Comments about the Global Shipping Program

[kalvin@ebay.com]

Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here. 

A few questions to get the ball rolling:

• What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
• Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
• What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
• How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Please try & keep the comments constructive 🙂

If you have any questions about the program, please post them here.

[afantiques]

Is it a scam? yes, tons of voices with evidence here.

Very little to zero evidence, loads of opinion. It is not a 'scam' any more than paying more than bus fare for air travel is a 'scam'. It's an expensive way of doing something that can be done cheaper. But, it is not the same process as the cheaper alternative. Just the same end result. More or less.

Who benefits from it? Canadians ? Canadian Govt? or is it Ebay-Pitney.Bowes combo? The money goes straight to their wallets, majority of it, peanuts eventually will find their way back to Canada.

The import charges mostly go the Canadian Government, the shipping charges mostly go to the companies and in the case of Canada, the postal service, who do the actual transport of the items.

It's ebay and PB who get the peanuts. Enough peanuts may make a worthwhile pile but it's nowhere near the bonanza for the organisers that people commonly think.

[chimera148]

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@proxyx99 wrote:

Few thoughts:

 Who benefits from it? Canadians ? Canadian Govt? or is it Ebay-Pitney.Bowes combo?

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🙂  PAYPAL ?

[marnotom!]

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@proxyx99 wrote:

It is up to Canadian Gov. to collect what they feel is owed. If they want to collect on every item they have a capability and resources to do so. If they choose not to collect on every item it is their own prerogative to act or fail to act accordingly. Not Ebay's business.

Ebay cannot hide behind a notion that it's in public interest collecting what is owed. It is solely Canadian business, not Ebay's.

---

You seem to be writing from the perspective of someone who has always imported their items by mail.  The mail system is actually oddball in how it deals with taxes collected on imports.  With all other methods of shipment, the importer either has to pay the taxes and duty owing on the import(s) at the point of entry into Canada or else have them put on some sort of ledger with a guarantee that they'll be paid later.  Taxes and duty don't get paid at the time of delivery to the recipient.

Pitney Bowes acts as importer on a Global Shipping Program shipment and they're the ones responsible for remitting taxes/duty due on a GSP item.  Part of your "import charges" go toward what Pitney Bowes pays.

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@proxyx99 wrote:

Is it a scam? yes, tons of voices with evidence here. Who benefits from it? Canadians ? Canadian Govt? or is it Ebay-Pitney.Bowes combo? The money goes straight to their wallets, majority of it, peanuts eventually will find their way back to Canada.

---

You sound absolutely certain of that, but I've seen no evidence that eBay or Pitney Bowes bigwigs are padding the lining of their suit jackets with GSP monies.

The GSP isn't a scam.  It's certainly an expensive and inappropriate way to ship the types of items that most Canadian eBayers buy on eBay, which are small, modestly-valued items that are straightforward to ship as oversize letters, but as far as I can see, there's nothing fraudulent about it.

[marnotom!]

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@chimera148 wrote:

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@proxyx99 wrote:

Few thoughts:

 Who benefits from it? Canadians ? Canadian Govt? or is it Ebay-Pitney.Bowes combo?

---

🙂  PAYPAL ?

---

Little more than how PayPal would benefit from an international sale from the US shipped directly to the buyer.

From what I've gathered, PayPal's commission rate on a GSP sale is the same as a regular domestic sale, not an international sale which is one percent greater.

[chimera148]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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@chimera148 wrote:

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@proxyx99 wrote:

Few thoughts:

 Who benefits from it? Canadians ? Canadian Govt? or is it Ebay-Pitney.Bowes combo?

---

🙂  PAYPAL ?

---

Little more than how PayPal would benefit from an international sale from the US shipped directly to the buyer.

From what I've gathered, PayPal's commission rate on a GSP sale is the same as a regular domestic sale, not an international sale which is one percent greater.

---

Well, when the GSP import and shipping charges can easily increase the total transaction value 15-30+%,  I'd think the paypal charges rise accordingly for the buyer ? Even on an item worth less than CAD20.00.

 Are you thinking international buyers are not paying Paypals international commission rate on a GSP sale ?

I don't expect Paypal is charging any less on charges to handle currency exchanges for the 15-30+% higher priced GSP transactions, so that should benefit Paypal accordingly also. 

[marnotom!]

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@chimera148 wrote:

Well, when the GSP import and shipping charges can easily increase the total transaction value 15-30+%,  I'd think the paypal charges rise accordingly for the buyer ? Even on an item worth less than CAD20.00.

 Are you thinking international buyers are not paying Paypals international commission rate on a GSP sale ?

I don't expect Paypal is charging any less on charges to handle currency exchanges for the 15-30+% higher priced GSP transactions, so that should benefit Paypal accordingly also. 

---

Buyers don't pay fees to use PayPal, but sellers do, although it could be argued that buyers pay a li'l sumfin as part of the currency conversion process, but that's true of pretty much any transaction where currency has to be converted, PayPal or not.

If you've used the term "buyers" when you meant "sellers," keep in mind that the only fees sellers would pay to PayPal would be charged on the item price and the shipping rate to the Global Shipping Center in Erlanger, KY.  Pitney Bowes would be responsible for any PayPal fees that would be charged on the import charges and shipping charges from Kentucky to the buyer, and I wouldn't be surprised if PBI negotiated a special deal with eBay/PayPal on that portion.

[00nevermind00]

Ebay and PB being "for profit" organizations, there has to be a "li'l sumfin", as you put it, in it for both of them. Neither of them is doing this convoluted GSP thing out of the goodness of their nice little corporate hearts. PB is trying to keep from going under. As for eBay, I agree with those who say that what they're really after is an increase in international sales rather than any form of "kickback" from PB.

I sure would love to see the numbers on the GSP, without the corporate spin.

[00nevermind00]

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@afantiques wrote:

Is it a scam? yes, tons of voices with evidence here.

Very little to zero evidence, loads of opinion. It is not a 'scam' any more than paying more than bus fare for air travel is a 'scam'. It's an expensive way of doing something that can be done cheaper. But, it is not the same process as the cheaper alternative. Just the same end result. More or less.

---

There's tons of evidence of unhappy (very unhappy!) buyers, for sure. There's also lots of evidence of a poorly thought-out, poorly implemented scheme. But no evidence of a scam. Just an overpriced "service" which often has no added benefit for the buyer.

[bp-elec1]

It is a scam in my opinion since you have to fight with ebay GSP and PB and you still do not get a legal receipt.

It does not matter if you are a business or a private person.

If you buy something and taxes are charged you have the right to receive a legal and detailed receipt for your money.

GSP tells me if I have a business I can not have things shipped by GSP to me.

It is for private purchases only???

So I have to spend extra time contacting the seller ahead of the end of the auction - get them to change the auction to allow non GSP sales and then bid on the item.

And how many people actually do this?

And how much is ebay losing because of this bs?

GSP costs too much - takes too long and because they do not issue a legal receipt I feel it is a scam and open to abuse by ebay and PB employees.  Without a legal paper-trail for the money that the buyer pays the seller thru GSP we have no actual proof that the taxes they say are paid are actually paid to the Canadian or any other government agency.

If a legal receipt was issued in the beginning then all there would be to complain about is the long delivery and higher costs of shipping.

IMO GSP is a probable move toward the end of ebay as an international trading site.

Will it still be in existence in 5 years? I think it is  doubtful when they are making these types of "business" decisions.....

[cylie1970]

I am feeling robbed by Pitney Bowes and ebay, as the middle man, has really no right to incorporate shipping costs when they get money from the sale itself. I am a Canadian and if I am browsing for something, I look for specifics now because of the shipping cost. I am paying around 13.00 - 25.00 shipping and a 7.00 - 11.00 in import fees per item. I now shop on ebay.com and contact the seller to see if they will ship first class which for items I buy costs between 6.00 - 11.00 with no import tax and I have never in my life paid import taxes and if there is a parcel at the door and there is import taxes, I would pay it. This Global shipping is nailing us Canadians and a WHOLE lot of American sellers I deal with don't like shipping through Pitney Bowes because the deal is taken right out of their hands, but I have been told that the shipping part of posting an item for sale is too complicated and it is just easier to list with Pitney Bowes, even though they may not want to. I deal with a lot of American dealers and we figure out ways to get around Pitney Bowes outrageous costs. As a Canadian now, I shop on ETSY and there are a LOT of ex-ebay American sellers on there and when I inquire as to why they switched, they state that they feel they are in control of selling their items, the cost of shipping and that they too felt they were being robbed by ebay and Pitney Bowes because a Canadian would buy something, and of course the first thing you see is the "no charges at delivery" is all bright and shiny and then in little print they add import charges. On the listing, you can't even go by what the shipping cost is, for example, you see 13.25 shipping on the listing, but then you see 17.86 shipping. Which do you go buy? and you don't even know what those costs are going to. One word of advice from a lot of your Canadian buyers : GET RID OF YOUR PITNEY BOWES CONTRACT AND LEAVE THE COST OF SHIPPING TO THE BUYER AND SELLER!!!

cylie1970

[proxyx99]

Is it a scam? yes, tons of voices with evidence here.

Very little to zero evidence, loads of opinion. It is not a 'scam' any more than paying more than bus fare for air travel is a 'scam'. It's an expensive way of doing something that can be done cheaper. But, it is not the same process as the cheaper alternative. Just the same end result. More or less.

If it's not for you to choose, nor decide how and at what cost, if the middleman positions himself so there is no other way but to "choose" a more expensive option then in becomes a tax or bridge toll fee. Clearest form of extortion. Forcing people to pay when they don't have to and pay more then they used to. Don't you see how incoherent your argument is?

Who benefits from it? Canadians ? Canadian Govt? or is it Ebay-Pitney.Bowes combo? The money goes straight to their wallets, majority of it, peanuts eventually will find their way back to Canada.

The import charges mostly go the Canadian Government, the shipping charges mostly go to the companies and in the case of Canada, the postal service, who do the actual transport of the items.

It's ebay and PB who get the peanuts. Enough peanuts may make a worthwhile pile but it's nowhere near the bonanza for the organisers that people commonly think.

Right. They sacrifice time and money just to make you happy... haha. Last time I looked they collect on items they shouldn't (remember NAFTA? US made goods are 0 duty), collect more then the seller would otherwise do, collect outrageous shipping fees and make transactions more expensive by a substantial margin. But they collect peanuts, LOL. And how do you know that? Have you seen any cost breakdowns, or financial reports to back it up? Do you work for PB or Ebay btw? You push arguments without any backing. I can show you exactly how much more expensive it is for a buyer. And you respond with what? guarantees or assurances so that people have a better sleep? without any backing? just because you think so? This is beyond ridiculous. Next time bring something tangible because Ebay CFO is right now laughing all the way to the bank reading your comments.

You want to advocate for Ebay prove it. Just don't tell me it's good for me. I know best what is good for me (and many others).

Ebay was born to provide a cheaper alternative. Now it's a 900 pound gorilla twisting your arm. Haven't you noticed that?

“If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck!” ― Robin Cook

and don't tell us otherwise.

PS. how about a store with approximate prices? "want a car battery? sure, it's 60 or maybe 80 bucks, you'll find out at the cash desk but first you need to sign a contract, right here, thank you" Reminds you of something?

[proxyx99]

Is it a scam? yes, tons of voices with evidence here.

Very little to zero evidence, loads of opinion. It is not a 'scam' any more than paying more than bus fare for air travel is a 'scam'. It's an expensive way of doing something that can be done cheaper. But, it is not the same process as the cheaper alternative. Just the same end result. More or less.

If it's not for you to choose, nor decide how and at what cost, if the middleman positions himself so there is no other way but to "choose" a more expensive option then in becomes a tax or bridge toll fee. Clearest form of extortion. Forcing people to pay when they don't have to and pay more then they used to. Don't you see how incoherent your argument is?

Who benefits from it? Canadians ? Canadian Govt? or is it Ebay-Pitney.Bowes combo? The money goes straight to their wallets, majority of it, peanuts eventually will find their way back to Canada.

The import charges mostly go the Canadian Government, the shipping charges mostly go to the companies and in the case of Canada, the postal service, who do the actual transport of the items.

It's ebay and PB who get the peanuts. Enough peanuts may make a worthwhile pile but it's nowhere near the bonanza for the organisers that people commonly think.

Right. They sacrifice time and money just to make you happy... haha. Last time I looked they collect on items they shouldn't (remember NAFTA? US made goods are 0 duty), collect more then the seller would otherwise do, collect outrageous shipping fees and make transactions more expensive by a substantial margin. But they collect peanuts, LOL. And how do you know that? Have you seen any cost breakdowns, or financial reports to back it up? Do you work for PB or Ebay btw? You push arguments without any backing. I can show you exactly how much more expensive it is for a buyer. And you respond with what? guarantees or assurances so that people have a better sleep? without any backing? just because you think so? This is beyond ridiculous. Next time bring something tangible because Ebay CFO is right now laughing all the way to the bank reading your comments.

You want to advocate for Ebay prove it. Just don't tell me it's good for me. I know best what is good for me (and many others).

Ebay was born to provide a cheaper alternative. Now it's a 900 pound gorilla twisting your arm. Haven't you noticed that?

“If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck!” ― Robin Cook

and don't tell us otherwise.

PS. how about a store with approximate prices? "want a car battery? sure, it's 60 or maybe 80 bucks, you'll find out at the cash desk but first you need to sign a contract, right here, thank you" Reminds you of something?

[proxyx99]

sorry for my messy post but I don't see an option to reply with a quote, am I missing something?

[proxyx99]

Sorry had to repost, without  clear quotations it made no sense.

Is it a scam? yes, tons of voices with evidence here.

Very little to zero evidence, loads of opinion. It is not a 'scam' any more than paying more than bus fare for air travel is a 'scam'. It's an expensive way of doing something that can be done cheaper. But, it is not the same process as the cheaper alternative. Just the same end result. More or less.

(my underline)

If it's not for you to choose, nor decide how and at what cost, if the middleman positions himself so there is no other way but to "choose" a more expensive option then in becomes a tax or bridge toll fee. Clearest form of extortion. Forcing people to pay when they don't have to and pay more then they used to. Don't you see how incoherent your argument is?

Who benefits from it? Canadians ? Canadian Govt? or is it Ebay-Pitney.Bowes combo? The money goes straight to their wallets, majority of it, peanuts eventually will find their way back to Canada.

The import charges mostly go the Canadian Government, the shipping charges mostly go to the companies and in the case of Canada, the postal service, who do the actual transport of the items.

It's ebay and PB who get the peanuts. Enough peanuts may make a worthwhile pile but it's nowhere near the bonanza for the organisers that people commonly think.

Right. They sacrifice time and money just to make you happy... haha. Last time I looked they collect on items they shouldn't (remember NAFTA? US made goods are 0 duty), collect more then the seller would otherwise do, collect outrageous shipping fees and make transactions more expensive by a substantial margin. But they collect peanuts, LOL. And how do you know that? Have you seen any cost breakdowns, or financial reports to back it up? Do you work for PB or Ebay btw? You push arguments without any backing. I can show you exactly how much more expensive it is for a buyer. And you respond with what? guarantees or assurances so that people have a better sleep? without any backing? just because you think so? This is beyond ridiculous. Next time bring something tangible because Ebay CFO is right now laughing all the way to the bank reading your comments.

You want to advocate for Ebay prove it. Just don't tell me it's good for me. I know best what is good for me (and many others).

Ebay was born to provide a cheaper alternative. Now it's a 900 pound gorilla twisting your arm. Haven't you noticed that?

“If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck!” ― Robin Cook

and don't tell us otherwise.

PS. how about a store with approximate prices? "want a car battery? sure, it's 60 or maybe 80 bucks, you'll find out at the cash desk but first you need to sign a contract, right here, thank you" Reminds you of something?

[marnotom!]

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@bp-elec1 wrote:

It is a scam in my opinion since you have to fight with ebay GSP and PB and you still do not get a legal receipt.

It does not matter if you are a business or a private person.

If you buy something and taxes are charged you have the right to receive a legal and detailed receipt for your money.

---

This has been hashed out before.  Pitney Bowes is the "importer of record" on a GSP shipment and is the one on file for paying taxes and duties (if applicable) due.  What you are paying Pitney Bowes for is "import charges" which include what they're expecting to pay customs.  You're not paying the taxes/duties themselves.

Issuing a receipt for something you're not record for having paid is considered fraud.

If you disagree with this process, you need to pick holes in the process in which Pitney Bowes appoints itself importer of record and exercises that responsibility, not with the fact that it can't issue receipts for something you technically didn't pay.

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@bp-elec1 wrote:

GSP costs too much - takes too long and because they do not issue a legal receipt I feel it is a scam and open to abuse by ebay and PB employees.  Without a legal paper-trail for the money that the buyer pays the seller thru GSP we have no actual proof that the taxes they say are paid are actually paid to the Canadian or any other government agency.

---

The GSP can cost too much for items that can ship just fine by letter post, but the GSP isn't a letter post service.  To borrow AF's style of comparison, what Canadian buyers are paying for is Lincoln Continental service (and we know how reliable Lincolns are) when a classic Volkswagen will do the job just fine.

The money isn't all paid to the seller, either.  Remember, while the buyer may make one payment, it gets split between the seller and Pitney Bowes.  GSP items travel as commercial freight between Kentucky and the Canadian destination hub.  The nature of commercial freight shipments is that they don't get released by (or through) customs until taxes/duty are paid on them or there's some sort of guarantee that they will be paid, so these concerns about them not being paid are misplaced.

How do you know for sure that your local brick and mortar retailer is remitting the sales tax(es) you pay on your purchases, by the way?

[pjcdn2005]

How do you know for sure that your local brick and mortar retailer is remitting the sales tax(es) you pay on your purchases, by the way?

A person may not know for sure but at least there is a paper trail and the receipt states the various amounts paid for each service. For example, if I go to a restaurant, my receipt will usually separate the dollar amount of goods purchased, sales tax and tip.

Regardless of the reasons as to why PB does not provide a similar receipt, do you really think that people shouldn't want to know how the money they are paying is being allocated?

[va1bob]

I will not use the program.  I pay no duty or taxes on vintage equipment when shipped by USPS from the US to me in Canada.

The Global Shipping Program puts costs so high that I don't bid.  Sellers lose, because I am a high and determined bidder.  Soon, I will not use ebay any more - I consider these charges to be a gouge to the buyer in Canada.  Do they think we are stupid enough to swallow this?  If I cannot get direct USPS shipping, then I do not bid.  Ebay used to be fun and economical; now it is neither.  Am I clear?  Thanks, Bob McGrath, NS, Canada.

[marnotom!]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

How do you know for sure that your local brick and mortar retailer is remitting the sales tax(es) you pay on your purchases, by the way?

A person may not know for sure but at least there is a paper trail and the receipt states the various amounts paid for each service. For example, if I go to a restaurant, my receipt will usually separate the dollar amount of goods purchased, sales tax and tip.

Regardless of the reasons as to why PB does not provide a similar receipt, do you really think that people shouldn't want to know how the money they are paying is being allocated?

---

Well, if you're going to go back to the food analogies, if I get a restaurant receipt I don't get to see how much went toward the bun, patty and each individual vegetable, condiment and other topping on my hamburger.

Pitney Bowes regards the "import charges" as a package deal or hamburger, and that's what seems to be tripping up a lot of people here.  

If people want a different sort of receipt, they should buy from sellers using a service that doesn't forward their packages.  Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Having said that, I'd be interested in knowing from anybody how taxes are itemized on commercial freight imports in a way where the recipient can claim input tax credits.  I've been giving this page from the Canada Revenue Agency website a quick go-over, and my conclusions so far is that example 6 is the closest scenario to that of a GSP shipment.  However, I'm also interpreting the recipient as being the Canadian hub operating under PBI's name, not the eBay buyer as the buyer is not considered "importer of record":

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/gl/p-125/p-125-e.html

[00nevermind00]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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Well, if you're going to go back to the food analogies, if I get a restaurant receipt I don't get to see how much went toward the bun, patty and each individual vegetable, condiment and other topping on my hamburger.

Pitney Bowes regards the "import charges" as a package deal or hamburger, and that's what seems to be tripping up a lot of people here.  

If people want a different sort of receipt, they should buy from sellers using a service that doesn't forward their packages.  Seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

---

You're arguing for the sake of arguing here. I'm sure you know that there is a difference between knowing how much of your bill went towards taxes as opposed to what percentage of it went to the bun, the patty and the trimmings.

The lack of an itemized statement has been a sore point with buyers from the beginning, as these endless threads will attest. What's more, I think that it explains, at least in part, the accusations of "gouging", "scam" and "ripoff" that are also not exactly in short supply. When people pay what they see as an inflated amount and they are not told which percentage of it pays for what, they're not particularly inclined to give the "service" provider the benefit of the doubt.

[marnotom!]

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@00nevermind00 wrote:

You're arguing for the sake of arguing here. I'm sure you know that there is a difference between knowing how much of your bill went towards taxes as opposed to what percentage of it went to the bun, the patty and the trimmings.

The lack of an itemized statement has been a sore point with buyers from the beginning, as these endless threads will attest. What's more, I think that it explains, at least in part, the accusations of "gouging", "scam" and "ripoff" that are also not exactly in short supply. When people pay what they see as an inflated amount and they are not told which percentage of it pays for what, they're not particularly inclined to give the "service" provider the benefit of the doubt.

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There's a description in the GSP buyer terms and conditions page (section 3) that describes what may go into the "import charges."  It's going to vary, of course, depending on the nature of the item and its value.  Those are the ingredients of the GSP hamburger.

Given that when a GSP listing is set up properly the amount above and beyond taxes and duty is more often than not less than five bucks, I suspect those accusations of the program being a "ripoff," etc. are for listings where the seller hasn't set things up properly and the import charges carry unnecessary or inflated duty charges.  That is, when the buyer actually understands that taxes and duty can and must be paid on an import that's not shipped through the postal system, and I don't think as many buyers them do understand this as much as you and I would like to believe otherwise.

Then there's the issue of the import charges not showing up in search results, and I suspect that some complaints are from buyers who based their decision to purchase an item strictly on the search results page and not the listing page.

[mmorfesis]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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@dee_doo wrote:

By Canadian law, they do cannot charge import taxes on an item less than $20, but Pitney Bowes sometimes does...  And i'm quite certain the government never see the color of that money...

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Remember, that amount is twenty bucks Canadian, not twenty bucks U.S.

And there are some items that don't qualify for the $20 exemption.  Books, for example.

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I've received US items with $200+ values declared and still did not pay any duties or taxes.  Not all items imported are charged extra, only the ones that are randomly pulled.  They'd have to hire everyone in Canada to look at every package's paperwork.