Article about buyers scamming sellers and how some resolved it - Typical Ebay gobble de **bleep**

[dutchman48]

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/may/21/ebay-accused-failing-sellers-buyers-manipulate-system-...

[momcqueen]

Interesting story. 

[2nd-time-around-jewelry]

This has been an ongoing problem with eBay for years, where dishonest buyers scam sellers. And it looks like from the article, the only time eBay did something was when it was brought to their attention by an outside source. They need to change their policy quickly or they will lose a lot of sellers who do not feel safe selling on eBay.

[hlmacdon]

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@dustmite007 wrote:

This has been an ongoing problem with eBay for years, where dishonest buyers scam sellers. And it looks like from the article, the only time eBay did something was when it was brought to their attention by an outside source. They need to change their policy quickly or they will lose a lot of sellers who do not feel safe selling on eBay.

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The problem is ebay relies too heavily on algorithms to manage things. The problem is not unique to ebay either, chargebacks can be abused and other marketplaces are even more strict/punitive to the seller. The problem has gotten worse as chargebacks began to be marketed as an additional marketplace feature and more readily facilitated through a retail venue rather than a payment processor/card issuing company. Where ebay fails is automating the process too much via algorithms or shunting it off to contracted call center employees who don't have latitude.

I've dealt with enough call ins on obviously fraudulent activity and the supervisors/specialists I have spoken to allude to part of the issue being the number of occasions a buyer can put in claims before their account is flagged and that buyers are given far more latitude. I will say if you can get through to the right person I've often felt fairly treated. It isn't an easy balance as there are plenty of disreputable sellers as well. Taobao (a large marketplace in China) had a novel system where a seller could see how many times a buyer had requested a refund or return. I thought that was an interesting approach.

[momcqueen]

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hlmacdon wrote:.... The problem is ebay relies too heavily on algorithms to manage things. The problem is not unique to ebay either, chargebacks can be abused and other marketplaces are even more strict/punitive to the seller. The problem has gotten worse as chargebacks began to be marketed as an additional marketplace feature and more readily facilitated through a retail venue rather than a payment processor/card issuing company. Where ebay fails is automating the process too much via algorithms or shunting it off to contracted call center employees who don't have latitude.

I've dealt with enough call ins on obviously fraudulent activity and the supervisors/specialists I have spoken to allude to part of the issue being the number of occasions a buyer can put in claims before their account is flagged and that buyers are given far more latitude. I will say if you can get through to the right person I've often felt fairly treated. It isn't an easy balance as there are plenty of disreputable sellers as well. Taobao (a large marketplace in China) had a novel system where a seller could see how many times a buyer had requested a refund or return. I thought that was an interesting approach.

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I have to agree with you there. I feel as if there is a systematic failure at the lowest level of transaction management compounded by underpaid and untrained Call Centre employees. 

[brettjet38]

“When I looked at the buyers’ feedback other sellers all told the same story,” she says. “The buyer claimed the item didn’t arrive but eBay gave a refund, even on items that were signed for. Worse, the buyer has been reported to eBay three times before for this and no action has been taken. They are free to keep buying items and claiming back the money – essentially stealing – and eBay is not doing anything about it.”

Says everything you need to know in one paragraph!

[brettjet38]

Just posted this very good article to my Google+ , Twitter, Pinterest streams. Oh and Flipboard too

We should all re-post this everywhere

[rose-dee]

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@hlmacdon wrote:

Taobao (a large marketplace in China) had a novel system where a seller could see how many times a buyer had requested a refund or return. I thought that was an interesting approach.

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Now that's something I wouldn't mind seeing on eBay.  It seems fair enough to expect buyers to be reasonable about returns and refunds.  And courageous of the site to display such information. 

On the other hand, how often would a seller have an opportunity to see that information prior to a sale, if the intent is to allow some sort of vetting of buyers by sellers?  It's not much good to know you may be dealing with a problem buyer once the money has already changed hands. 

[brettjet38]

No but it would allow Sellers to be proactive in preparing the Buyers purchase.

Film your hands packing the item, ship it only with tracking & be prepared to "rumble" if required.

[momcqueen]

Plus if buyers knew their underwear was going to be showing in public, they'd keep their underwear clean.

[brettjet38]

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/ebay-car-cloning-scam-costing-124509478.html eBay - feeBay - scamBay - not what it used to beBay!

[brettjet38]

http://www.inquisitr.com/4233612/scammers-manipulate-ebay-system-to-defraud-sellers-ebay-accused-of-... Another POV on an endemic issue on this site

[brettjet38]

http://www.inquisitr.com/4233612/scammers-manipulate-ebay-system-to-defraud-sellers-ebay-accused-of-... An ongoing issue eBay refuses to tackle THIS is from 2013!??

[reallynicestamps]

Film your hands packing the item,... be prepared to "rumble" if required.

Nope.

If you want to take the issue to court, it might be accepted as evidence.

But film can be edited.

And videos taken from YouTube or elsewhere.

Electronically visible tracking is all that eBay will accept.

I understand that Paypal will accept electronic proof of shipping.

The 'electronic' part is important. Registered Mail does not have electronic proof of delivery and is not accepted for that reason.

And over $750CDN both demand Signature Proof of Delivery.

Having working in B&M retail for many years, I am sanguine about shoptheft.

Prevention is better than prosecution.

Blocking categories of bidders (unreliable destinations, deadbeats, bidders w/o PP accounts) is a basic step.

Using Fixed Price/Immediate Payment Required is helpful in some categories.

Cookie Jar Insurance is a third.

And tracking is another.

[rose-dee]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

Blocking categories of bidders (unreliable destinations, deadbeats, bidders w/o PP accounts) is a basic step.

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On a related subject, I blocked buyers without Paypal accounts for years, thinking it offered protection without adversely affecting sales, but after reading what a number of sellers have said, I'm not sure anymore that it's a wise decision.  It's claimed that such a block is no longer justified or necessary in terms of the current payment flows on eBay, and that using it will bar buyers who would like to use eBay's credit card payment features.  

I'm really not completely clear on what the connection is, how precisely it affects the payment flow, and if (or to what extent) such a block would affect sales, but I've removed it from my preferences just in case.  

Mind you, I'm one of those fortunate sellers who has mostly lovely, honest buyers.  

As an aside, what a laugh that eBay's bots bleeped out part of the word "gobbledegook" because the computer didn't recognize that that string of letters should have correctly been part of a longer word in the context of the subject line.  As a former (human) translator, I always feel a certain vindicated delight in seeing such contextual muck-ups by programmed robots.  This is what happens when you let computers loose on language. 

[pjcdn2005]

I'm really not completely clear on what the connection is, how precisely it affects the payment flow, and if (or to what extent) such a block would affect sales, but I've removed it from my preferences just in case.

Buyers without a PP account can pay for a purchase through PP by using their credit card.  Blocking buyers without  a PP account blocks those buyer from purchasing your items.  There is no payment flow because there is no purchase.

For various reasons a buyer with a PP account may not want their eBay and PP accounts linked.  Blocking users without a PP account also blocks those users because their account isn't associated with a specific PP account.

I do not think that this block was any more necessary or helpful years ago than it is now.  It's been suggested in the past that if the block  wasn't used people could purchase your item and then not be able to pay with a cc unless the seller had a merchant account.  IF this was ever true I don't think it has been for a very long time as PP has accepted cc payments without a pp account for quite a while. 

[femmefan1946]

The only reason I would suggest it is that some sellers are (wrongly-IMO) adamant that they don't want newbie buyers and 0FB and guest buyers are the least likely to have active PP accounts.

I don't think it's a good idea. But if they don't want to sell stuff, fine. More customers for me.

Well, maybe I'm not a fancy gentleman like you, with your... very fine hat. But I do business. We're here for business.-- Captain Malcolm Reynolds