

significant the chart shows we are the lowest overall contributor of CO2 @1.58%. That's pretty good considering the cold climate we live in 6 months of the year requiring gobs of energy to keep warm and run our vehicles. Not much will change unless the so called climate warming catches up with us.

Well maybe if the NDP or Liberals get elected and substantially limit oil sands growth or shut it down completely we could go down to contributing 1%.

The loss of royalties, jobs etc would be really good for our standard of living, health care, division of revenue etc.

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
Message 9 of 25
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Wynne's green at any cost agenda

"The loss of royalties, jobs etc would be really good for our standard of living, health care, division of revenue etc."

 

Like many in the Conservative government, I am truly sorry to see from your comments so much misunderstanding of the facts.

 

As you stated so well, "...considering the cold climate we live in 6 months of the year requiring gobs of energy to keep warm...", Canada does require energy.

 

However, and that is the key point, why not consider alternative renewable resources to generate more energy and lower the dependency on coal, oil and gas?  Building solar panels, hydroelectric dams and wind turbines does require labour with high paying jobs. It is not a question of shutting down the oil sands without replacing the sources of energy.

 

In addition to replacing some of the energy sources, we need to look more seriously in minimizing our use of energy.  Much as been done already in reducing the power required for light bulbs, tools, appliances, vehicles we use daily. More can be done to provide our homes, offices and factories with better insulation to lower the need for energy while living and working in a comfortable environment.

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Wynne's green at any cost agenda

"However, and that is the key point, why not consider alternative renewable resources to generate more energy and lower the dependency on coal, oil and gas? " 

 

Wynne may get caught in the pickle Germany is in by turning down nuclear for green energy. When the sun doesn't shine and/or the wind doesn't blow you have to rely on fossil. And when you turn down a nuclear power plant it can take years to restart. That's what has happened to Germany so they are back to coal to account for the global adjustment factor, even building a new coal plant.

Oh well the four coal plants that Wynne shut down are equipped with scrubbers so fire up those mighty machines. Of course we may never have a shortage with what exists today what with manufacturing all but gone due to unions along with high electricity costs and going higher.

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
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Wynne's green at any cost agenda

Valve - stop thinking about today in one province within a low population country.

 

Think BIG. 

 

Think about the future for your children and grandchildren on a global basis.  Do not let partisan politics get in the way of clear thinking.

Message 12 of 25
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Wynne's green at any cost agenda

we need to look more seriously in minimizing our use of energy

 

You could say that again!

 

We think we're a high-end modern country. I think we are going to have a rude awakening.

 

We live in a cold climate so therefore have to use energy inefficiently

 

What an absolute load that is.

 

Our entire heating industry is set up to feed the inefficient oil & gas racket and continue supporting the various leeches and phony ponzi schemes that abound.

 

Just look at the heat pump industry. The whole thing set up with finance companies, commission sales organizations, the whole nine yards, all on pretenses that "you'll save enough over ten years to pay the whole cost". Never mind the unit should have cost half the price in the first place. Almost non-existent retail sales points. Virtually no competition. A handful of choices available in the entire country for 35 million people.

 

Meanwhile if you really look into it, you find out there are hundreds if not thousands of different makes, models and technologies that are not available in Canada. All of which should have been designed and patented in Alberta and Ontario 20 if not 50 years ago, considering the excess cash that was flying around. But no, our MBAs were too busy outsourcing our entire infrastructure to Asia to actually create anything. And our engineers were too busy rubber stamping windfall oil industry profits.

 

If the truth were known, I am sure that for the price of any one of these pipelines they're going on about now, you could install high tech low energy heating across 95% the country, either heat pumps, mini heat pump splits, ground source heat pumps or what have you, run the whole works with left over power from Hydro Quebec and shut down 98% of fossil fuel heating and power generation in the country.

 

The thing is, while we were snoring though decades of growing fat on a resource extraction and offshore outsourcing economy, guess what? Some countries actually continued to progress.

 

 

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A lot of CO² emmitted in the previous post.

 

"Meanwhile if you really look into it, you find out there are hundreds if not thousands of different makes, models and technologies that are not available in Canada."

 

Wonder what and where? Appears green energy and carbon taxes for Europe are woefully inadequate. What? They haven't latched onto what you speak of either? Or have they and it's a failure? We best use caution.  

 

Europe’s energy woes The storm over new European Union climate-change targets

 

ENERGY and green policies should be ideal for common European action. Pollutants know no borders. The cost of renewables such as wind turbines and solar panels can be cut, and their drawbacks mitigated, if they are linked across Europe. When the wind stops blowing in Germany the sun shines in Spain; if both sources die down, French nuclear plants or Swiss hydroelectric stations can take up the slack. A proper European-level emissions-trading scheme should minimise the cost of reducing greenhouse gases. And a successful low-carbon transition should reduce dependence on imported fossil fuels.

Yet the reality is messier. The EU struggles with a hotch-potch of national policies, conflicting and expensive subsidies, Balkanised energy markets and ever-growing reliance on fuel imports. After years of crisis, Europeans are more concerned with the cost of climate-change policies than with their benefits. European industries pay three to four times more for gas, and over twice as much for electricity, as American ones (which benefit from cheap shale gas). One reason Europe has so far met its emissions targets is its long economic slump. Yet recession and deindustrialisation are hardly a climate-change policy.

 

So the EU’s new planned emissions targets, announced this week, were contentious. When wages are being squeezed to regain export competitiveness, it is hard to sell the idea of higher energy prices, particularly when the rest of the world is doing too little to cut greenhouse gases. The current policy is known as 20-20-20: by 2020 its members should reduce greenhouse-gas emissions by 20% (relative to levels in 1990), with 20% of the mix produced from renewable sources and a 20% improvement in energy efficiency. After an unusually acrimonious internal debate, the European Commission called this week for the ambition to be raised to a 40% reduction in emissions by 2030. It wants a “binding” EU-wide target of at least 27% for the share of renewables, though there would be no new national targets for renewable energy. The commission also refrained from proposing new legislation to regulate the development of shale gas.

The decision to give greater flexibility for countries to determine their own energy mix is a victory for Britain. But there were protests from several quarters. Green lobbyists called the targets too tame. By 2030, many say, Europe needs a 55% emissions cut, with 45% of energy derived from renewables, if it is to meet a goal of cutting greenhouse gases by 80-95% in 2050 (the cut in rich-world emissions deemed necessary to limit the rise in global temperatures to below 2°C). By contrast the EU’s business lobby is alarmed about rising energy costs, and says the EU is at risk of naively becoming “a lone front-runner without followers”.

Increasingly, the commission has had to cast the argument in terms of saving Europe rather than the planet. A long-range policy gives predictability to investors in low-carbon technology, it says; such investment, in turn, spurs innovation and the creation of green-tech industries. For the countries of the troubled southern periphery, renewable technology would help redress trade deficits; for those on the eastern fringe, it would reduce vulnerability to bullying by Russia. In a sop to industry, the commission proposes to maintain free emissions allocations to an ever-growing number of sectors deemed to be vulnerable to rising energy costs (including makers of clocks and musical instruments).

The commission’s own models suggest the new targets could make output fall by nearly 0.5% of GDP in 2030 (compared with current trends); or increase by a similar amount if energy-savings measures were strengthened, free allowances scrapped and a carbon tax applied across the rest of the economy. A bigger emissions cut of 45% appears to do no more damage. But such a proposal would be dead on arrival at the March European summit. “The art of politics is to propose something that is achievable,” says Connie Hedegaard, the climate-change commissioner.

Europe’s confusion is due, in part, to conflicting national priorities. Germany is giving up nuclear power and betting heavily on solar and wind energy (all while burning more coal). France remains heavily committed to nuclear and bans shale-gas exploration. Britain is going all-out for shale gas (and nuclear), being a laggard in renewables. But it also does not help that Brussels has too many commissioners with overlapping responsibilities. The latest package was agreed on only after an 11th-hour battle between Ms Hedegaard and Günther Oettinger, the German energy commissioner who, unlike the German government, wanted only a modest emissions-reduction target of 35%.

 

The fury over emissions targets misses a deeper problem: Europe’s carbon and energy markets are dysfunctional. The emissions trading scheme was meant to put a price on carbon to encourage alternatives. But poor policy design, a recession and too many exemptions mean the price has collapsed. The commission has proposed a sort of “central bank” of emissions permits to stabilise the market, but it will take years to sort out.

And although many are right to worry that Europe’s energy prices are higher than its competitors’, too little attention is paid to wild differences within Europe. Households and businesses in some EU countries pay up to four times more for gas or electricity than in others. Wholesale prices are falling or flat, but retail prices are rising because of differing regulations, price controls, taxes and levies (eg, to pay for renewables). Spain generates large amounts of solar and wind power, but can export little to France given poor grid interconnections. Unless Europe’s markets are fixed so that emissions permits, gas and electricity can be traded across the continent, ever more ambitious climate-change targets risk becoming an ever more expensive failure.

 

http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21595018-storm-over-new-european-union-climate-change-targets-e...

 

 

 

 

 

 

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
Message 14 of 25
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Wynne's green at any cost agenda

valve you seem to have missed the part about "looking into it". Just because these technologies have not been revealed to us Canadians over the years, doesn't mean they don't exist!

 

I know I know, your Home Depot only has one heat pump in the entire building the size of a city block - and it's not even for sale it's just a teaser to try to get you to call a rep. According to anything you'll see in your Home Depot, ground source heat pumps do not exist, heat exchangers of any type (with the exception of refrigerators which they do sell LOL) do not exist, mini ductless heat pump heating/cooling systems do not exist, air or ground source heat pump water heaters do not exist, etc., etc.

 

But do a search for "ductless mini split heat pump" even on ebay, you will notice a strange thing - the little fire logo burning on each listing, denoting a "hot" in demand item. No wonder, they are so well hidden from Canadian consumers!

 

Search for these products on alibaba - you'll find out that practically every consumer tech company you've ever heard of (Samsung, Fujitsu, LG, etc etc...) have complete lines of this stuff - and the more you look into it, the more you'll learn Valve!

 

 

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Wynne's green at any cost agenda

Heat pumps use electricity>  The most expensive form of energy in Canada.

 

Heat pumps will not  operate efficiently  at temperatures below -6C  . requiring supplementary heat.

 

Operating a heat pump  would  cost about twice  as much as natural gas and produce about three times the pollution, just in a different location.

Message 16 of 25
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Wynne's green at any cost agenda

Geothermal pumps work great even at 30 below here in Manitoba. No other heat source is needed depending on the size of the building and the land you have to work with.They can lower your heating costs by up to 70%. 

 

My Pastor went Geothermal for his house years ago and has never looked back. Cheap to run, even heating in the winter and cooling

in the summer. He has no other source of heat.

 

Manitoba Hydro also offers to help finance anyone who wants to go Geothermal.

https://www.hydro.mb.ca/your_home/geothermal_heat_pumps/how_it_works.shtml

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Unless each day can be looked back upon by an individual
as one in which he has had some fun, some joy, some
real satisfaction, that day is a loss.
Message 17 of 25
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Wynne's green at any cost agenda

nu you keep forgetting that Canada is not a province of Ontario - it is the other way around!

Message 18 of 25
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Wynne's green at any cost agenda

Operating a heat pump  would  cost about twice  as much as natural gas and produce about three times the pollution, just in a different location.

 

 

Geothermal heat pumps, as well as all other types of heat pumps, have efficiencies rated according to their coefficient of performance, or COP. It’s a scientific way of determining how much energy the system moves versus how much it uses. Most geothermal heat pump systems have COPs of 3.0 to 5.0. This means for every unit of energy used to power the system, three to five units are supplied as heat.

 

1.     Geothermal HVAC systems are not considered a renewable technology because they use electricity.

Fact: Geothermal HVAC systems use only one unit of electricity to move up to five units of cooling or heating from the earth to a building.

 

2.     Photovoltaic and wind power are more favorable renewable technologies when compared to geothermal HVAC systems.

Fact: Geothermal HVAC systems remove four times more kilowatt-hours of consumption from the electrical grid per dollar spent than photovoltaic and wind power add to the electrical grid. Those other technologies can certainly play an important role, but geothermal HVAC is often the most cost effective way to reduce environmental impact of conditioning spaces.

 

http://energyblog.nationalgeographic.com/2013/09/17/10-myths-about-geothermal-heating-and-cooling/

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Unless each day can be looked back upon by an individual
as one in which he has had some fun, some joy, some
real satisfaction, that day is a loss.
Message 19 of 25
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Wynne's green at any cost agenda

What is the cost and how many years to pay back? Geothermal might physically fit into about 1% of urban lots. Most would rather put in a swimming pool if there were a choice!

 

Do you have geothermal Art or any other of those goodies you named? Do you drive a lithium powered vehicle? Walk the talk!   

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."--Unknown
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