Does anyone else think the DSR system is a total and utter farce??

[coolthings123]

This system is totally dysfunctional.   Buyer leaves glowing feedback on one hand and torpedoes you with a bunch of 1's on a multiple purchase and there is nothing you can do about it.  eBay doesn't care.  In fact I think eBay is probably really happy when it happens because they make more money by not having to give you a discount on your final value fees.  I called customer support and wasted 10 minutes of my life.  Their solution was communicate more with the customer and ask them to leave positive comments and DSR ratings if they are happy.  They said it is okay for a customer to leave glowing feedback and yet leave a bunch of low rating numbers.  REALLY??   I have been doing this for over ten years and I am seriously considering calling it a day.  I have had maybe a handful of negatives over the past ten years but in reality these people were never going to be happy no matter what you did.  I can deal with that.  What I can't deal with anymore is the fact eBay doesn't seem to give a hoot about the sellers who in my view are the people making eBay rich.  Don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with eBay making money.  Everyone likes to make money.   What really irks me is in my view just about every eBay policy favours the buyer at the expense of the seller.  Maybe I am wrong.  Would really like to hear your opinion/horror stories relating to DSR.     

[pocomocomputing]

Honestly Pierre it sounds to me as if you are just regurgitating the eBay "party line."    I am fully aware eBay doesn't give feedback or DSR.  It does however choose to be judge, jury  and executioner when it comes to DSR ratings without so much as a trial for the seller.  I have never, ever,mentioned in any of my responses that I disagree with the feedback system.  I only disagree with the DSR because it is the thorn in the side of most sellers.  So, who cares about negatives received more than 12 months ago no longer counting.  In most cases it is irrelevant because in most cases the majority of good sellers might only have one or two negatives.  I also understand Trust is important.  Buyers should be able to figure the "reputation of a seller" and who they can trust by the feedback scores.  Otherwise there are enough other safeguards in place with buyer protection offered by both eBay and PayPal.  eBay does not need to punish the sellers for making a "mistake," if in fact it was a mistake or perhaps in reality it was an unreasonable buyer leaving unrealistic ratings on the DSR. 

The DSR system allows for mistakes. There is not much leeway but it is there.

[westernstargifts]

This morning when I logged onto ebay I found I had received 5 new feedback.  I read the comments and was happy that I had 5 more satisfied customers!

Then I checked my DSR's and found that someone had left a low rating right across the board.  Looking at all feedback received in the past few days I could find no indication that any of the buyers would leave a low rating in any category.  I can understand if a buyer has a problem with one aspect of the transaction, but all 4?

I believe that buyers should not be able to leave a low rating without contacting the seller first.  They need to somehow be accountable for the ratings they leave just as we are held accountable to provide good service.

Sellers should be made aware of the reason for the low ratings so they can fix it.  Presently we can only wonder what we did wrong, what the buyer perceived we did wrong, whether or not the buyer understood how to properly USE DSR's, or whether it was another seller out to trash the competition.

There is nothing there that will help the seller to improve or to resolve an issue.

[coolthings123]

Really pocomocomputing?    Come back and talk to me when you lose your Top Seller rating because a disgruntled buyer or two leave low DSR ratings.  Then we will see how well you think the system works.   

[zoomrr69]

The DSR system is designed to fail...

You will never get 100%............

Never.....

I sell 100 items and get 2 feedbacks..

both negatives..

ebay sees the 2 feedbacks...but doesn't see the total number of transactions...only on their invoice..

The punishment is based on the feedbacks received and the DSR ratings..

Totally wrong...

.

Keep the rating system...but use it that way only..

Just as a rating system...

STOP the punishment..............

AND bring back the negative...

for both buyer and seller....

[i*m-still-here]

For the most part the regular posters to this board represent ebay at its best.

When you come here to complain about getting FB/DSRs trashed, it's almost always not deserved.

 In Canada we're pretty much a "nice" community, but if you are over 18 with a bank account you're good to go.   Everyone is here. 

When I buy here I often try to picture the other person, but I can't because individuals like that are just not on my radar.

I've exchanged emails with some doozies.

Every watch the TV show Cops?  They're here too. …………. buying, selling, and often behaving very very badly.

Other sites don't draw the masses the way ebay does, and as such ebay had to find some way to control them (or least ebay thought it did).

I'm not sure why, but this rating system does work quite well to reign them in.

That's why the system is in place.
Not so much for you…………. It's to keep the unruly masses under control.

The best sellers are casualties of a system designed to keep the masses under control.

[pierrelebel]

"The best sellers are casualties of a system"

Who are those "best sellers"?

When I look at the top sellers on eBay (in terms of volume) many names come to mind and, surprise surprise, most are not TRS, caused by too many low DSRs

Take a look at jayandmarie.  Over one million feedback.  Yet not TRS.

Do they really care? No.  They take the money and smile. 🙂

[i*m-still-here]

""When I look at the top sellers on eBay (in terms of volume) many names come to mind and, surprise surprise, most are not TRS, caused by too many low DSRs."""

That is precisely my point.

(Surprise surprise to me too:  I'm not sure if you are supporting my observations by accident by or by design???)

[pierrelebel-canada]

By the way, I am not a TRS.  I do not get the 20% rebate on FVF (yet).

I understand the system and live with it.

Like most sellers, I am here to sell and receive money for my products, not an ego trip through DSRs.  Feedback is nice but not what selling online is all about.

[pjcdn2005]

I sell 100 items and get 2 feedbacks..

both negatives..

ebay sees the 2 feedbacks...but doesn't see the total number of transactions...only on their invoice..

The punishment is based on the feedbacks received and the DSR ratings..

Totally wrong...

DSR ratings are based on the total number of transactions, not on the total number of feedback given

[froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock]

Wow, the fact that this string has almost more posts than anything else must say something about how sore a subject the DSR system is with sellers - no kidding!

DSRs probably have a place on eBay, but IMHO, there are serious problems with the DSR concept as it now stands:

1) The DSR system is skewed against the smaller seller (and for that matter, almost any Canadian seller).  As one poster importantly pointed out, multinational sellers of cheap whatnots with thousands of transactions can mitigate shoddy salesmanship statistically.

2) Allowing buyers to rate sellers on anything to do with shipping after they (the buyers) have agreed to the cost and the item has been shipped is ludicrous and irrational.  It turns DSRs into simply a ranting forum for buyers.

3) Buyers have no real grasp of how critical those little stars are to sellers.  They either hit all "5s" robotically to get it over with if they're relatively happy, or they use the tool as punishment, often for elements of the transaction completely out of a seller's control.  I've seen my numbers fall in the "shipping cost" section despite the fact that I almost always provide my buyers with a discount on shipping.

4) DSRs are not linked to FB.  A buyer can post positive FB and blast a seller in DSRs, and vice-versa.  This is completely illogical.

5) The only DSRs that should count toward a seller's overall rating should be "Item as Described" and (possibly) "Communication" (perhaps weighted lower than "IAD" overall).

6)  EBay is too draconian with their DSR limits - it should instead recognize that buyers are much more flippant than sellers are where DSRs are concerned, and give sellers more leeway when tallying their performance.

My suggestions to eBay are (is anyone out there listening????)

(1) Get rid of DSRs that allow buyers to rate shipping time and shipping costs.  You've done enough to curtail outrageous shipping charges by hitting sellers with FVFs on shipping.  Don't punish us twice for matters beyond our control. 

(2)  Link the DSRs logically to the FB once the FB has been entered -- if a buyer leaves negative FB, then leaves 4 or 5 star DSRs, oblige him to revise his FB to positive, without any text.  If he leaves positive FB, allow him to only leave 4+ DSR points.

(3) Don't permit multiple DSR entries for a single combined shipping transaction, ever;

(4) Lastly, have a simple DSR that rates overall satisfaction with the transaction and the seller's service;

Surely eBay, your computers can handle this!

hello mr hammer, meet mr nail.

Too bad the position of CEO has already been filled. Seriously. This is it in a nutshell. 

The only thing I would add, as it happened to me, I was penalized for too many 'not as described claims, and then hit again for Low DSR's. Do they not realize that they are penalizing twice for the same infractions? It was the same people who started the 'not as described' claims that left 1's for 'item as described'

[my-june]

Yes, I do!!

[the_urbanguru]

Amen Brother, I couldn't agree more...!

I just finished a rather long winded articulate rant of my experience in regard to the feedback & DSR system on eBay. Fortunately I've spared you all of my plight as this window wouldn't allow cut & paste from word perfect? (I'm sure it wasn't an intentional bug created by the eBay website programmers)

At any rate my rant rendered down to one simple question for eBay...

Why so much weight is put behind a feedback system that is completely voluntary!, the comments are not required to be valid, deserving or even true!? The feedback just can't violate eBay Policy ~ So a disgruntled buyer can leave neg. f/b, trash talk the seller, and flat out lie, but as long as they don't use your name, use expletives or make reference to a possible eBay/Paypal investigation ~ then it's all good... Nice Policy???

[cumos55]

Ratings are left when feedback is left.

Ratings enter your record on the basis of when an item was sold..

Five feedback today... Five different sales days... most likely....

[jennyra]

Yes, especially the DSR'S FOR SHIPPING.  We do not make money on shipping especially when you take into consideration, the cost of supplies such as boxes, peanuts, bubble wrap etc. Add on to that Ebay now charges us a commission on shipping. Plus we include the cost of insurance. We can actually lose on shipping but anyone even someone who leaves a glowing positive feed back can leave a 1 even if you make nothing on the shipping.  At one time Ebay allowed someone who received free shipping to leave a 1.  At least they took that stupid rule away.  Maybe they will wise up and realize the DSR's for shipping should be dropped all together.  The person who bids or buys an item knows up front exactly what they will be paying.  If they don't like it, don't buy it.  It's not like we are hiding any costs.  They can leave a 1 even if a seller offers calculated shipping.  I am sure there are many buyers who don't have a clue how much shipping costs and shipping costs are continuing to rise.  My average sales on Ebay are around 5000 dollars.  I just received my first 1 DSR on shipping costs.  Have no idea why.because I do not overcharge for shipping. I am only allowed 3 in a 12 month period.  If I get more than that, I lose my 20 per cent discount which adds up when you sell between 5 and 7 thousand a month. But as a silver power seller I have absolutely no recourse.  We can't even talk to the person who left it.  At least with a negative we are aware of who left it. Last  year I tried the free shipping thing, but lost too much money.  Sometimes, I offer free shipping.   but you can't always do that. I sell collectibles and it depends on how much you paid for the item.  Ebay needs to drop the DSR rating for shipping.  It is unfair to sellers. 

[brandeentertainment]

I wouldn't mind seeing Neutral for buyers ... Neg is not really a good idea because then when a buyer is really getting shafted and leaves a neg they will just get one back for no reason..

i have never seen a buyer I would want to give a Neg to ... maybe a wake up call but not a neg...

So neutral does not affect ratings and sellers can noticeably state thing like buyer did not pay etc..

I really think giving the ability to give buyers negs just creates a childish game between many buyers and sellers but I do understand wanting to let other know buyer was this or that...

I mean a buyer buys but doesn't pay your only out listing fees and the day i start getting mad about a few pennies is the day I go to anger managment LOL..

DSR System should just be gone I think it is just a way for ebay to control things and punish good sellers because of bad buyers... "Not always the case"

[kashka]

I have had 100 per cent feedback,straight 5's across the board for years.Last week buyer leaves a soft positive saying it was 2 weeks late.Canada to Arizona in 8 business days.Buyer was aware thru the listing,thru my "item sent' email what the time frame was..Got a 1 on the shipping time anyways.Seen thru her feedback left for others she often leaves snarky little comments but gives positive feedback and probably uses Ebay astronomy to stick the needle in to the seller...She was some upset when she found out she was reported..lol.

Yeah..DSRs suck..in theory,they could be good but not with all the whack jobs out there now.

[pierrelebel]

jennyra - I am a bit puzzled by your comments.

Your DSRs are well above average.

You are based in the USA.  I checked several of your listings and none of them offered a shipping cost outside the USA.

Your listings read: " International bidders are subject to a 1% handling fee. Shipping outside the United States must be insured at the buyers expense and will be by USPS Priority Mail only- no First Class International."

On that basis, yes I can see why a few international buyers feel they are being overcharged.  It is not a matter of what you pay or the fact you make no profit on shipping, it is the fact buyers end up paying more than necessary.

The DSR system is far from perfect and relies on buyers making a fair and informed decision.  Unfortunately that is not always the case.

Based on your feedback, the majority of your sales are domestic (USA). If you are not prepared to specify shipping costs in your listings for international buyers, absorb the insurance in your costs (as required by eBay policy) and offer international buyers (including Canadians) cheaper shipping options it may be best for you to refrain from selling outside the USA.  It would help maintain your above average DSRs.

[almond_t]

Re the same statement Pierre ( I must say spelling it 'P*****’ is MUCH more debonair;) ) just highlighted ~ I was browsing the seller's listings ( and there are some pretty neat items!) but when I checked on shipping details, I, too, was put off by the insurance blurb.  

'I'  don't require  insurance myself, so I sure as heck don't wish to pay for it for someone else, especially when it's solely for their benefit, not mine.  The priority shipping only was also a deal breaker, unless it was for an item I couldn't live without and succumbed to seller insistence.

These would be moot points if I was in the US, but I'm not...and I'm not the only Canadian checking out their listings.  There might be other potential buyers gently hitting the back button and moving on to more CDN-friendly sellers.

The seller probably wasn't looking for feedback from other posters, but if it's useful, it might be worth reading.  There are a lot of us Canadians out there... ( not to mention that a high percentage of those reading this board ( and bonus - being explicitly exposed to this seller's listings!) are Canadian,  so the seller's comments/TOS take on more importance than ever in this venue.

JMPO

[rose-dee]

jennyra - I am a bit puzzled by your comments.

 Your listings read: " International bidders are subject to a 1% handling fee. Shipping outside the United States must be insured at the buyers expense and will be by USPS Priority Mail only- no First Class International."

On that basis, yes I can see why a few international buyers feel they are being overcharged.  It is not a matter of what you pay or the fact you make no profit on shipping, it is the fact buyers end up paying more than necessary.

The point is being missed that a seller who clearly displays shipping charges should not be able to be negatively impacted by a buyer leaving poor DSRs for shipping costs when the buyer is aware of, and has agreed to those costs in advance.  It is completely illogical for eBay to permit a buyer to leave complaints (low DSRs) after the fact about what is effectively a 'signed' contract. 

A buyer would only be entitled to complain about paying more than necessary if he/she were to be charged more for shipping and handling than stated in the listing (which is not allowed in any case). 

This seller lists a number of very fragile and valuable articles.  The only way to protect herself against damage claims is to use a faster service (less handling = less potential for breakage) with insurance. 

If that is a decision the seller makes for her business and is willing to forego sales to buyers who don't like paying for premium shipping, then those buyers will look elsewhere, pay $5 to ship a bone china cup and risk having it arrive broken (or not at all). 

The buyer who accepts the terms of sale should not be permitted to later punish the seller in DSRs because the buyer thinks he was perhaps a fool to have paid so much.  Aha! I can blame the seller, not my own stupidity or carelessness!

Sorry, I think it's time for the DSRs on shipping costs to GO...... --->>>>>>

[pierrelebel]

"The point is being missed that a seller who clearly displays shipping charges"

Missed?