anyone else think US and other NAto countries should have just left well enough alone

[brandeentertainment]

I mean Crimea was part of Russia 1954 and earlier ... CRimea is made up of mostly Russians Today so for the most part They wanted to become part of russia again ...

I mean Looking at everything from Putins point of view they have not really broken any law as of yet (EVen though the Western Media and presidents and PM are all making it out to be that way it's not so cut and dry as they make it seem....

Sure maybe it was not the best move but it was a movie that most of Crimea wanted anyways .....

Honestly Putin is no saint and Russia is now yet a power house but Putin has done for Russia what no other leader have done for Canada or the US .. I mean Putin has turned Russia into a power house and although much of the cuontry is still very poor they have come a long way ...

I think Ukraine ever joining NATO is such  bad movie .. Ukraine nd Georgia have both been denied becoming part of NATO but have been told they will eventually be allowed in ... THAT IS A HORRIBLE MOVE .....

I mean now instead of Russia just helping the people of Crimea everything is getting Very messy now that NATO is involved and it getting worse then better thus far ..

I mean Russia and China are not all up in our lands and waters so why is US EVERYWHERE  right now like literally everywhere ...

I maybe one of the few who pay attention to this stuff but This all strikes me as just a power play by the US to once again let the world know they are in our backyards and not to be messed with no matter where you live in this world ...

[valve37]

I agree with Brand. Read about ruthless Stalin and the Russian Czars before him. NATO hands down!

[rafael.xavier]

Russians are also victims to Stalinism. Let me present similar ridiculous argument: Stalin was not even Russian and Romanov family was all murdered so bloodline was terminated. Canada never done any nation wrong, right? Any Aboriginals or Japanese on this board? According to that argument, we are all responsible, because we are Canadians.

NATO leaves death and destruction anywhere they go, they violate international laws, but because they control media, money and justice, they are untouchable.

Russia did not go quietly into Washington's sheephold so they will become pariah state. Unfortunately for all of us, this is not going to be everyone vs Russia, but Washington and their allies against rest of the world.

Continue listening Washington war propaganda or choose to get info from people who go to wars to help instead of take sides or someones oil, like Human Rights Watch or Doctors without Borders.

[valve37]

"Continue listening Washington war propaganda or choose to get info from people who go to wars to help instead of take sides or someones oil, like Human Rights Watch or Doctors without Borders." Yes Rafael, ISIS has a job for you!

[rafael.xavier]

Valve37, tell your employer I decline the offer. Btw. recruiting on public board for terrorist group, or posing as if, not too smart.

[valve37]

Rafael, from your post you appear to be anti American. Keep in mind the US saved the free world from Nazism and Imperialism in the 40s and would bail Canada out if it ever became necessary. Who else is going to step forward or even has the capability to defeat ISIS?

[rafael.xavier]

You are generalizing once again. I am absolutely not anti american, but I anti-NATO and strongly disagree with politics of current US administration, who does not even represent interests of average Americans anymore.

[pierrelebel]

"strongly disagree with politics of current US administration,"

???

Does your comment suggests that you actually agree with the previous US administrations (Bush Sr and  Bush Jr ?

[pierrelebel]

Prior - where are you?

Your input is needed on these questions.

[rafael.xavier]

---

@pierrelebel wrote:

"strongly disagree with politics of current US administration,"

???

Does your comment suggests that you actually agree with the previous US administrations (Bush Sr and  Bush Jr ?

---

It does suggest nothing of sort. FWIW my opinion about Bush Jr is a war criminal.

---

@valve37 wrote:
Rafael, from your post you appear to be anti American. Keep in mind the US saved the free world from Nazism and Imperialism in the 40s and would bail Canada out if it ever became necessary. Who else is going to step forward or even has the capability to defeat ISIS?

---

Valve37, again off topic, this discussion is about NATO leaving Ukraine alone, but ok:

Version of history I learned makes Soviet Union saviour. 8.7-13.8M military deaths vs 407k by USA. Lend-lease accounted for 5% of Soviet production in tanks. It's for another discussion, let's agree to disagree on this one.

Arab League States declared war on ISIS and they have resources and willpower to carry on, USA is not needed. What business has USA bombing sovereign state of Syria without consulting Syria? Is world going to condemn and sanction USA for interference in sovereign state in internal conflict or do we use double standard here?

[rafael.xavier]

Geography can be tough. Here’s a guide for USA soldiers who keep getting lost & ‘accidentally’ entering other countries:

[valve37]

"Arab League States declared war on ISIS and they have resources and willpower to carry on, USA is not needed. What business has USA bombing sovereign state of Syria without consulting Syria? Is world going to condemn and sanction USA for interference in sovereign state in internal conflict or do we use double standard here?" Religious factions among the Arab States will be a big hurdle for them accomplishing anything. So far without that US carrier group air support the Kurds would be overun and ISIS would be in Baghdad by now.

[fixmusic2013]

Valve wants Canada to go to war with ISIS. Why dont you join the military and prove your loyalty to our country?.

[art-in-the-making]

A good time to comment on this thread after having the occasion to reflect on 9-11 yesterday.

Even now the security measures that we are forced to tolerate, mostly arising from 9-11, go way over the line as far as I'm concerned.

How we chart a secure yet peaceful and equitable course into the future is getting harder to imagine.

 In general, times are changing faster than our ability to foresee and/or cope with all the consequences. The Bush Jr / Harper response is rash, foolish, aggressive, oppressive, ideological-driven measures. I see this type of action as a short-term, super-shortsighted way of maintaining an unsatisfactory status quo by force - creating a growing dissatisfaction around the world that is sure to end in disaster.

Probably what needs to happen is intensive socio-economic research and modelling, of a nature that is only recently possible due to the complexity of the world, that would show a way towards transitioning into a future system that would give everyone a chance to have a satisfactory life and yet still maintain basic freedoms and accommodate a variety of beliefs.

[valve37]

"give everyone a chance to have a satisfactory life and yet still maintain basic freedoms and accommodate a variety of beliefs." Having said all that Art how do you propose to deal with ISIS radical Islam jihadists based on Sharia law. Let it be until it hits our shores or extinguish it on mid east shores? ISIS is hell bent on establishing a radical Islam state in the mid east and destroying western values. ISIS is already on our shores. 130 radicals have left Canada to fight with ISIS however the fear is they can come back with their Cnadian passports to raise hell here. How do you propose to deal with that? http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/world/canada-isis-jihadists/

[valve37]

"Valve wants Canada to go to war with ISIS. Why dont you join the military and prove your loyalty to our country?." Ny grandfather did that for me on Vimy Ridge WWI 12 April 1917. And while he didn't die in that final battle he suffered terribly the rest of his shortened life from being gassed and sharpnel wounds.

[fixmusic2013]

What does your grandfather have to do with you proving your loyalty to Canada?. You want war with ISIS? You want to police the world?.

Join the military or maybe you are not loyal to this country?.

[art-in-the-making]

Valve says,

"Let it be until it hits our shores or extinguish it on mid east shores?"

Recognizing that the main reason why ISIS exists is because of the monumentally botched and failed Bush war on Iraq (which Harper enthusiastically supported), we might be well advised to consider very carefully what other misadventures we want to fail at in the mid-east or elsewhere.

[valve37]

Sounds like Art you have the solution to the current ISIS crisis. Do remote viewing and roll back to a time before Bush and start all over again.. That outa solve what the world is now facing. Yep it's that old shouda, woulda couda scenerio, doesn't work. Gotta say Art this ISIS crisis trumps global warming, d'ya think?

[art-in-the-making]

The point is valve that a solution of "extinguishing" the problem by military means is very likely just more of the same Bush/Harper adolescent fantasy that the Iraq debacle was.

And if Iraq and Afghanistan led to the result of ISIS coming into being (rather than the eliminatiion Al Qaeda) - then what will be the result of a failed attempt to "extinguish" ISIS by force?

To look at the problem from another angle - if there are x number of ISIS recruits going out - how many of these do you think are the result of

*the Israeli Gaza campaign

*policies like Quebec's ridiculous "charter" proposal

*economic inequality

* etc etc

[pierrelebel]

"*policies like Quebec's ridiculous "charter" proposal"

Now you have my attention.  What exactly do you mean?