About Chicago: The Black Hole

[sylviebee]

Does anyone have information about the following is getting handled by Paypal?

I shipped an item about 30 days ago and it was shipped via Tracked Packet and has been sitting in Chicago since May 8th.

The buyer is threatening to open a Paypal claim for non arrival but since it was shipped with tracking which shows that it's in Chicago does anyone know how PP is handling that type of claim at this time?  Are they cutting us some slack?

The buyer is really worrisome because for her it was a very expensive item so she's hyper-nervous and in those situations people do some wonky things.

[silverpinups]

Here's a post from PayPal extending protections through the end of April/20. I don't know if they extended protections beyond this date.

 https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/PayPal-Support-during-Covid-19/m-p/436571

Why doesn't the buyer open a claim through eBay? I had a package sit at the Chicago Distribution Center for 21 days before there was another tracking update. Sometimes signing up for tracking updates on Canada Post Tracking and USPS Tracking seems to help nudge the package along...

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

@sylviebee 

A parcel I sent with tracked around the 10th of April for NYC from Calgary, (8 days from Calgary to Richmond) arrived at LAX around the 22nd. Next scan was the 27th(April). Nothing since. Completely dropped off the radar. Unfortunately with MIA shipments they do everything in their power(Canadapost) to have you hold on as long as possible and lately moreso. I opened a ticket on May 13th. No followup from them since the original receipt of ticket. In calling them last Thursday/Friday they are still telling me to hold on and that they have had NO response from USPS. If its not there by now, it's lost. Possibly lost in the same Black Hole as your parcel. Customers can only be so understanding and this particular parcel was required for a secondary customer. It's going to be be the standard 100 Insurance plus actual shipping after a full refund. Still going to be out a few on this sale. Best of luck with your situation.  We can always hope these kind of packages eventually arrive and customers are honest enough to let the seller know.

-Lotz

[femmefan1946]

Why doesn't the buyer open a claim through eBay?

Well, from the seller's point of view, starting with Paypal means if the customer loses, she cannot then go to eBay's Money Back Guarantee. 

But if she starts with eBay, and loses, PP will still consider the Dispute.

And if the purchase was PP backed with a credit card, that is the third level of appeal, but a lost chargeback means no help from PP or eBay.

EBay gives only 30 days from last estimated date of delivery.  Has that window closed?

PP allows 180 days from Payment.

Credit cards differ.

[sylviebee]

Thanks.  I tried to sign up for email notifications but even though the system allows me to add addresses for notifications I can't find the actual link to to receive the emails.

I did start a trace this morning.

[sylviebee]

It's actually not an eBay item but since this is the place for the most informed information I posted here.

This transaction is uber-complicated.  It was a layaway and the first payment was made over 7 months ago.

That means that if she actually files a PP claim some of the payments were made over 90 days ago so no longer eligible for buyer protection.

However, I did insure for the full value via InsurePost but if it comes to actually having to file a claim things will get complicated because she made about 6 payments.

To complicate things ever more some payments were in $US and some in $Can funds.

Sure hope they haven't lost this one.

[reallynicestamps]

And again, as I understand it, if Paypal were to accept her Claim, it would not be on all those payments, only on the payment she disputes.

If it is within the past 180 * days from that payment.

Sigh.

This is why layaway is a bad idea for the buyer (and the seller but....).

And why I won't do it.

If her bank won't trust her with a credit card, which would allow her to pay me, then pay the card at her leisure, why should I be her bank?

Hindsight is 20/20.

You gotta love someone who feels it appropriate to make the seller wait for seven months to get paid, then complains when her (tracked and in transit!) parcel is late.

*Did the 90 days come from the other site? Because PP allows a full six months from payment for disputes.

[sylviebee]

Yikes.  I didn't realize that PP allows 6 months.

This was a private sale and didn't involve a venue.

I'm rethinking layaways.  I've done several and all of them have been drawn out way beyond anything that's reasonable from start to finish.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

Follow up on NY shipment with tracked sent April 10th from Calgary.

Received a message today (July 6,2020) from the buyer advising me that this long lost shipment had finally arrived. According to USPS tracking it shows it arrived in NY on the 16th and delivered June 18th. So total transit time 10 weeks as per USPS.

As per notes in Canadapost tracking the following tag was added.

Delivery progress Information updated: July 6

June 18 8:57 AM - Item Successfully delivered  11413 USA

Item successfully delivered

June 18 8:57 am June 18 8:57 am

Item successfully delivered

Making actual transit time almost 3 months. So if you have a package that has disappeared into any sort of a Black Hole....Official or otherwise, it may show up....Eventually. This particular situation appears to be a case of delivery status update tinkering to the 10th degree. Because of the urgency for this particular parcel I signed up for package tracking updates for both myself and the buyer and to date, nothing has ever arrived. Please stay tuned.

-Lotz

[esclyons]

and again, ebay is saying nothing .. but they are allowing money to be refunded to buyers.. for late delivery's.. This has to stop..

Canada post stopped all delivery guarantee's almost 3 months ago,, so as seller's we have no re course against the postal system that is failing us, so we need eBay to step up and help us out.

Please eBay hear us???  the postal system is still failing.. do something..

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

@esclyons 

Sadly it's the postal systems in many countries and from my chat with Canadapost the different services are not on speaking terms. And if eBay is not proactive with updating anything it makes this bad situation worse.

-Lotz

[marnotom!]

---

@esclyons wrote:

Canada post stopped all delivery guarantee's almost 3 months ago,, so as seller's we have no re course against the postal system that is failing us, so we need eBay to step up and help us out.

---

I think eBay is trying to assist sellers as much as possible here, but its hands are largely tied.  Canada Post may have suspended delivery guarantees, but from what I can see, its delivery standards have not changed, and this is on what eBay bases its shipping time estimates.

https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/PGdeliverystds-e.asp

eBay can't change delivery time estimates based on Canada Post statements to the effect that delays are occurring.  Sellers, however, can change their handling time and/or stated delivery method and tweak with the DTE with these changes.

Please don't take this as a lack of sympathy on my part.  I do know this is a very awkward and stressful state of affairs for you, but unfortunately eBay can't wave a magic wand and fix Canada Post or any other carrier for that matter.  The carrier is ultimately the seller's choice and it's the seller who has to make most of the adjustments.

[hlmacdon]

Customers have already cottoned on to how to take advantage of this. Wait till the latest eta has passed, open an INR, and wait for your refund. No movement in 10 days and the seller is out the money and ebay washes their hands regardless if you refund or they force the refund. 

As marnotom! notes the best we can do is lengthen our delivery ETAs through handling times and shipping options as ebay is not offering any protection despite the obvious nature of international delays at the moment. Pretty much every ISC in the US is backed up with multiple containers of product and there is no first in first out system.

If a delivery service isn't offering delivery guarantees or has advised they unable to meet service standards then refunding money forcibly is a pretty poor way to be treating sellers. 10 days without movement means precisely nothing these days.

[pjcdn2005]

I'm sure that at one time that Paypal didn't have buyer protection if more than one payment was made for a purchase. I sort of remember them changing that a couple of years ago and I don't see it under buyer protection now so that rule may no longer be valid.